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To recess or not?

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To recess or not?
Posted by Capt.Brigg on Wednesday, October 25, 2017 1:24 PM

I'm ready to add DPDT electric micro switches on the facia for my tortois turnout motors. I've prototyped a 2" pipe end cap to recess the switches into the facia but this will take up so much room on the facia, I don't much like it. The alternative is to place the switch directly through the facia board, leaving the 1/2" switch handle protruding out of the facia. I'm worried these switch handles will snag on the crew's clothing. I already have lots of these micro switches. Any suggestions on how to avoid both drawbacks, (recess or protrude), will be greatly appreciated.
Capt. Brigg Franklin CEO:
Pacific Cascade Railway in HO gauge

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Posted by carl425 on Wednesday, October 25, 2017 1:56 PM

Take a look at these:

http://www.berretthillshop.com/store/products/touch-controls/

It would mean surplusing your inventory of toggles, but IMO it would be worth it.

I have the right to remain silent.  By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.

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Posted by gmpullman on Wednesday, October 25, 2017 1:57 PM

Hi, Captain

What I have found that works best for me is to use single and two-gang household outlet blank covers, the flexible Lexan ones, and fit these with a simple hardware drawer pull arranged to protect the "toggle" part of the switch so that they don't get snagged.

 

 IMG_0167_W by Edmund, on Flickr

Yes, I still have a DYMO label maker!

 

 IMG_0168 by Edmund, on Flickr

I still have to make labels for this one. Note the toggle is side-ways mounted. This is because this turnout can be operated from two locations, therefore the "reverse-up, normal-down" doesn't relate to the orientation of the toggle lever.

 IMG_0170 by Edmund, on Flickr

I like to be able to zip the short, flathead wood screws out, #6 x 5/8 I believe, and I can easily access the wiring. Leave enough lead wire so you can pull it away from the fascia a few inches or more.

 IMG_0171 by Edmund, on Flickr

You mention that you are using microswitches? I assume you mean miniature toggle switch or are you really using Microswitch type lever switches? Just wondering.

By having my switches on the cover plate I can do my wiring at the bench, leaving whatever length of "pigtail" I need to make my connection to the Tortoise. I don't like to directly mount switches to the fascia itself. I use 5mm lauan plywood with fabric covering. Just too messy to drill cleanly.

The Lexan, or polycarbonate, cover plates drill cleanly and are thin enough to fit the toggle switch and LEDs through. By default I have the toggle arranged so that when the lever is DOWN the turnout is lined for the main route, this way I can easily flip all the toggles down and all routes are "normal". I use the LED holder rings for a neat appearance.

Some of my larger panels are made on 1/8" Lexan, usually hinged for access.

Hope this helps, it is what works for me. Others may have better ideas...

Regards, Ed

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Posted by owen w in california on Wednesday, October 25, 2017 2:43 PM

Hey Ed: Great idea to use the cover panels. I don't recall seeing that before. I have mostly hand thrown turnouts, but a few locations where I have toggles in holes directly into the fascia. I might change that now, seeing what you've done. Thanks for sharing. Joel

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Posted by Capt.Brigg on Wednesday, October 25, 2017 3:39 PM

Carl425, thanks for the link. I have seen those toggle switches and they look very nice but on my hobby budget are too expensive.

Ed, I like your ideas, but may modify your process a little. Since my facia is hinged at the bottom and swings down to get at the wiring (see photo) I can put the miniture toggle switch and LED into the facia and then put a drawer pull over it for protection.
Hinged facia board
Thanks to both of you for responding.
Capt. Brigg

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Posted by wp8thsub on Wednesday, October 25, 2017 5:26 PM

I used beveled wood moldings to protect the toggles.  I cut them from 1/2" X 3/4" rectangular molding stock from Lowe's, attached with Liquid Nails construction adhesive.  Clothing never snags on the toggles, and the turnouts never get accidentally thrown.  

Rob Spangler

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, October 25, 2017 6:20 PM

Lots of good suggestions and innovative thinking, too! Thumbs UpThumbs Up

Another option is toggle switches with more compact visible parts.  The ones shown below, on both the upper and lower fascia, protrude only 1/2", and that includes the bezel which holds them in place.  The actual switch is full-size.


