Good call, Dave! It makes sense to wait awhile before focusing on scenery. I also will look various factors--speeds, locomotives, directions, etc.
Even if it looks good once the track goes down, the ultimate test is when you start running things.
MisterBeasleyWhat do you use for subroadbed?
I don't use subroadbed. Just bench work, then roadbed mixed with woodland scenic ballast, then track. Using track spikes to hold the track in place every so many holes (I don't spike every hole).
I would suggest AT LEAST three months of operating the way you plan to, alone or with a group of friends before doing scenery. This will find most problems with track and wiring, and mat suggest places for another spur or two.
Easier than removing ballast, scenery, etc.
Make trees, paint figures, etc for future use.
Dave
rrinker Which is why for curves, I solder two piece of flex together before forming the curve. It doesn't take much of a kink or wiggle to cause a long rigid wheelbase like a 4-8-4 steamer to have issues, even though the nominal curve radius is plenty to handle it. --Randy
Which is why for curves, I solder two piece of flex together before forming the curve. It doesn't take much of a kink or wiggle to cause a long rigid wheelbase like a 4-8-4 steamer to have issues, even though the nominal curve radius is plenty to handle it.
--Randy
Randy,
You bring up about soldering two pieces of track together to form a curve. That was one of the hardest things I had to overcome mentally when on the 1st layout. After doing it a few times, I realized that it was actually quite easy. The worry was how the tracks would stay together even with the curve.
Thanks all for the helpful advice. A lot to consider. One thing I won't do is jump into the scenery until I test the layout continually. It's very easy to concclude all is good and then realize there's a problem once the scenery is in place.
What do you use for subroadbed? I use pink foam with WS foam roadbed. I take paper clips and unbend them to a U shape. Then I use those to hold both track and roadbed in place. This can last for years while I test the track itself and its configuration.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
bearman CMStPnp, I am not sure what you are describing when you talk about sectional pieces. First, are you using foam or cork? Second, are you saying that you cut the foam longitudinally so that the rails are situated right at the edge of the roadbed where is drops off into the bevel leaving a thin "space" under the rails down the middle of the track? And, if this is the case is there something that the spikes can grab onto?
CMStPnp, I am not sure what you are describing when you talk about sectional pieces. First, are you using foam or cork? Second, are you saying that you cut the foam longitudinally so that the rails are situated right at the edge of the roadbed where is drops off into the bevel leaving a thin "space" under the rails down the middle of the track? And, if this is the case is there something that the spikes can grab onto?
I use the woodland scenics black foam roadbed. Yes I cut the rectangular pieces longitudinally so that the foam does not extend out further than the rails and so the end of the ties from the rails outward are suspended in space. The spikes are from microengineering, I think they are 1/2 inch or maybe 3/8 but long enough they go through the foam and into the benchwork to anchor both. I used the mirco-engineering spike driver pliers that has notches in it for the spike head for the better grip. Also use the center pre-existing holes in Atlas track instead of drilling my own. I never pre-drill anything, the spike does it all.
With this method you do have to be a little careful with the spike driving on curves, you want to drive the spike just enough to hold the track to the foam but not enough to compress the foam.....if you don't do that you will end up with uneven track......especially with sectional rails. I always run my hand and then trains over to test the track to make sure it is level, no rough joints. I have a dremel to grind down any rough joints.
The reason I like this method is you can crop the ballast closer to the ties not worrying about the extended roadbed extending under and outward from them. I think it looks better too as it emphasizes the elevation of the rail more because the sides of the ballast fall off steeper vs. gradual.
So one effect of this of course is you have an elevated mainline, then you can do a underused siding / branch line with say with thinner foam or right to the benchwork also a finer grade of ballast to differentiate between mainline and branchline or siding by track elevation. Again being careful here with the turnout to the branch line so it descends gracefully vs a sudden drop-off.
Try a section or two yourself, it looks pretty cool.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
riogrande5761 I secured my cork and track with Atlas track nails and/or MicroEngineering spikes. Then wired it. With that done, the track was down solid, no adhesives, but if it became necessary, I could remove the nails/spikes and relay the track at that stage. It isn't permanent until ballasted and the ballasted is glued in place. Ballast is done in the latter scenery stages. If you do things in that order, it gives you some flexiblity to make changes, while you are testing.
I secured my cork and track with Atlas track nails and/or MicroEngineering spikes. Then wired it.
With that done, the track was down solid, no adhesives, but if it became necessary, I could remove the nails/spikes and relay the track at that stage. It isn't permanent until ballasted and the ballasted is glued in place. Ballast is done in the latter scenery stages.
If you do things in that order, it gives you some flexiblity to make changes, while you are testing.
This is what I do as well. Though I do not use the cork or foam roadbed like everyone else. Instead I used a XACTO knife to cut it into sectional pieces and place the sectional pieces under the ties using the rails roughly as a boundry. Drive the Micro-Engineering spikes through the sectional pieces of roadbed. Then when everything is complete, I ballast the tracks using the ballast to fill in the gaps between the foam (BTW, you do not have to use Woodland Scenics cement for this, Elmers Glue diluted with water works as well). I like this method better than using the full width roadbed and although not as quiet as full roadbed, it is good enough for me. I really do not like working with the full width roadbed (too much of a hassle) and this is how I get some sound and vibration absorption and keep the roadbed out of the way. You will consume more ballast this way but also use less roadbed as well. You will get some vibration noise with this approach but only via a few locomotives. I like it better this way.
