Selector, yeah I now see your point. Your example could have a few uses elsewhere. I might go looking for it, only to discover it's been swiped by my Sweetie to hang pictures in the new guest room - the room that I'd hoped to snatch for my new layout. Arrggh. Double disappointment.
BTW, there are some cheaters for reach, depending on the work to be done and whether you have slab or open frame construction. If it's plywood sheeting and you have open areas where you can plant your off-hand fist, that can really extend your reach (depending on your ground cover and the cushion you might need to employ). If it's a bit more congested, you can create a sturdy little "hand bench" in the form of the spritzy aluminum ones in your link. Of course, you'd be a one-hand wonder as far as the task is concerned. JUST BE SURE YOUR FOOTING REMAINS SECURE.
John
Kevin, i am 49.
I really appreciate all the replies. Thanks for all the advice regarding height and reach, i will be sure to do research. I am going to see what i can plan as far as some type of continious running but most likely it will have to involve hidden tracks under the layout / benchwork. It seems everyone is suggesting to keep some sort of continious running. Thanks for that.
At this point i have not got too attached to any track plan as i am trying to maximize the best use of my awkward space, while maintaining access to my water shut off, electric, etc etc. I have allowed to broaden out the inside corners to allow for wider curves.
The idea of a lift out section between the layout and yard would only need to be in place when trains are entering / leaving the yard and not neccessary as part of any mainline so to speak, as already mentioned. So it would not hinder access into the basement on a daily basis.
I also want to mention that my existing layout has been finished for a number of years now, i know never completely finished, but finished in my mind, so please dont think i am giving up on what i have in some way. I love the idea of building something improved. I like the idea of off layout yard / staging so the actual layout does not become so clogged up with rolling stock.
Thanks everyone for the advice, encouragement and suggestions. My plan is to think through all possibilities and make a decision as to what i think will be best for me. Not just the layout but the basement as a whole.
Attuvian ... As for those contraptions that allow you to cantilever yourself over your layout? Nah, buy another quality engine. And think of the storage space you save by not having one. They may have some benefits, but likely not in many home layout environments. (Note: with apologies to Selector above, this last observation is more an issue of personal preference. I might think differently if I had a basement - of any size.) John
...
As for those contraptions that allow you to cantilever yourself over your layout? Nah, buy another quality engine. And think of the storage space you save by not having one. They may have some benefits, but likely not in many home layout environments. (Note: with apologies to Selector above, this last observation is more an issue of personal preference. I might think differently if I had a basement - of any size.)
John, I wouldn't recommend those lean-over contraptions either unless one needed to do a lot of work over a substantial existing benchwork, say a substantial re-do of a yard or something. I meant this beastie:
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=bktrV9j0&id=F82A9CEDA2FB13E61DCC76FB3BFC56B61D452614&thid=OIP.bktrV9j0YbdMLoS5ag0SPwEsEs&q=aluminum+scaffold+bench&simid=608009088587006763&selectedIndex=1&ajaxhist=0
It is really very handy and versatile, and can be slid quickly out of the way, unlike that monster sky-hook you were talking about.
basementdwellerI am weighing the options whether to build a new layout.
.
I say build a new layout. It sounds like you learned lessons and know what you want from your next layout.
Have you read Tony Koester's book "Allegheny Midland, Lessons Learned"? It describes quite a bit of what it sounds like you are considering.
I am designing my last final lifetime layout right now, and it is a very scary process. I have started over several times. This should be my last time.
You did not mention your age. I am almost 50, so I am making some more considerations. The layout will be in the main area of the house, and will be wheelchair accessable. This is not a concern now, but I have seen Model Railroaders grow old and lose access to their railroad. The layout will be single deck and not more than 30" deep. Layout height has not been decided, but will not exceed 36 inches. I can sit down if I want eye level. In 30 years I might not be able to stand.
Work in a lot of "play value" that suits your tastes. It sounds like you have a growing knowledge of what you are enjoying.
Have fun!
-Kevin
Living the dream.
cowman Maximum shelf depth can be up to the distance you can reach in without knocking things over on the layout. Consider both layout height and your reach when planning this. Richard
Maximum shelf depth can be up to the distance you can reach in without knocking things over on the layout. Consider both layout height and your reach when planning this.
