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Guard Rail Installation Requirements/Preferences

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  • Member since
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  • From: Portland, Oregon
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Posted by Attuvian on Friday, October 6, 2017 1:18 PM

Thanks, Mike.

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Posted by mlehman on Friday, October 6, 2017 12:23 PM

Typically, the guardrails are installed on ME track and I use the same code rail as the track is, usually Code 70, sometimes Code 55. I push the rail against the tiny nobs of the tieplate/spike detail. I throw a few spikes down on the side of the guardrail towards the track centerline.

Then, using the Walthers/Shinohara Code 70/83 spikes (948-360, which is what i tend to use for most of my spiking needs), I insert spikes between the two rails, rotating the head enough so when driven home it holds the opposite side of the guardrail. The narrow spike shaft provides reliable spacing between the base of the guardrail and its adjacent running rail.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by Attuvian on Friday, October 6, 2017 9:31 AM

mlehman
Definitely. I always try to sort things out without resorting to the guardrail solution first. But there are certain cars that interact with certain track where it just comes down to installing an extra rail if you want to actually achieve reliable operation. When the rail solves the problems you're having, it's working as intended.
 
 

 
What did you use to gap them and did you use AC?
 
JB
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Posted by mlehman on Friday, October 6, 2017 8:56 AM

Attuvian
Do you find that they actually prevent derailments, not just keep them somewhat "orderly"?

Definitely. I always try to sort things out without resorting to the guardrail solution first. But there are certain cars that interact with certain track where it just comes down to installing an extra rail if you want to actually achieve reliable operation. When the rail solves the problems you're having, it's working as intended.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by Attuvian on Friday, October 6, 2017 8:52 AM

mlehman

I run a mountain railroad. We try to maintain standards, but there are situtions where using a guradrail makes a lot of sense - where stuff derails. . . . . . .  Prototype reasons to install cosmetic guardrails are always good, but simply making things works is Job #1 on the layout.

That's some really nice stuff, Mike.  Do you find that they actually prevent derailments, not just keep them somewhat "orderly"?

John

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Posted by Attuvian on Friday, October 6, 2017 8:47 AM

DSchmitt

Yes! Thanks, Mr. Schmitt.

John

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Posted by mlehman on Friday, October 6, 2017 8:28 AM

I run a mountain railroad. We try to maintain standards, but there are situtions where using a guradrail makes a lot of sense - where stuff derails. Most frequently, problems may crop up when a sharp curve combines with a grade change. Mix in some different length cars, odd trackwork and you get repetitive problems that a guardrail can solve.  Prototype reasons to install cosmetic guardrails are always good, but simply making things works is Job #1 on the layout.

This is a typical sharp grade/curve combo leading to a set of points. "Protecting the snowshed" it emerges from off the pic to the left is a pretty good prototypical reason in this case.

I added another yard lead in Silverton a few years back (far left track here), squeezed in between the wye and the edge of the benchwork. Really helped keep things moving, but at the price of a 17" R curve. The guardrail here keeps things on track, mostly, although I have a K-36 that does no like it.

This is the other end of the same track.

The main entrance to Silverton Yard is kind of hidden. I first hacked a #6 Shinohara to add a new interchange track here, but then built a custom curved turnout. Both needed some guradrail help with their facng points for trains coming off the curve.

In Durango, the return loop is steep and curved and still must reliably handle all locos, including the K-36, plus passenger cars, etc. Thus a guardrail.

Oh boy, no one wants to end up at the bottom of Lime Creek Gulch. So the railroad relies on guardrails to keep trains on the curving, upward climbing bridge.

Then there hacked trackwork, fortunately out of sight unless you're really try.

Finally, a guardrail on a curve, partly because it's sharp and there's a turnout at it's end, but largely because it's a long way down if a derailment happens.

 

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by DSchmitt on Thursday, October 5, 2017 3:55 PM

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by maxman on Thursday, October 5, 2017 3:00 PM

BroadwayLion
Can you see my images now?

