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pros and cons of not using trackbed?

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  • Member since
    February 2017
  • 102 posts
Posted by JamesNWR05 on Monday, August 21, 2017 5:32 PM

well, based on your feedback i bit the bullet and started laying my roadbed based on the method given by southpenn. will post an update in my layout thread. 

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Posted by SouthPenn on Monday, August 21, 2017 4:14 PM

SeeYou190

 

 
SouthPenn
I have a section of track with no roadbed. It is very noisy compaired to other sections, even at slow speeds.

 

.

I have noticed the noise difference when the layout is being tested, but once ballast is added and glued in place, I can no longer tell a difference in noise levels between areas with roadbed and those without.

.

Has your experience been different? I use Elmer's White Glue-All diluted 10:1 with water to secure ballast in place. Do you get better results with something different? If there is advice for reducing noise, I am all ears! Big Smile

.

-Kevin

 

I also use deluted white glue for my ballast. But my track is handlaid wood ties glued to plywood with white glue. I also used natural stone ballast. Maybe the walnut shell ballast would be quieter. I am thinking of trying the sound deadening stuff used in cars.

South Penn
  • Member since
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Posted by jjdamnit on Monday, August 21, 2017 3:26 PM

Hello all,

JamesNWR05
i have the 24" strips and i've watched the online tutorial hundreds of times, it seems, and still can't seem to get the hang of it.

I'll explain my method (as briefly as I can) using Woodland Scenics foam road bed, this method can also be used for cork.

I have no experience with Homasote.

Tools I use:

  • Trammels; I make my own out of yardsticks and finishing nails. Because I use sectional track I only need 15-, 18- and 22-inch ones. With yardsticks you can make any size you need up to 35-inches.
  • 2-inch "T" pins.
  • Clear Silicone Caulk & Caulk Gun; I prefer GE Silicone I or II, Silicone II sets-up faster, but still has enough working time.
  • 2-inch wide plastic putty knife.
  • Black Sharpie.

From the end of the straight section; at the beginning of the curve and with the appropriate radii trammel, I determine the central vertex of the arc (the "pivot point" of the trammel). 

Then I scribe an arc that the centerline of the track is to follow.

With my trammels, I use nails at both ends. One nail is driven into the foam sub-roadbed; at the central vertex, and the other nail scribes a line in the foam.

You can drill out one end of the trammel to fit a pencil or Sharpie if your sub-roadbed won't take a scribe mark easily.

"S" curves and asymmetrical curves can be scribed by moving the central vertex accordingly and then connect the tangents. Straight sections between the tangents can be added to elongate or open the curves. 

With a black Sharpie, I then trace the scribed line in the foam, to make it easier to follow.

I then split the foam roadbed down the center line. If the halves of the roadbed are uneven, after separating, I put the "thinner" piece on the inside of the curve. 

Next, I place "T" pins on the center line. Depending on the radii of the curve I place more pins on the center line of sharper curves.

Then I put a bead of silicone caulk on one half of the roadbed that will be the inside of the curve. I smooth it out with the plastic putty knife. Any excess I wipe off with a lint-free towel.

I match the end of the inner half of the curve with the end of the straight section.

Using the "T" pins placed on the center line I use them as a guide and press the roadbed into place.

As I go, I use more "T" pins to hold the roadbed in place.

Then I repeat the process on the "outer" half of the roadbed.

Again, using the "T" pins along the center line as a guide and to hold the outer sections in place. 

When done correctly the end of the curve will be uneven (just like laying flex track).

If you are continuing the curve use the same method but dove-tail the sections together, remembering to place the inside of the curve first.

When the curve meets another straight section I prefer to put down the other straight section first.

Then I cut the curved halves just slightly longer than necessary at the joint. When I mate the curved section to the straight I use a utility knife to make the final cut to make the joint in the roadbed.

I allow the silicone to setup for 24-hours before removing the "T" pins holding the roadbed in place. If I am confident in the curve I will remove the "T" pins on the center line and use them elsewhere.

The great thing about using the silicone caulk on foam roadbed is that it will hold it in place once set, but if you need to remove the roadbed it peels up and the caulk can be removed by "balling" by rubbing your fingers over the dried silicone.

After all is set I ballast as I described in this post: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/258968.aspx.

Under the turnouts I use the same method. I don't angle the diverging roadbed, I just leave the uneven halves under the track and allow the ballast to fill in the gaps.

Hope this helps.

 

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: WNY
  • 90 posts
Posted by ACRR46 on Sunday, August 20, 2017 7:59 PM

I prefer cork roadbed.  It comes in 3 ft lengths and is easy to work with.  If you are using cork on a tight curve it may be necessary to put small kerf cuts in the cork on the inner and outer pieces to conform to your curve radius.  I first draw a center line for the curve, apply white glue to one cork strip, then the other.  Use push pins to hold the cork in place until it's dry.  Using a surform tool you can sand the surface from the main line down to your spur tracks.  Give it a try.