Richard
All,
It just occurred to me that this piece of oft delivered and very excellent advice might sometimes be misconstrued by a first-time builder who gets in a hurry. He or she may think that it applies simply to the reach of one arm. Great, if all you need to do is re-rail a disobedient stock car. But it should consider all that you may need to do with both arms as MRRing is decidedly a two-handed business. A double-arm reach is decidedly less than leaning to the side for simple tasks with just one. Depending on one's size and reach, I'll bet the difference between the two could be as much as a foot. Not a small matter if you discover it after your benchwork has been finished!
I think every model railroader early on should take twenty minutes working on something of modest complexity two-handed across a table of a representative height, just to verify what they can manage comfortably. THEN, prepare to have to adjust this range in coming years due to the ravages of time, health, and down-home cooking.
Yes, plan the layout to fit the room. Maximum depth of 24 inches is good but you might want it to be a little bit deeper in the corners if that’s how it fits in the room. Minimum width can be as little was one track wide. Don’t limit your options. Plan what fit’s the room. If you can add some extra mileage with a very narrow shelf go for it. I find that the closer to eye level the layout is the more enjoyable it is and it also makes the layout seem larger and the distances father apart. Put your favorite locomotive on some shelves and see which height you like looking at it the best. Go for it. Fix all of your shortcomings and enjoy!
Instead of a stool, consider one of those folding leg short scaffold type aluminum benches sold near the ladders. This gives you more options of both ingress AND egress when backing out of the layout to fix something. I can't tell you how often I get up to do something and attempt to come down finding I have migrated left or right a foot or two and can't feel where the small stool is behind and below me. This wider bench makes that process safer. Yup, it's a bit of a space hog, but you can slide it under the layout between support legs when you don't need to use it.
Space, including obstacles and doors/windows/pillars, is always my first part of my 'appreciation' process. Once I know what my limitations are, I can begin to plan curve radii. They, in turn, allow me to consider the options for placement of benchwork and its dimensions, particularly how deep in any one area. From there, you simply add tangents to the various curves and attempt/hope to link it all into a loop. If you're lucky, and you do it correctly, you can even twin the main.
I know simply running trains around a loop of any complexity is going to get old quickly. So, I look for places to add switchbacks, those gifts that keep on giving. They afford access to at least two industries. I try for two industrial tracks, each with facing points at their turnouts depending on the direction of travel.
Finally, I try to have a yard. At a minimum, three ladder tracks, or more. Also, twice now I have built under-the-layout staging with a long no-lix type ramp under the layout and emerging somewher near the main.
Your original post is the description of my layout.
At my age, 69, and my heath issues, starting over is not an option. Is it something you should consider??
With a shelf style layout, IMO, the benchwork is sort of generic, with the general shape of the trackplan getting designed at the same time. What you really are doing is designing around obstructions and providing enough aisle width and elbow room.
It sounds like the drop down will be out of the way unless you're operating the staging area. It seems like a good use of space. Probably the best use, IMO.
Turn back blobs are space eaters. They require a lot of benchwork to accomodate broad radius curves, then require aisles on both sides in order to avoid the dreaded pop up hatch. Creative use of an angled backdrop and open benchwork on the back side of it might allow for a blob to be against a wall. If I use a peninsula on my next layout, it will be narrow and used for staging tracks.
My last layout was 48 inches high just because it conserved lumber. My next layout will be probably 53 inches with 24 inch maximum depth. I'm 6 ft tall.
- Douglas
basementdweller I like the idea of continuous running ability even if some of it is hidden. I think a double mainline implies that continious running is the priority, thoughts?
I like the idea of continuous running ability even if some of it is hidden. I think a double mainline implies that continious running is the priority, thoughts?
Running trains in a continuous loop, particularly on a larger layout where the "loop" is not obvious, also adds flexibility and visual interest. Trains are always running on the mainline(s) while operations may also be taking place in the yards, sidings, and spurs.
Rich
Alton Junction
cowman Another thing to think about is using a stool. I have a couple of stools that I can sit on while just watching trains or doing switching, giving me a more realistic viewing angle and not having to stand to see the trains. However, if I need to work on the layout, I can stand and easily reach all areas.
