OK. Perhaps they use a different metal now. back 2 layouts ago when I attempted to solder a wire directly to the frog, it just would not stick to the frog metal and ended up heating up the frog so much it popped completely off. When I did my last layout I just used brass screws and as soon as the solder bonded the wire and the brass screw I was done, I didn;t even attempt to make it stick to the frog lest I repeat the same thing again and have it pop off. I was able to salvage the broken one with a few drops of CA and plenty of weight holding it down while the glue dried, it was just as reliable as any of the others.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker Are you sure you are using brass screws? I had no problems soldering wires to the brass screws I used in mine.
Hi Randy:
I think you may have misinterpreted my comment when I said "...around the brass screws...". The solder stuck to the screws no problem. I should have said that the solder stuck to both the brass screw and the frog. It just took a little longer for the solder to flow onto the frog.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Are you sure you are using brass screws? I had no problems soldering wires to the brass screws I used in mine. There's no need for the solder to also stick to the soft metal of the frog is it's stuck to the screw.
Thanks Sheldon I appreciate all your contributions to the forum
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddy ATLANTIC CENTRAL And, I like filing the top of the frog to get rid of the blackening, raised frog or not.... I saw that post and I thought it was functional, but you are doing it for the cosmetic look?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL And, I like filing the top of the frog to get rid of the blackening, raised frog or not....
I saw that post and I thought it was functional, but you are doing it for the cosmetic look?
Both, most of the time they need a little filing as they are often a little high, or the plastic insulator piece is high. But additionally I think the tops should be bright like the rail and I paint the sides (of all the rail) rust.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALAnd, I like filing the top of the frog to get rid of the blackening, raised frog or not....
ATLANTIC CENTRALWell, it can be soldered, I have done it, but it is a pill...... you have to clean the metal well and be pretty good to not melt the ties.
I seemed to be able to get the solder to flow onto the frog around the brass screw by only using some flux. It did take longer than soldering to the rails for sure. The one tie that touches the screw lug did get a bit distorted right next to the screw but it was nothing serious. A quick trim of the flared end with a #11 blade eliminated any evidence of the melting.
ATLANTIC CENTRALonly the smallest four wheel loco could find itself only riding on the point rail?
Precisely! I made no secret about the fact that I want to be able to run my critters on the layout! Several of them are shorter than the point rails or would only have one axle on the connecting track when passing through the turnout. Nobody seemed to object (as long as I did the work).
When I run the seminar on how to add the jumpers I will mention your experience. I will also note that the one member of the club who has said fairly loudly that he doesn't think the jumpers are necessary has admitted to having occassional problems with his turnouts. If nothing else, the seminar will be a good lesson in how to solder to the rails without melting a bunch of ties.
Well, it can be soldered, I have done it, but it is a pill...... you have to clean the metal well and be pretty good to not melt the ties.
The screw deal is much easier......
And, I like filing the top of the frog to get rid of the blackening, raised frog or not....
This is a new Atlas customline code 83 #6. Unlike the curved turnout, the frog and the metal ring are blackened. Are we saying this can be soldered too?
At the slowest speed step my 45 tonner will reliably move, it stutters at the frog of the curved turnout. Anything faster and it breezes right through.
hon30critter ATLANTIC CENTRAL Atlas turnouts do not need any shimming of guard rails or frogs....really bad idea. Hi Sheldon: Thanks for answering that question. I didn't think that any shimming would be necessary but now is the time to ask before they are installed. As far as adding the jumper wires, I chose to err on the side of caution. It doesn't do any damage (if you do it right) and the turnouts will be bullet proof forever. It does complicate the turnout installation in that the cork has to be hollowed out where the jumpers sit under the turnout. That is no big deal. Adding ballast also has to be done very carefully because you don't want to glue the jumper wires in place. That could make the point rails too stiff to move. Dave
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Atlas turnouts do not need any shimming of guard rails or frogs....really bad idea.
Hi Sheldon:
Thanks for answering that question. I didn't think that any shimming would be necessary but now is the time to ask before they are installed.
As far as adding the jumper wires, I chose to err on the side of caution. It doesn't do any damage (if you do it right) and the turnouts will be bullet proof forever. It does complicate the turnout installation in that the cork has to be hollowed out where the jumpers sit under the turnout. That is no big deal. Adding ballast also has to be done very carefully because you don't want to glue the jumper wires in place. That could make the point rails too stiff to move.
You are most welcome. I understand your view on the jumpers, my view is based on 20 plus years of use.........
Because they are "feed thru" wired in the first place, that means the point rail "in use" is connected to a live rail on both ends. The likelyhood that both of those mechanical connections could loose electrical continuity and still allow the train to ride thru seems nearly impossible. And with todays locos, where nearly every wheel picks up power, only the smallest four wheel loco could find itself only riding on the point rail?
I was never happy relying on the points to transfer power, but with both ends already hot, I have never had problems.
I never really cared for power routing back in the day with my hand laid track, or with other solid rail brands. I was very happy when Atlas came out with the code 83 and its various improvements over their original code 100 custom line.
My frogs are powered by the same relay system that controls the turnouts, and manual turnouts have slide switches for switch stands allowing both powered frogs and power routing of dead end sidings.
Remember, still DC here.....
ATLANTIC CENTRALAtlas turnouts do not need any shimming of guard rails or frogs....really bad idea.
