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Pidgeon Creek Track Plan Locked

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Pidgeon Creek Track Plan
Posted by OldSchoolScratchbuilder on Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:29 AM

As I continue to enter model railroad magazine articles and other data into my home database, I often come across something that captures my interest for immediate use. Such is the case with the following articles for the Pidgeon Creek layout in Model Railroader magazine:

"Track plan for a first layout," Bill Baron, Model Railroader, Vol. 34(12), December 1967, pp. 52-53 and "Structures for Pidgeon Creek," Bill Baron, Model Railroader, Vol. 34(12), December 1967, pp. 54-55.

I have an experimental layout for R&D on locomotives and rolling stock but to make it more interesting, I am going to reconfigure it to the Pidgeon Creek layout. To see the layout details you'll have to look up these articles. I'll post a few pictures in this thread as I build it. DJ

Designed naval sonars for Canada, the United States, Australia, and other allies as a career in physics. Elected Fellow of the Acoustical Society of America in 2000. Several of my sonar inventions are in the Canada Science and Technology Museum's collection in Ottawa.

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Posted by OldSchoolScratchbuilder on Sunday, July 23, 2017 5:43 PM

I have cleared off a few tables in the basement and will need one more to get started. This means I need to find a place to store a lot of rocks and minerals. I also need another left turnout from the hobby shop for the first stage of the expandable Pidgeon Creek layout. Will buy one tomorrow.

Designed naval sonars for Canada, the United States, Australia, and other allies as a career in physics. Elected Fellow of the Acoustical Society of America in 2000. Several of my sonar inventions are in the Canada Science and Technology Museum's collection in Ottawa.

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, July 24, 2017 5:03 AM

OldSchoolScratchbuilder

I have an experimental layout for R&D on locomotives and rolling stock but to make it more interesting, I am going to reconfigure it to the Pidgeon Creek layout. To see the layout details you'll have to look up these articles. I'll post a few pictures in this thread as I build it. DJ 

OK, DJ, I gotta ask. What happened to the community layout, the Walton R&M Railroad?

Is it on hold while you build the Pidgeon Creek layout?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by fender777 on Monday, July 24, 2017 6:23 AM
Nice collection of Earth moving equipment' where did you get all of those. Thanks
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Posted by OldSchoolScratchbuilder on Monday, July 24, 2017 2:25 PM

fender777
Nice collection of Earth moving equipment' where did you get all of those. Thanks

Majority of them came from Maritime Hobbies & Crafts's suppliers. A few I bought on Amazon when the shipping was free. All of them are 1/87 die-cast - it's what I like. I also have two 1/87 die-cast black Peterbilt trucks with lowboy trailers to carry them on the way from Amazon. DJ

Designed naval sonars for Canada, the United States, Australia, and other allies as a career in physics. Elected Fellow of the Acoustical Society of America in 2000. Several of my sonar inventions are in the Canada Science and Technology Museum's collection in Ottawa.

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Posted by OldSchoolScratchbuilder on Monday, July 24, 2017 2:42 PM

richhotrain

OK, DJ, I gotta ask. What happened to the community layout, the Walton R&M Railroad?

Is it on hold while you build the Pidgeon Creek layout?

Rich

 

 
Pidgeon Creek will be an R&D layout for locomotives, rolling stock, and animated structures. The WR&MR depends on the folks in Walton.

Designed naval sonars for Canada, the United States, Australia, and other allies as a career in physics. Elected Fellow of the Acoustical Society of America in 2000. Several of my sonar inventions are in the Canada Science and Technology Museum's collection in Ottawa.

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, July 24, 2017 3:26 PM

OldSchoolScratchbuilder

The WR&MR depends on the folks in Walton. 

ahh, my bad, I thought that was a done deal.

 

Alton Junction

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Posted by OldSchoolScratchbuilder on Monday, July 24, 2017 8:54 PM

Pidgeon Creek stage one R&D layout complete and trains running. By stage 4 this will be multi-level and at least three times the area. Going to need a bigger budget.