  • Member since
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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, August 20, 2017 6:10 PM

SouthPenn
I have a section of track with no roadbed. It is very noisy compaired to other sections, even at slow speeds.

.

I have noticed the noise difference when the layout is being tested, but once ballast is added and glued in place, I can no longer tell a difference in noise levels between areas with roadbed and those without.

.

Has your experience been different? I use Elmer's White Glue-All diluted 10:1 with water to secure ballast in place. Do you get better results with something different? If there is advice for reducing noise, I am all ears! Big Smile

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    August 2011
  • From: A Comfy Cave, New Zealand
  • 6,250 posts
Posted by "JaBear" on Sunday, August 20, 2017 5:25 PM

JamesNWR05
i have the roadbed available, but i am apprehensive about my ability to apply it to my layout correctly.

While I suspect that you could gain the ability, as this is your first attempt at a layout and as you’ve already asked plenty of questions before, (yes, the forum is the proper place to questions) I’d encourage you to get on with the layout build and get laying the track direct to the baseboard.
This is not to say that the previous relies aren’t good value, it’s just that I am well aware of the excuses for procrastination!
 
Have Fun, and remember, we ALL make mistakes, the art is to learn from those mistakes, thereby developing and expanding our abilities.

Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, August 20, 2017 4:02 PM

I've used the Woodland Scenics stuff on a friend's layout, but I didn't care for it at all - too soft and doesn't hold spikes as well as cork or Homasote.
I use cork on my own layout's mainline, but sand it down to nothing for all industrial spurs.  I've put it down using either carpenter's glue or contact cement - each has its own advantages. 

I prefer to use track nails to hold the track and turnouts in place, as they easily allow adjustments before ballast is added.  If the appearance of those nails is an issue, they can be removed after the ballast has dried.

Some track in-place, with ballasting underway...

Note the industrial siding in the left foreground, with the cork sanded down to the level of the plywood layout top.

Wayne

  • Member since
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Posted by JamesNWR05 on Sunday, August 20, 2017 3:45 PM

the thing that confuses me the most is how to lay it for curves. i have the 24" strips and i've watched the online tutorial hundreds of times, it seems, and still can't seem to get the hang of it. should i be using foam tack glue or something else, as you said in your post? additionally, what should i be using for switches? 

BigDaddy

For your reading pleasure

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/261964.aspx

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/260704.aspx

I'm a cork guy myself.  For me model railroading is also mastering new skills, from benchwork to airbrushing.  I am fortunate enough that I could probably afford to buy a custom made railroad, complete with scenery though I've never priced that option.  I would not enjoy it as model railroading because it would be a thing I bought and not something I created. 

Roll up your sleeves and get started. If you are in that much in doubt of you skills, get some latex caulk, some roadbed, and something flat, cardboard, plywood or foam and practice first.

 

  • Member since
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Posted by bearman on Sunday, August 20, 2017 3:14 PM

I have used WS foam roadbed and have had no issues with it.  I dont use roadbed for my spurs and yard, which tracks are sloped down to the foam subroadbed.  I cant really peak to cork since I have never used it, but based on my experience with my club's layout, I think foam is easier to work with.  I apply adhesive caulk, and weight the road bed down with some bricks and within 24 hours you are good to go.

Presumably your railroad area is climate controlled.  Here in Phoenix, layouts in garages where the temperature reaches well over 100, foam roadbed tends to melt.

 

Bear "It's all about having fun."

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted by BigDaddy on Sunday, August 20, 2017 3:08 PM

For your reading pleasure

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/261964.aspx

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/260704.aspx

I'm a cork guy myself.  For me model railroading is also mastering new skills, from benchwork to airbrushing.  I am fortunate enough that I could probably afford to buy a custom made railroad, complete with scenery though I've never priced that option.  I would not enjoy it as model railroading because it would be a thing I bought and not something I created. 

Roll up your sleeves and get started. If you are in that much in doubt of you skills, get some latex caulk, some roadbed, and something flat, cardboard, plywood or foam and practice first.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    March 2015
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Posted by SouthPenn on Sunday, August 20, 2017 3:00 PM

I have a section of track with no roadbed. It is very noisy compaired to other sections, even at slow speeds.

South Penn
  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, August 20, 2017 2:35 PM

The main reason I use roadbed (I think this is what you mean by trackbed), is to get a realistic profile for the ballast.

.

Some people say there are other benefits like sound deadening, spike holding, etc., but I am only concerned with the ballast looking correct. I use it all the time.

.

I hope this helps, at least a little.

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    February 2017
  • 102 posts
pros and cons of not using trackbed?
Posted by JamesNWR05 on Sunday, August 20, 2017 2:14 PM

hi there

I am wondering if there are any negative aspects to not using woodland scenics trackbed? i have the roadbed available, but i am apprehensive about my ability to apply it to my layout correctly. thoughts?

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