Another thing to think about is using a stool. I have a couple of stools that I can sit on while just watching trains or doing switching, giving me a more realistic viewing angle and not having to stand to see the trains. However, if I need to work on the layout, I can stand and easily reach all areas.
42" is a very common layout height. Another thing to think about is using a stool. I have a couple of stools that I can sit on while just watching trains or doing switching, giving me a more realistic viewing angle and not having to stand to see the trains. However, if I need to work on the layout, I can stand and easily reach all areas.
Since your space seems to be limited or not-conventional, another way to get continuous running is to use a dog bone plan. It looks like double track between the two loops at the end, but you can have a fairly narrow shelf with the two tracks.
Our host lists books on benchwork, but I don't know if any of them include ideas on storage. I'm sure there are other sources also.
Good luck,
I appreciate the replies, I had not considered the reach being reduced with layout height. My current layout is about 36" as the kids were still home when I started building it. All grown now. I was thinking of raising the height.
My basement is unfinished but heated and cooled and a dehumidifyer stays running 24/7.
The issues I need to address are not major issues but things I want to address sooner rather than later.
I like the idea of continious running ability even if some of it is hidden. I think a double mainline implies that continious running is the priority, thoughts?
I also want to improve storage of tools and supplies etc, hopefully that can be accomplished with new and improved bench work.
Is there suggested reading primarily regarding how build benchwork that addresses these issues?
Thanks
As I was reading your initial post, I thought that I was writing it.
Like you, I built my current layout in stages, beginning in 2005 and continued to add on and to modify the track plan through 2016. I, too, have a double mainline, continuous running and no staging.
My basement is unfinished, but heated and cooled with humidity control. I have some posts that support I-beams. The posts don't get in the way, but I have to take them into consideration when dealing with aisle space.
I am 6' tall, and my layout is 36" high, so I can reach 32" to 34" without much effort. Like you, I do have some inaccessible areas that require popup hatches.
I am working on a plan for a new layout as we speak. My modus operandi is to design a footprint that maximizes the available space while avoiding duckunders and which allows for passable aisles.
I definitely agree with you that you should decide on the layout shape and size before giving any serious consideration to a track plan.
On my new layout, I will continue to have a double mainline, continuous running, with yards and sidings for operations. Personally, I could not tolerate a layout dedicated solely to switching.
Welcome back and know that you weren't the only one that had a hectic 2017.
First, if your basement has issues, they should be the first thing addressed. If they aren't taken care of they will surely need tending to just as soon as your layout is up and in the way.
Since your space is unconventional and has issues you can't change, a rough size/ shape plan should be drawn before the track plan.
You are the only one that can determine if you will be happy with a switching layout. A number of layouts have some plan to include continuous running, even on a primarily switching layout. Some are done as a single, unscenicked track running behind and around things to get back to the layout. Others work a way to drop down and go underneath the layout and come back up at the other end. Personally I like the idea of having continuous running available, but that's me.
i haven't posted on here in quite some time, 2017 was rather a hectic year, I am hoping for a little more free time in 2018.
I am weighing the options whether to build a new layout. My current island style layout i built about 10 years ago, it is a double mainline continuous running with an interchange and some switching. To be honest the switching has never worked too well as it was all added on in stages and not planned from the beginning. Current layout is 90 square feet of layout surface, some parts I can't reach and so that is where the town is etc. I have made various track / siding changes over the years. What i find most frustrating is my basement has pillars that get in the way. Also I have no off layout staging, so the layout becomes clogged up with cars and trains.
So I am considering a new layout, all the pillars would be incorporated into the backdrop and not in the way of viewing. What I have come up with will give me a shelf style layout of about 61 square feet of layout area, all useable and within reach. If I am willing to have a drop down or lift out bridge at the bottom of my basement steps then I can incorporate an off layout staging / yard area of about 20" x 84". I operate (run trains) by myself with maybe be an occasional visitor.
A few questions: i feel due to my basement I have to decide on layout size and shape first then worry about track plan later. Anyone disagree?
I am thinking of a maximum shelf width (depth) of 24" maybe down to a minimum of 18" in one area.
while the existing layout is torn down I will be able to address a few basement issues that I have been putting off.
All in all I need convinced I will be happy going from mostly continuous running to a switching layout. Thanks, Martin.