Designed naval sonars for Canada, the United States, Australia, and other allies as a career in physics. Elected Fellow of the Acoustical Society of America in 2000. Several of my sonar inventions are in the Canada Science and Technology Museum's collection in Ottawa.

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, July 25, 2017 5:31 AM

This is the last straw!

I have cancelled my planned trip to Walton to visit the community layout.  Super Angry

Alton Junction

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Posted by OldSchoolScratchbuilder on Tuesday, July 25, 2017 6:17 AM

richhotrain

This is the last straw!

I have cancelled my planned trip to Walton to visit the community layout.  Super Angry

 

What you fail to realize is that once Pidgeon Creek is complete, it is disassembled and moved to Walton where it it is renamed WR&MR, once my friend and business owner finds a suitable location. Unfortunately for Pidgeon Creek, I don't have the money to continue development at this time because my husky's $10k medical bills take priority.

PS. See those three black boxcars? That was your clue - there is more in this picture than you think!

Designed naval sonars for Canada, the United States, Australia, and other allies as a career in physics. Elected Fellow of the Acoustical Society of America in 2000. Several of my sonar inventions are in the Canada Science and Technology Museum's collection in Ottawa.

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Posted by fwright on Tuesday, July 25, 2017 8:46 AM

Congratulations on your progress.  I always liked the Pigeon Hill layout article, and thought it was a great track plan - until I started building it.  I got Phase I completed, just like you.  First time hand laying track - this was in Fall 1975 - when we poor and just getting started.  I had a train running.

Then we realized the rent for our nice duplex was more than we could afford, and had to move across town to an older house.  The older house couldn't fit a 4x8 in the 2nd bedroom (no basements in coastal Oregon), so I had to chop it down to 4x6.

I had also realized that the Pigeon Creek has no passing sidings in the original plan.  To perform any facing point switching would require going around one of the reversing loops or around the oval.  At the time, I hadn't realized the toggle flipping involved with using small reversing loops as runarounds in DC unless some complex relay auto-reversing scheme was come up with.

With only 4x6 in HO, reversing loops are pretty much out of the question.  So I built an adapted version of the Tidewater Central - another MR project layout from 10 years earlier.  Although there is only one passing siding, and most of the switching is on the other side of the oval, I was OK with pushing the cars to be spotted from one side to the other.

just my thoughts and experiences

Fred W

....modeling foggy coastal Oregon in HO and HOn3, where it's always 1900....

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Posted by cuyama on Tuesday, July 25, 2017 11:39 AM

Many of Bill Baron's plans were quite clever, but most or all would require grades significantly steeper than shown to obtain adequate clearances in the benchwork size as drawn. 

As was typical of most published plans then (and even now, frustratingly!), more space is needed to allow for a transition from level-to-grade-and-back at the beginning and end of each grade. 

Also, for reliability’s sake, one should not change grade within or directly adjacent to a turnout. The effect of incorporating these best practices is that the grades become significantly shorter – and thus, much steeper.

One solution that would improve the plan in many ways would be to build it 5X9 or 5X10.

Good luck with your layout.

Byron

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Posted by OldSchoolScratchbuilder on Tuesday, July 25, 2017 1:34 PM

Thanks for the responses. When my wife returns from Calgary the basement will be cleared out and I will expand to 15' x 30'. All my long curved tracks except one, are currently 22". Eventually my mainline will stretch from Halifax to Walton, NS then out to Cigar Lake, Saskatchewan. So from uranium mining and wheat in the west to gypsum and containers In the east. Picked up lots of used track today at the hobby shop for a very good price.

Designed naval sonars for Canada, the United States, Australia, and other allies as a career in physics. Elected Fellow of the Acoustical Society of America in 2000. Several of my sonar inventions are in the Canada Science and Technology Museum's collection in Ottawa.

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Posted by OldSchoolScratchbuilder on Wednesday, July 26, 2017 4:55 PM

Three more turnouts needed to complete Stage 2 of the Pidgeon Creek layout, which I have modified a bit. Nice plan so far. Tomorrow I'll begin designing the slow grade to the second level. I have lots of scrap metal fencing to work with and do something unique.