Drawing the center line is one thing, don;t need sweep sticks for that. But ME flex is tough to form a smooth curve - that's where problems happen that cause derailments. Other track like Atlas and to a lsightly lesser extent Peco naturally form smooth curves as you bend it, so the only place you have to really worry about mid-curve kinds is if there is a joint. Which is why for curves, I solder two piece of flex together before forming the curve. It doesn't take much of a kink or wiggle to cause a long rigid wheelbase like a 4-8-4 steamer to have issues, even though the nominal curve radius is plenty to handle it.
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Thanks Randy. The issue with RibbonRail and Sweep Sticks is needing to get for different radi. The far cheaper option is making my own tremmel with a 1x2 and drawing various curves on masonite. I then used a flexible drafting tool that bent around the curves. That served as a template for drawing on the foam. To each their own!
I wire and test as I go. Secure the cork, and after every few sections of track, run some equipment back and forth over the new section before moving on to the next part. The pushpins I use to hold the track while the caulk dries are small enough to not interfere with the couplers or mechanism, so I cna run locos over sections before the caulk is fully set, maling it easy to get it all aligned. Even if it's just a couple of clip leads on the rail to supply power.
Straight track is fairly easy to align - just sight down along it, any kinks or wobbles will be fairly obvious to the eye. Curces take a little practive to see if they are smoooth and continuous, but products like RibbonRail or Fast Tracks Sweep Sticks can help, especially with ME flex which is hard to form smooth curves with.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
mobilman44 One thing I might add and helped me in my testing process. Use the longest wheelbased loco (2-10-4) and the shortest (diesel switcher) as well as a few of your longest and regular length cars for the process. I also like to run the trains backwards as well as forward, and of course at slow and fast speeds.
One thing I might add and helped me in my testing process. Use the longest wheelbased loco (2-10-4) and the shortest (diesel switcher) as well as a few of your longest and regular length cars for the process. I also like to run the trains backwards as well as forward, and of course at slow and fast speeds.
So true about trying different locos, at different speeds, and directions. Running multiple tests avoids problems.
I also like the deliberate approach others mentioned. It's so easy to conclude that after a few tests using one variable, everything is ready for scenery. Sad having to alter plans once scenery's in place. Wonder what that's like
All good advice! You just can't test too much, and problems are obviously much easier to correct at this point as opposed to later.
This worked quite well for me, and I highly recommend it.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Color code your busses and your feeders. I only have two power districts and I used 14 AWG for the two busses and 18 AWG for the feeders, red to red, black to black. Proceed patiently and deliberately with the roadbed, the track and the wiring and it will pay off in trouble free operation later on.
That makes great sense to me. Besides, I can always adjust only the areas that have a derailment. Keeping the wiring simple ensures that any problems are isolated. Thanks much!
I rigged up a buzzer when I was wiring to make sure I did not reverse the polarity. And I did not test my track before I laid it using adhesive caulk and the only prolem I had is when it got out of gauge because of either expanding or contracting rails.
Suggestion on laying the roadbed (cork?) & track. It can, of course, be done in sections.
But in a section (or area), after securing the cork, don't add the track until sure it ls level enough, particularly at turnouts. Use a round bubble level and check that the cork is not only flat across, but also not "twisting" as it goes. I had a problem at a curved 7-1/2 HO turnout because I did not do the first step adequately. I "fixed" it by shimming the (slightly) glued turnout, but would have been better off if I had initially checked for this twisting out of level problem.
BTW, I secured my cork and track with Alex Plus latex, which I recommend. As an area was laid with cork and then track, it got wired so I could test run that section.
All this is ahead of your scenery addition. I have yet to complete my scenery, but have several excellent excuses.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
I kind of did what UncleButch did. I mean, how you going to accurately test your track if it's not fastened down?
I'd just do what you did the first time around, and keep in mind what you needed to change, that first time, and adjust accordingly. You'll still end up with areas you'll need to "tweak".
I did hold off on any scenery, except track elevation, untill I had the track work as "bullet proof" as I thought I could. I was anxious to get trains running!
Mike.
My You Tube
I wire and test as I go.Most problem will be at turnouts and curves.
If you use a caulk type glue; You can left track just a bit. and ''butter'' the under side. It don't tke mutch [caulk].
When I tore down the last layout, I found a few places still just sitting there.Must have forgot to go back and glue em.
Then again; after its ballested it ain't going nowhere.
Just my toughts
I would go ahead and secure the cork and the track and then wire it up. I assume that the 6 axle locomotive derailed because of tight curves. If you are running DCC, wire up one power district and test it before you wire the other one up. The problem I see is that if you do not secure the track and then wire it with a bus and feeders, you will still have issues securing the track later if you are going to use an adhesive.
What is a sound approach for testing the layout before adding scenery? I'm going to put down cork soon, and wasn't sure whether to glue it down or do that after I test the track. Should I use push pins to hold down the cork and have the ME track rest on top before wiring everything or do something else?
Another option is doing what I did on my 1st layout--secured the cork and track before wiring. Call it novice's luck that I didn't experience derailments, but had to adjust things greatly when I used a six-axle loco.
Thanks!