No.  Cursor justs spins.

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Thursday, October 5, 2017 12:34 PM

I have made some adjustments to our firewall...

 

Can you see my images now?

 

THANKS

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by ricktrains4824 on Wednesday, October 4, 2017 8:50 PM

Sorry Lion,

But I get no pictures.

Maybe Ramu needs to talk to watchdog on your firewall, and show him who is boss!

Ricky W.

HO scale Proto-freelancer.

My Railroad rules:

1: It's my railroad, my rules.

2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.

3: Any objections, consult above rules.

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Wednesday, October 4, 2017 3:39 PM

Must Call WatchGuard.

 

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by maxman on Wednesday, October 4, 2017 12:39 PM

BroadwayLion

You cannot see my picture???

http://broadwaylion.com/lion/BMT-Signal-GuardRails.jpg

LION has been working on FIREWALL of him, maybe pictures are not gettiong off of my network.

 

Can you see the pictures in my signature? I may have to pay some money to get my Firewall working correctly.

What of my website can you see at broadwaylion.com ???

So far as I can tell there were no pictures in your original post to this thread.  I clicked on the link (http://broadwaylion.com/lion/BMT-Signal-GuardRails.jpg) and the little whirly gig thing just sits and spins.

Same thing when I click on your website link.

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Posted by DSchmitt on Wednesday, October 4, 2017 11:15 AM

BroadwayLion

You cannot see my picture???

http://broadwaylion.com/lion/BMT-Signal-GuardRails.jpg

LION has been working on FIREWALL of him, maybe pictures are not gettiong off of my network.

 

Can you see the pictures in my signature? I may have to pay some money to get my Firewall working correctly.

What of my website can you see at broadwaylion.com ???

GRRRRrrrrrr.....

 

Pictures?

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: North Dakota
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Posted by BroadwayLion on Wednesday, October 4, 2017 10:15 AM

You cannot see my picture???

http://broadwaylion.com/lion/BMT-Signal-GuardRails.jpg

LION has been working on FIREWALL of him, maybe pictures are not gettiong off of my network.

 

Can you see the pictures in my signature? I may have to pay some money to get my Firewall working correctly.

What of my website can you see at broadwaylion.com ???

GRRRRrrrrrr.....

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

  • Member since
    February 2008
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Posted by maxman on Monday, October 2, 2017 2:53 PM

Attuvian
And I thought it was just my computer.

Must be contagious. I sent him a PM asking if there were supposed to be any pictures, but haven't received a reply yet.  He might be out finding new ways to out-Yoda Yoda.

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Posted by Attuvian on Monday, October 2, 2017 2:44 PM

maxman
 
BroadwayLion
Here are guard rails and timbers of the NYCT.

 

Wear B Pitchers???????????????????

 

 

And I thought it was just my computer.

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Posted by maxman on Sunday, October 1, 2017 8:37 AM

BroadwayLion
Here are guard rails and timbers of the NYCT.

Wear B Pitchers???????????????????

  • Member since
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  • From: North Dakota
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Posted by BroadwayLion on Friday, September 29, 2017 10:40 AM

LION SOLDERS the guard rails of him in place.

First place small 1/2 - 3/4 brass (copper or bronze) tacks in a row between every 3rd or 4th tie .

Second place a drop of solder on the top of each nail head.

Third install the guard rail with a tocuh of heat to every nail/solder point.

 

LION CHEATS. Him not user rail. (Rails cost too much money). Hime uses 1/16th" copper clad steel welding rods. Price is under $8.00 for one pound, about fifty 3' peices. Once painted it takes more than a glance to see that I did not use real rail.

Some railroads join the distal ends of the guard rails together, some do not. Some stagger the ends so that one turns in here, and the other one turns in over there. Tha is how LION does it just in case power is transfered to the guard rail by thepassing wheels (Wheelie).

 

Here are guard rails and timbers of the NYCT.

Note the fiberglass walkways that have replaced the wooden walkways.