Designed naval sonars for Canada, the United States, Australia, and other allies as a career in physics. Elected Fellow of the Acoustical Society of America in 2000. Several of my sonar inventions are in the Canada Science and Technology Museum's collection in Ottawa.

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Posted by OldSchoolScratchbuilder on Wednesday, July 26, 2017 5:03 PM

Stage 2 partially complete at the end of today.

Designed naval sonars for Canada, the United States, Australia, and other allies as a career in physics. Elected Fellow of the Acoustical Society of America in 2000. Several of my sonar inventions are in the Canada Science and Technology Museum's collection in Ottawa.

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Posted by OldSchoolScratchbuilder on Wednesday, July 26, 2017 7:01 PM

Hundreds of steel rods all cut and ready for a major civil engineering project for the second level of the modified Pidgeon Creek layout.

Designed naval sonars for Canada, the United States, Australia, and other allies as a career in physics. Elected Fellow of the Acoustical Society of America in 2000. Several of my sonar inventions are in the Canada Science and Technology Museum's collection in Ottawa.

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Posted by OldSchoolScratchbuilder on Thursday, July 27, 2017 1:05 PM

Two more custom track pieces to make and Stage 2 will be complete. It's a nice size with 9 turnouts, more than 50 cars, and one locomotive. Can even make room to park the cars behind the diesel if I wish.

Designed naval sonars for Canada, the United States, Australia, and other allies as a career in physics. Elected Fellow of the Acoustical Society of America in 2000. Several of my sonar inventions are in the Canada Science and Technology Museum's collection in Ottawa.

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Posted by OldSchoolScratchbuilder on Thursday, July 27, 2017 7:50 PM

Expanded the first level of Pidgeon Creek to 5' x 11' today. Tomorrow I'll make those two custom tracks for the diagonal and then begin Stage 3 of the plan. DJ

 

Designed naval sonars for Canada, the United States, Australia, and other allies as a career in physics. Elected Fellow of the Acoustical Society of America in 2000. Several of my sonar inventions are in the Canada Science and Technology Museum's collection in Ottawa.

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Posted by OldSchoolScratchbuilder on Friday, July 28, 2017 6:52 AM

For size scale, the Woodland Scenics Spring Grass vinyl mat in the last picture is about 4' x 8', the smallest size suggested in Bill Baron's article. Will pick up a bit more mat this morning.

Designed naval sonars for Canada, the United States, Australia, and other allies as a career in physics. Elected Fellow of the Acoustical Society of America in 2000. Several of my sonar inventions are in the Canada Science and Technology Museum's collection in Ottawa.

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Posted by joe323 on Friday, July 28, 2017 8:01 AM

Looking at the progress looks good I am guessing this layout will not be sceniked otherwise why bother with the grass mat?

Also it looks like you are using some sectional track any plans to cut the d squares at the end and replace them with ties?

Joe Staten Island West 

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Posted by OldSchoolScratchbuilder on Friday, July 28, 2017 11:15 AM

joe323

Looking at the progress looks good I am guessing this layout will not be sceniked otherwise why bother with the grass mat?

Also it looks like you are using some sectional track any plans to cut the d squares at the end and replace them with ties?

 

Its all going to be moved when my wife returns from Calgary. She's going to help me clean out the basement so for now, just getting the lay of the Pidgeon Creek land. I will use the mats in my work area once everything is in place. DJ

 

Designed naval sonars for Canada, the United States, Australia, and other allies as a career in physics. Elected Fellow of the Acoustical Society of America in 2000. Several of my sonar inventions are in the Canada Science and Technology Museum's collection in Ottawa.

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Posted by OldSchoolScratchbuilder on Friday, July 28, 2017 12:36 PM

joe323

Also it looks like you are using some sectional track any plans to cut the d squares at the end and replace them with ties?

 

 
All my track will be hand laid using real Nova Scotia wood from my woodland property on the Bay of Fundy. I have a brand new band saw that will be set up once the basement has been cleaned out. DJ

Designed naval sonars for Canada, the United States, Australia, and other allies as a career in physics. Elected Fellow of the Acoustical Society of America in 2000. Several of my sonar inventions are in the Canada Science and Technology Museum's collection in Ottawa.