The #8's and the new curved turnouts have the frog wiring tab as shown above.
The only thing I have ever done is wire my frogs, and file the tops of them down.
I have successfully solder directly to the frog, but I have also installed 1-72 screws and simply wraped the wire around the screw, under the head - no soldering, no failures.
I have reversed a number of throw bars and yes, sometimes they need very minor adjusting out of the package.
I solder all my rail joints, never had any trouble with points, or any other part of the turnout, loosing power.
Atlas turnouts do not need any shimming of guard rails or frogs....really bad idea.
While they may not match NMRA standards perfectly, the check gauge at the guard rails is fine for NMRA standard wheels. And frog bottoms should not be shimmed for wheels to ride on the flanges.....
BigDaddyand measure how big that brass hole really is.
Judging by the photo the Atlas curved turnout already has a solder terminal attached to the frog similar to the Atlas #8 turnouts.
Atl_curve by Edmund, on Flickr
You shouldn't have to do any tapping of the frog for those.
I may be mistaken...
Good Luck, Ed
If it's on the Internet, it must be true.
I keep a spread sheet on metric vs US sizes and added micro screws to it.
The major diameter for each is as follows
1-80 0.06"
1-72 0.073
2 mm .079
2-56 0.086
You don't want to tap a hole that takes out too much of the surrounding metal that it falls apart, nor is it an application subject to high torque or shear.
I soldered a healthy length of green wire to my Wathers frogs in case I needed Frog Juicers. So far I don't. I recently bought an Altas curved turnout and they have really long frogs. I need to test them and see how my 45 tonner runs and measure how big that brass hole really is.
hon30critter garya I'm surprised you got a 2-56 bolt in the frog--I thought that a 1-72 fit. Hi garya, I had to tap the hole but it didn't seem to remove much material. Only enough to cut the threads, and there was lots of material left around the threaded hole. garya I've been filing my frogs, too, as they seem to lift some drivers up, but after fiing, it seems the drivers drop in to the frog. Someone told me they need to be shimmed with .010" styrene, but I haven't tried that yet or even where to do it... I'll have to have a look at that. The way the frogs came from the factory certainly would have made for a bumpy ride. Thanks for your input. Dave
garya I'm surprised you got a 2-56 bolt in the frog--I thought that a 1-72 fit.
Hi garya,
I had to tap the hole but it didn't seem to remove much material. Only enough to cut the threads, and there was lots of material left around the threaded hole.
garya I've been filing my frogs, too, as they seem to lift some drivers up, but after fiing, it seems the drivers drop in to the frog. Someone told me they need to be shimmed with .010" styrene, but I haven't tried that yet or even where to do it...
I'll have to have a look at that. The way the frogs came from the factory certainly would have made for a bumpy ride.
Thanks for your input.
Well, I've been Googling this, and some people say an 0-80 screw will fit, some use a 1-72, and some a 2-56. I know someone gave me some Atlas screws and small brass busbars, just for powering frogs, but I can't find them. So I tried tapping one of my turnouts with a 1-72 tap and brass screw, and it worked fine. I haven't soldered a wire to it, yet, but when I do I have to figure out how to wire it up.
Gary
I have Atlas Custom Line Code 83 and Code 100 #6 turnouts covering my layout, and the only wiring I do is feeders at all three ends of every turnout.
The only problem that I have ever had with these turnouts is the rails coming loose from the plastic ties at the tail end of a few turnouts, but I blame that on rough handling by the operator - - me.
Rich
Alton Junction
garyaI'm surprised you got a 2-56 bolt in the frog--I thought that a 1-72 fit.
garyaI've been filing my frogs, too, as they seem to lift some drivers up, but after fiing, it seems the drivers drop in to the frog. Someone told me they need to be shimmed with .010" styrene, but I haven't tried that yet or even where to do it...
I'm surprised you got a 2-56 bolt in the frog--I thought that a 1-72 fit.
I've been filing my frogs, too, as they seem to lift some drivers up, but after fiing, it seems the drivers drop in to the frog. Someone told me they need to be shimmed with .010" styrene, but I haven't tried that yet or even where to do it...
Hi everyone.
I'm in the process of modifing and tuning some Atlas Code 83 Customline #6 turnouts using Alan Gartner's 'Wiring for DCC' guidelines. In the process I also want to address any other potential issues before the turnouts are installed.
Here is what I have done so far:
- Soldered jumper wires between the point rails and the closure rails, and between the closure rails and the stock rails as per Wiring for DCC.
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm
- Tapped the frog hole and installed a brass 2-56 x 1/8" bolt to solder the frog feeder wire to. I was able to solder the bolt to to the frog, and I have soldered a #18 solid wire to the bolt head.
- Adjusted the tips of the point rails so that they fit tightly into the space in the stock rails.
- checked to see that the tips of the point rails are sitting properly on the pegs in the throw bar. Some were out of place, not many.
- Filed the frog level with the connecting rails. The outbound ends of the frogs were higher than the adjacent track on almost every turnout. The plastic insulating bits between the closure rails and the frog were all sticking up a bit.
Is there anything else I should be looking at? For example, I know that the guard rail spacing on some Peco turnouts is too wide and needs to be shimmed. Any similar issues with the Atlas Customlines?
Your experience with these turnouts is appreciated!
Cheers!!