Also note the yellow flags that are protecting workmen on the tracks about 200' ahead.

From left to right: The third rail with its protection board, a metal bar presumably to maintain spacing beteen the ties since there is no ballast on the elevated structures, the running rail, the guard rail, spare rail parts are stored all around the system since it would be impossible to get any powered equipment in there in the event of a breakate, (Two men with hand tools can go inthere to make a repair.)

Closer to the frog you will see timber guard rails outside of the gauge. Through the curve you also can see timber guards outside of the gauge.

Straight ahead is the Coney Island station where this train is headded albeit making a pass closer to the Coney Island yard and using the same bridge as the adjacent Sea Beach line as it crossses an inlet. A little to the left you can see the wonder wheel.

Wheely

 

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by NittanyLion on Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:09 PM

One guardrail is all you need if you only care about making sure a derailed train goes one way. Example: DC Metro has one guard rail in the above ground stations with center platforms, to protect the platform. If the derailing train flops the other way, not as big a deal. 

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, September 28, 2017 6:26 PM

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by Attuvian on Thursday, September 28, 2017 6:24 PM

BigDaddy
To be clear, it is not dual guage rail, it is track with a one sided guard rail. When would that be prototypical?

 

Henry,

My understanding is that tight curves or those on shelves above rivers and such somtimes had a single guard along the inner rail.  An especially tight radius would require a greater offset in order to avoid wheel flanges routinely scraping against the guard - or wanting to climb it!   Read that some folks have argued that guard rails can defeat their own purpose if something of substance becomes lodged in the gap, increasing the probability of a derailment rather than reducing its effects in tight or at-risk locations.

JB

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, September 28, 2017 6:24 PM

Doh!  I was thinking something in creosote.  Dunce  I'm taking my rivet counter calculator and moving to another thread.  Big Smile

 
 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by jjdamnit on Thursday, September 28, 2017 6:10 PM

Hello all,

BigDaddy
Jjdamnit What is a bread tie?

The little plastic thingies that are used to seal the plastic bags that bread come in.

These are a cheap, and readily available, alternative to styrene shims to electronically isolate the two converging rails.

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, September 28, 2017 6:02 PM

Hiijacking your thread a little bit, I saw Modeltrainstuff had some close out 1 rail guard rail track.  To be clear, it is not dual guage rail, it is track with a one sided guard rail.  When would that be prototypical?

Back to your quesion, I have seen mention of using contact cement to affix rails.  There is a MRVP video of David Popp stripping the ties off N scale code 70 track to use that as guard rails on an HO layout.  He used CA as I recall.

Jjdamnit What is a bread tie?

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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    September 2014
  • From: 10,430’ (3,179 m)
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Posted by jjdamnit on Thursday, September 28, 2017 6:02 PM

Hello all,

Like many things track related each railroad made their own "standards".

On my pike I begin the guard rails 10-feet from the abutment. I bend the rails and grind down one rail to mate to the other.

I use a piece of bread tie between the rails for insulation against shorts.

Some railroads allowed the use of a shoe or frog to tie the rails together.

You can try hot glue to adhere the rails to the ties or scale spikes. You could also try clear silicone caulk, I prefer CA.

I use Atlas Code 100 track and the molded in spikes on the gage side make a perfect guide for the gard rails.

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

  • Member since
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  • From: Portland, Oregon
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Guard Rail Installation Requirements/Preferences
Posted by Attuvian on Thursday, September 28, 2017 5:08 PM

Are there ARR/ICC/industry standards for the installation of guard rails approaching bridges, overpasses, tunnels, on sharp curves and in other applications?  If so, how far back to they go?  If not, were there variations between railroads (or even within the same company) in how they were done?  I'm particularly interested in how often their open ends were brought together to a center point and what specs apply.

And while we're at it, are there preferable means beyond the use of CA for affixing them when installed on one's layout?

Tried to secure at least some of this information using the forum search tool but got lost about ten feet into the woods!  Thanks.

John

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