  • Member since
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  • From: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted by OldSchoolScratchbuilder on Friday, July 28, 2017 1:05 PM

Wow! Just completed the Pidgeon Creek diagonal and for the first time I have my train moving in the opposite direction. Love this layout. DJ

Designed naval sonars for Canada, the United States, Australia, and other allies as a career in physics. Elected Fellow of the Acoustical Society of America in 2000. Several of my sonar inventions are in the Canada Science and Technology Museum's collection in Ottawa.

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  • From: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted by OldSchoolScratchbuilder on Friday, July 28, 2017 2:56 PM

Hobby shop was out of this mat so I placed one roll on order. Changed more couplers to metal and bought two used Roundhouse 60' bulkhead flat cars. Also bought a whole bunch of used track for $5.00. After an afternoon nap I'm going to start designing my own elevated track piers From articles and pictures in the literature.

Designed naval sonars for Canada, the United States, Australia, and other allies as a career in physics. Elected Fellow of the Acoustical Society of America in 2000. Several of my sonar inventions are in the Canada Science and Technology Museum's collection in Ottawa.

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, July 28, 2017 5:22 PM

OldSchoolScratchbuilder

Wow! Just completed the Pidgeon Creek diagonal and for the first time I have my train moving in the opposite direction. Love this layout. DJ 

Once you run a train through that diagonal, you aren't going to be able to change the direction again unless you back the train through the diagonal. Are you going to add a reverse loop to solve that problem?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by OldSchoolScratchbuilder on Friday, July 28, 2017 5:25 PM

Conversion of this modified Pidgeon Creek layout to a freelance Walton Rock & Mineral Railroad (WR&MR) layout only involves moving interior tracks to accommodate Walton industries. They include a gypsum quarry, barite mine, processing plant and storage silos, shale quarry and shale products company. Also needed are the Walton River, Hwy 215 with bridge over the river, Minas Basin shoreline, Walton lighthouse, wind turbine, Walton Variety Store, and cattle farm.

Designed naval sonars for Canada, the United States, Australia, and other allies as a career in physics. Elected Fellow of the Acoustical Society of America in 2000. Several of my sonar inventions are in the Canada Science and Technology Museum's collection in Ottawa.

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Posted by OldSchoolScratchbuilder on Friday, July 28, 2017 5:57 PM

richhotrain

 Once you run a train through that diagonal, you aren't going to be able to change the direction again unless you back the train through the diagonal. Are you going to add a reverse loop to solve that problem?

Nope. I am only half finished. Still have Stages 3 and 4 to build.

Designed naval sonars for Canada, the United States, Australia, and other allies as a career in physics. Elected Fellow of the Acoustical Society of America in 2000. Several of my sonar inventions are in the Canada Science and Technology Museum's collection in Ottawa.

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, July 28, 2017 6:05 PM

OldSchoolScratchbuilder
 
richhotrain

 Once you run a train through that diagonal, you aren't going to be able to change the direction again unless you back the train through the diagonal. Are you going to add a reverse loop to solve that problem? 

Nope. I am only half finished. Still have Stages 3 and 4 to build. 

But, will that include a reversing section so that you can continually turn trains in the opposite direction?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by OldSchoolScratchbuilder on Friday, July 28, 2017 6:09 PM

Rich, all of that is taken care of in the next two stages. I suggest you find a copy of the articles I quoted. 

Designed naval sonars for Canada, the United States, Australia, and other allies as a career in physics. Elected Fellow of the Acoustical Society of America in 2000. Several of my sonar inventions are in the Canada Science and Technology Museum's collection in Ottawa.

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, July 28, 2017 7:36 PM

Good lord, can you not answer a simple question? I'm not gonna go looking for a 50 year old article. I simply cannot believe that you won't provide an answer. Do you not understand how a forum works? Someone asks a legitimate question and you blow them off. What is so hard about answering the question, do you intend to provide a reverse loop? Earlier you stated that "for the first time I have my train moving in the opposite direction". Which begs the question, how are you going to return it in the opposite direction once again?

 

Alton Junction

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