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Layouts in extreme heat and humidity differentials

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  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Burlington Vt
  • 76 posts
Layouts in extreme heat and humidity differentials
Posted by Bering on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 12:26 PM

Hello all,
I have been looking around at my options for a layout and have come up with a reasonable idea.  4X10ish to be built on a wheeled table in the corner of a detached garage.  This is my best option for a multitude of reasons, including that it is by far the easiest place to fit it, and that it is the only place i would ever be able to move it from (small doors).  The biggest problems that I see are climate related, here in new england the layout would be exposed to humidity from 0% to over 90% and temps from 0F to near 120F.  The temps are more due to the garage heating up from the sun in the summer.  I know that i would have to be very conscious of this during construction, but is it even possible?  Would the temperature changes slowly pull the layout apart as the frame expands and contracts?  Would humidity wreak havoc on the scenery?  I have found some advice in other places online, but wanted your thoughts before diving in.

Lost in the snow

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • From: Pittsburgh, PA
  • 470 posts
Posted by ctyclsscs on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 1:05 PM

We have a portable layout we bring to shows. It's over ten years old now and has been in just about every extreme you can imagine. It has sat for days in our van in temps near 0 to near 100 (maybe higher). So far I haven't see any evidence of major shrinking or expanding. The track hasn't moved or kinked. About the only thing it hasn't been exposed to is long periods of high humidity, that I can recall.

Like you, I've seen others who have had major issues with temperatures. I don't know if I've been lucky or if it has anything to do with how the layout was built. It is made of four sections that have always lined up just fine despite the temperature. The one thing I think I would avoid is anything that might absorb a lot of moisture, like foam core, printed backdrops, etc. Maybe even Masonite.

Jim

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 1:26 PM

Been there and done that.  It doesn’t get down to the lower 20°s very often but when we first moved here the temperature swing in the garage was easily low 30°s to 110° plus.
 
I’ve never had a problem with the wood.  I used ½” plywood with 2” x 4” for my basic layout construction using wood screws, ¼” bolts and good old Elmer’s Carpenter glue.  I used 3½” wide by ¼” thick OSB for my helix and 1” x 2” supports.  The entire layout has been solid.
 
We (normally) don’t have humidity problems here (it’s raining as I type this), our normal humidity runs between 5% to 30% in the summer and 40% to 60% during our rainy season (about 30 days during winter).
 
The only problems I had was my own doing.  I soldered the track joiners, that cost me 9 sections of flex track.  The rail expansion caused the rails to break all the plastic spikes in 10” to 18” sections everywhere it was not ballasted.  The ballasted areas (white glue under the rails) forced the rails to expand where it was the easiest, in my mountains where it was the hardest to replace.
 
I have since insulated the garage to R40 and that works better for both my layout and me.  The lows are now in the upper 50°s with the upper 20°s outside and the highest I’ve seen it is 92° with the outside temp at 111°.
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
  
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Burlington Vt
  • 76 posts
Posted by Bering on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 1:30 PM

RR_Mel

 

I have since insulated the garage to R40 and that works better for both my layout and me.

 

I wish I had a better place for a layout, but this is pretty much my only option.

Lost in the snow

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 7,500 posts
Posted by 7j43k on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 2:15 PM

Bering

The biggest problems that I see are climate related, here in new england the layout would be exposed to humidity from 0% to over 90% and temps from 0F to near 120F.  The temps are more due to the garage heating up from the sun in the summer.

 

It might be worth your while to install a vent fan in an external wall as high up as you can make it.

 

Ed

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 2:21 PM

Bering

 

 
RR_Mel

 

I have since insulated the garage to R40 and that works better for both my layout and me.

 

 

 

I wish I had a better place for a layout, but this is pretty much my only option.

 

Is insulation an option?  We had a shake shingle roof and were ordered by our insurance company to replace the shakes (forest fire danger, we are 20 miles from the nearest forest).  After the new roof was installed I discovered that shake shingles have a very good R rating and had to have the house attic reinsulated and I included the garage.  
 
I might add it’s not wise to store your locomotives in an area with a wide temperature swing, that cost me several cracked axle gears on my HO diesels.  I’m sure it was the temp swing because when I went with a G gauge garden railroad and stored my locomotives on the patio, the first winter cost me the gears in my Bachmann 2-8-0 and Shay.  Bachmann was very good about it, they sent me new wheels at no charge.  I now store all my locomotives in our hobby room (converted bedroom).
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
  
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Weymouth, Ma.
  • 5,199 posts
Posted by bogp40 on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 3:09 PM

For a layout of that size, you really shouldn't have too many issues with heat, however, the extremes of humidity may be concern. If you are laying track on roadbed over sheet ply, just paint the plywood, both sides, help stop any warping or slight buckling. A method to eliminate both temp and humidity would be to buil open frame, place 1/4" ply and a layer of extruded foam. roadbed and track is just glued with DAP Alex plus. This is done by countless members here and most never have issues.

Modeling B&O- Chessie  Bob K.  www.ssmrc.org

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: 4610 Metre's North of the Fortyninth on the left coast of Canada
  • 9,352 posts
Posted by BATMAN on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 3:41 PM

Steel studs are cheap. Use those with extruded foam on top and foam roadbed, that eliminates wood altogether. Temperature would not concern me, however, humidity will play havoc.

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,667 posts
Posted by rrebell on Thursday, March 22, 2018 10:56 AM

Construction materials is the key. Foam, cork and nickle silver track should not be a problem because of expantion and contraction rates as long as you don't go crazy with long streches of perfectly strait track but this ia a warning for people with large railroads. Humitity dose not affect those items either as the cork we use is a cheap mix of granuals and dose not expand like a bottle cork dose.

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