The Cab bus or Loconet should be as separate from the bus line as possible.
Another option I have seen works well for open grid benchwork, nail the bus wire around the layout to the risers for the track. No holes required. Drawback is once scenery is complete, wiring becomes difficult to access.
I would suggest running a Main Bus around the layout, using shower hooks and brass screw eyes (open ones) as described by Gerry Leone in Off The Rails. Shower hooks appear to be a huge time saver, are cheap and there is no need to riddle your benchwork with holes and then spend a whole bunch of time pulling wire. I would twist this main bus. Put a snubber at the end of this main bus.
From the main bus, I would run a sub-bus that taps off of the Main for each Power District. Install the Circuit breakers locally for each Power district at this point. Do not twist the sub-bus. Feeders tap off of the sub-bus only. Detection goes after the circuit breaker on the the non-twisted sub-bus/feeders.
Main bus 12 or 14 AWG stranded copper. You can step up to 12 AWG if it will not fit into your Command station connection.
Sub Bus 16 or 18 AWG stranded copper.
Feeders 22-24 AWG solid copper, smashed with pliers at end so they fit nicely onto the lower part of the web of the rail, or fed through copper ties and the ties soldered to the rail.
Lion rocks. That's what I'm considering.
No need to say more.......:
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Have Fun!
Frank
rrinker That's what I did on my last layout, but didn;t twist the bus wires. Made no effort to not allow them to twist occasionally if it happened. This is alway why I prefer stranded for the bus, MUCH easier to pull through holes in the benchwork than heavy gauge solid wire. I didn;t pull it tight - so there were sags between joists. AFTER all the feeders in the are were attached (not very difficult with a tool like the Ideal Stripmaster that can peel back insulation in the middle of a run without cutting the wire), I screwed on a couple of cable achors (thes ones I got had double sides tape on the back, but that was only good enough to hold it in place while I ran a screw throught he center, the tape wouldn't hold against the wood) and used cable ties to pull the bus wires up against the bottom. If additional feeders should ever be needed, it's easy enough to cut the ties and get the sag back, giving plenty of working room. If there is block detection on the various bus runs, you do not want them to all go through the same hole. I hadn't gotten there yet on my previous layout but in planning for it I had, in the parts nearest the power source, 3 holes down to the end of that section (staging, main, and branch busses) then halfway across the next section were 2 holes (branch and main) and then past that and along the opposite side of the room, just one hole for the main bus. Then I added a 4th hole for the bus powering the stationary decoders. Also things like a fixed power bus, especially if it's AC, or any 120VAC wiring, or signal wires such as the cab bus or a control system bus should cross the DCC power bus wires as close to 90 degrees as possible. If that means using cabple ties to hold the signal wires in a Z shape to get is across the track power bus, so be it. If any of this has to run parallel, keep a good bit of separation - keep on towards the back and one towards the front if possible. Crossing at 90 allows for the least possible amount of induced current from one signal line to the other. --Randy
That's what I did on my last layout, but didn;t twist the bus wires. Made no effort to not allow them to twist occasionally if it happened. This is alway why I prefer stranded for the bus, MUCH easier to pull through holes in the benchwork than heavy gauge solid wire.
I didn;t pull it tight - so there were sags between joists. AFTER all the feeders in the are were attached (not very difficult with a tool like the Ideal Stripmaster that can peel back insulation in the middle of a run without cutting the wire), I screwed on a couple of cable achors (thes ones I got had double sides tape on the back, but that was only good enough to hold it in place while I ran a screw throught he center, the tape wouldn't hold against the wood) and used cable ties to pull the bus wires up against the bottom. If additional feeders should ever be needed, it's easy enough to cut the ties and get the sag back, giving plenty of working room.
If there is block detection on the various bus runs, you do not want them to all go through the same hole. I hadn't gotten there yet on my previous layout but in planning for it I had, in the parts nearest the power source, 3 holes down to the end of that section (staging, main, and branch busses) then halfway across the next section were 2 holes (branch and main) and then past that and along the opposite side of the room, just one hole for the main bus. Then I added a 4th hole for the bus powering the stationary decoders.
Also things like a fixed power bus, especially if it's AC, or any 120VAC wiring, or signal wires such as the cab bus or a control system bus should cross the DCC power bus wires as close to 90 degrees as possible. If that means using cabple ties to hold the signal wires in a Z shape to get is across the track power bus, so be it. If any of this has to run parallel, keep a good bit of separation - keep on towards the back and one towards the front if possible. Crossing at 90 allows for the least possible amount of induced current from one signal line to the other.
--Randy
Rich
Alton Junction
Penn Central - - Thanks for that advice. I appreciate it.
Ah yes, foorgot about that, I also do the same, offset the feeder connections along the bus. Despite having all the feeders soldered on my last layout, I never did get around to going back and insulating the connections - never had a problem. I had been planning on painting them all with liquid electrical tape.
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I used 1"x4" wood for my benchwork and I chose to drill holes in it to run the buss wire. I use stranded wire for the buss, which allows for easier movement when feeding the wire through the holes. Also, I drilled the hole larger than needed to help with the movement of the wire, especially when attaching feeders.