Another thing to factor in is aisle width:  mine are fairly generous, although there's one tight-ish spot.  I could easily squeeze by my double there, but none of my bigger friends would have trouble going through that area on their own.  Naturally, there are no toggle switches in that area.

If you wish to recess the toggles, I'd think that 1½" pipe caps would be sufficient - you need use only your fingertip to flip the switch.

Wayne

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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, October 25, 2017 6:39 PM

Ken Patterson uses round rocker switches.  Less than $1 each at Digikey. 

His method of construction is a little different. He uses plywood for fascia and multiple layers of 2" foam.  Sept 4, 2015 of What's Neat on Youtube.  He makes a mini panel out lexan, and inlays that into the foam, after tunneling the wires to the front of the foam.  With the inset and the thickness of the plywood, the switches are protected from brushing by them. 

Even is you don't use his technique, a rocker is a lower profile.  It does not protect you from people leaning on the fascia.

 
 

Henry

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Posted by gmpullman on Wednesday, October 25, 2017 7:23 PM

BigDaddy
Ken Patterson uses round rocker switches.  Less than $1 each at Digikey. 

Rocker switches might be OK— but I still like the tactile feel of the standard toggle plus I like to be able to look at a glance, even with the bi-color LED, and see the position of the toggle.

Thank You, Joel!

Capt. Brigg: I hope you have better luck drilling the "Masonite" and fitting the switch. Whenever I tried to drill hardboard, unless it is the REALLY dense, tempered stuff, all I got was a fuzzy hole and it was a pain to try to mount the switch, especially the sub-miniature switches Super Angry

Regards,  Ed

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Posted by Capt.Brigg on Thursday, October 26, 2017 12:21 AM

I like a combination of Ed's and Roger's ideas above, only I would like to find a tubular or solid metal handle about 3/4" tall and 1.5" wide that fits over the switch handle. I've looked at all the drawer handles at the big box stores and they are all 3" to 4" wide, too big. I might as well go with the 2" indented pipe cap. What I need is a handle for a very narrow 3" wide drawer or something like it.  I also looked at covers for industrial switches, all too big. I think we need to look outside the box (or drawer.) How to make or buy a small switch shield like Ed's only smaller. Again, thanks for all the energizing ideas.
Capt. Brigg Franklin
Pacific Cascade Railway

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Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, October 26, 2017 12:42 AM

Capt.Brigg
I would like to find a tubular or solid metal handle about 3/4" tall and 1.5" wide that fits over the switch handle.

They're not metal, but perhaps a PVC Conduit two-hole clamp. Maybe the 3/4" or 1" pipe diameter size? They are pretty tough and you can paint them any color you choose.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/3-4-in-Strap-Clamp-20-Pack-R5133737M/202043268

 

OR if you really want metal, you can get them in galvanized or stainless, too.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Halex-3-4-in-Electrical-Metallic-Tube-EMT-2-Hole-Straps-20-Pack-26162/100187726

Personally, I think the PVC ones would look a little nicer.

They will be rounded and shouldn't snag anything, except those pesky Digitrax throttle plugs! They snag on everything!

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, October 26, 2017 2:09 AM

Great discussion! Lots of great ideas.

This is one of the details that our club will have to address very soon.

Thanks,

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Eric White on Thursday, October 26, 2017 8:50 AM

Where you have a single switch, you could continue with the PVC caps.

Where you have multiple switches, you could make a recessed panel.

I wonder if there's a way you could mount them so they're facing down.

There's so much to think about in building a layout, isn't there.

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Posted by Capt.Brigg on Friday, October 27, 2017 2:59 PM

I still haven't found my perfect solution for the mini toggle switches. The recessed pipe caps seem too large and the protruding switch cover seems to stick out too far.
fascia switch choices

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Posted by BigDaddy on Friday, October 27, 2017 7:02 PM

Capt.Brigg
The recessed pipe caps seem too large and the protruding switch cover seems to stick out too far.

Is that the 2" cap?  There are smaller caps available but I don't know what size I would need to get my fat fingers in there.  Some of us have an abundance of pill bottle caps, they do not necessarily have the smooth interior of the PVC caps.

 

Henry

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Posted by gregc on Saturday, October 28, 2017 5:52 AM

have you considered recessing a latching spdt button switch 

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by BigDaddy on Saturday, October 28, 2017 7:47 AM

edit  never mind.