I chose to drill holes and run it through the benchwork to (1) keep it neat, (2) allow the wood to provide the support instead of attaching wire hangers, (3) reduces the profile of items hanging down under the benchwork.
I did not twist the wire, which allows me flexibility when making my feeder attachments. The soldered "T" taps for my feeders are staggered to lessen the chance of the (+) and (-) making contact, either by me moving underneath or me moving storage boxes underneath.
I believe these items have been previously covered, it's going to be a personal choice. I did like the idea of using the safety cup holders. If using these, I would probably get plastic or insulated ones to lessen the chance of a short if the wire insulation gets broken or worn.
I don't believe I've ever had any issue with electrical interference when running my DCC system.
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PennCentral99 Based on the "nailed" part, is it safe to assume your old framework is wood? Is the new framework going to be wood or metal?
Based on the "nailed" part, is it safe to assume your old framework is wood? Is the new framework going to be wood or metal?
LION puts wires of him inside the FASCIA.
Much easier on back of LION.
ROAR
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Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
That's the way I have wired my layout...1/2" hole in the 1 X 4 cross braces, twist the 14 AWG bus and there is no problem. I also use cable holders in between to avoid having a lot of sag.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
IRONROOSTER Personally, I stay away from holes in the benchwork for 2 reasons. 1. Is having to pull the wire through the holes. For my last layout and my current one, I would have to pull wire through 30 feet of benchwork. 2. It's not in easy place to attach feeders when it's up in the benchwork.. What I do is use 1 1/4" safety cup hooks set back about 4" from the front of the benchwork. It's easy to put the bus wire in place. When I need to add feeders, I just unhook the wire from a couple of hooks. It drops down to where I can easily work with it from a chair in the aisle. Paul
Personally, I stay away from holes in the benchwork for 2 reasons.
1. Is having to pull the wire through the holes. For my last layout and my current one, I would have to pull wire through 30 feet of benchwork.
2. It's not in easy place to attach feeders when it's up in the benchwork..
What I do is use 1 1/4" safety cup hooks set back about 4" from the front of the benchwork. It's easy to put the bus wire in place. When I need to add feeders, I just unhook the wire from a couple of hooks. It drops down to where I can easily work with it from a chair in the aisle.
Paul
gregc richhotrain One, is it OK to run both of the bus wires in the same hole? Any chance of interference? Would I have to twist the two wires? if the pair of wires is carrying a signal such as DCC, you should put the wire as close together as possible. This minimizes the area between the wires that electromagnetic signals can induce currents within the loop created by the pair of wires. And is may be a good idea if you have multiple pairs of wires carrying DCC, to route them in separate holes away from one another. it also makes sense to separate wires that are carrying signals from other wires that are noisy (e.g. something that is pulsing) you can drill lots of holes without weakening the board as long as the holes are in the middle.
richhotrain One, is it OK to run both of the bus wires in the same hole? Any chance of interference? Would I have to twist the two wires?
if the pair of wires is carrying a signal such as DCC, you should put the wire as close together as possible. This minimizes the area between the wires that electromagnetic signals can induce currents within the loop created by the pair of wires.
And is may be a good idea if you have multiple pairs of wires carrying DCC, to route them in separate holes away from one another.
it also makes sense to separate wires that are carrying signals from other wires that are noisy (e.g. something that is pulsing)
you can drill lots of holes without weakening the board as long as the holes are in the middle.
betamax You can run both wires through one hole. No need to twist, just keep them close together. Just don't run the throttle bus and power bus through the same holes. Keep them separated. Running multiple power bus wires though the same hole, all together, shouldn't be an issue. Might cause insanity if you have to troubleshoot something, but other than that, little risk of problems. If you wish, you can always drill two smaller holes side by side for the Rail A and B wires of your bus. The important issue with the power bus is to keep the wires close together to minimize impedance. They don't have to be twisted, just close.
You can run both wires through one hole. No need to twist, just keep them close together. Just don't run the throttle bus and power bus through the same holes. Keep them separated.
Running multiple power bus wires though the same hole, all together, shouldn't be an issue. Might cause insanity if you have to troubleshoot something, but other than that, little risk of problems.
If you wish, you can always drill two smaller holes side by side for the Rail A and B wires of your bus. The important issue with the power bus is to keep the wires close together to minimize impedance. They don't have to be twisted, just close.
I will color code the bus wires so that should eliminate any confusion.
richhotrainOne, is it OK to run both of the bus wires in the same hole? Any chance of interference? Would I have to twist the two wires?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
On my current layout, I used plastic cable holders, nailed to the framework, to hold my bus wires.
On my new layout, it has been suggested to me by a fellow modeler that I drill holes in the framework to carry the bus wires. I like that idea, but I have a few questions.
One, is it OK to run both of the bus wires in the same hole? Any chance of interference? Would I have to twist the two wires?
Two, would it be OK to run more than one pair of bus wires in the same hole? Or, should I drill separate holes?
Thanks, I look forward to your suggestions and your advice.