Henry

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Posted by Capt.Brigg on Saturday, October 28, 2017 10:31 AM

When dealing with the tortoise turnout machine the electrical switch has to be DPDT in order the reverse the electrical polarity and be permanent contact and unlighted when using a red/green LED to signal the turnout direction. However it was a good idea to look on Ebay for the right kind of switch, thanks. I will do a little more searching.
Capt. Brigg

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Posted by gregc on Saturday, October 28, 2017 12:18 PM

Capt.Brigg
When dealing with the tortoise turnout machine the electrical switch has to be DPDT in order the reverse the electrical polarity and be permanent contact and unlighted when using a red/green LED to signal the turnout direction.

unless you use a bipolar (+/gnd/-) supply 

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by nealknows on Saturday, October 28, 2017 1:38 PM

  

One of my control panels recessed

Neal

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Posted by hardcoalcase on Sunday, October 29, 2017 11:00 AM

I recall an item in MR where the modeler used plastic film canisters to recess the toggles.  Gee, that was back in the day when cameras used film!  Huh?

Jim

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Posted by gregc on Sunday, October 29, 2017 11:16 AM

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by 7j43k on Sunday, October 29, 2017 1:39 PM

Or this:

 

 

I found it and other versions by doing a search for "toggle switch protector" and "toggle switch guard".

 

Ed

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Posted by Lone Wolf and Santa Fe on Sunday, October 29, 2017 2:07 PM

Eric White
Where you have multiple switches, you could make a recessed panel.

I agree. The whole panel can be recessed and then you don't lose any aisle space. I think it will look nicer and neater too.

Modeling a fictional version of California set in the 1990s Lone Wolf and Santa Fe Railroad
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Posted by Track fiddler on Sunday, October 29, 2017 2:32 PM

7j43k

Or this:

 

 

I found it and other versions by doing a search for "toggle switch protector" and "toggle switch guard".

 

Ed

 

Ed I'm sorry I just can't resist this one.

When I saw your switch guard and red one on the previous post.  It struck a funny bone.  It reminded me of the missile silo safety precaution, when two-men have to turn a key simultaneously to start the launch sequence.

The same technology could be used on a model railroad to switch a turn out.  

Especially for those modelers using Atlas code 83 Platinum rail.  Lol.

These prestigious modelers should spare no expense.

             Track fiddler

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Posted by 7j43k on Sunday, October 29, 2017 2:54 PM

Curious you should mention that.  I hear there are people so into signaling that they have to use a key to unlock a switch to request permission to unlock a switch so they can throw it.

That's modeling COMMITMENT!  Or is the term committed?

 

Ed

 

PS:  Your suggestion has merit: one might consider using flush mount key switches on the panel.  You don't have a switch key, you don't get to throw a switch.  Hmmmm......

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Posted by Capt.Brigg on Sunday, October 29, 2017 4:36 PM

Apparently this switch guard is no longer available from Milwaukee parts. Too bad.

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Posted by rrebell on Tuesday, October 31, 2017 7:46 AM

OK, time to put my two cents in. I once saw someone use a small recessed cap and they used a peice of tube to insert onto the toggle to move it back and forth. Worked great and looked nice but you had to carry that little peice of pipe with you, but it could be most any length.

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Posted by rrebell on Tuesday, October 31, 2017 7:51 AM

Why not use a small rectangle plastic box rececesed to hold the switch.

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, November 1, 2017 3:52 PM

 Since my fascia buttons don't directly operate the switch motors (there's a bit of electronics in between), I'm simply adding a timeout to be counted as a real press - so a quick glance off the button won;t throw a turnout, but a deliberate press will. Not 100% foolproof, but also since they aren;t toggles they don;t stick out very far to snag on anything. While this means no "Lucy in the candy factory" furious switching, that's actually more the way it should be.

 I will have 'locks' on mainly turnouts, just not key switches. The dispatcher has to unlock the turnout and switch it to local control. I guess I am not "committed" enough to put switch locks on all turnouts. Besides, I'd lose the key and not be able to run my railroad if I did that. Also, if the dispatcher computer is shut off, all the mainline turnouts default to unlocked so I will be able to run trains for fun without having someone hold down the dispatcher position.

                                 --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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