Okay, here goes nothing. I need some constructive input here. Doing an around the walls type layout in my older boys room. Closet and entrance will need to be spanned by lift outs of the type to be determined. Current thoughts are building it in a conventional style using 1*4(box style) w/ 2inch of pink foam on top. The walls in between the closet and entrance will be 20" deep and making the ends of each of those sections 45 degrees I can keep easy and full entrance to room and closet(requirement). The other two walls would be over the bed and across a window. If I can keep the same 45 degree at the entry and closet end of those it would hugely simplify my lift outs at the doors. Straight would be easiest as always. So what is my math to keep them all at a 45 while building. Second, does anyone see any issues by me building it a conventional style while using a 1*4 along the walls and setting the benchwork on that and then securing it to that with smaller 5" pieces of cut down 1*4? I can add some 45 degree supports at the ends and middle to bolster it some.(staining the bottom wall board and supports would make mom happy too)
Thoughts and opinions? I don't have a track plan nailed down, but will be using Kato Unitrack in HO.
I can work out the rest of the details, but I'm more concerned about strength of the 20inch wide shelf attacked to the wall. Will running a 1*4 down the wall, then setting benchwork on top of that one and securing it be enough for support. I could add some 45deg supports under it. I could also use a 1*8 on the wall and gain more support that way as well as being able to add supports from the 1*8 to underneath the 20inch portion.
JEREMY CENTANNI I can work out the rest of the details, but I'm more concerned about strength of the 20inch wide shelf attacked to the wall. Will running a 1*4 down the wall, then setting benchwork on top of that one and securing it be enough for support. I could add some 45deg supports under it. I could also use a 1*8 on the wall and gain more support that way as well as being able to add supports from the 1*8 to underneath the 20inch portion.
If you're talking about a 20" wide layout that has 1x4's as the rear and front faces, I don't think that will work at all. If the rear was made with 1x8's, and the front stayed with 1x4's, I think that WOULD work, IF the design is proper.
Ed
You would be better off using 1x3's for Your whole structure. Do not use a board on the wall for support, it would still sag without some kind of bracket, (shelf bracket) to support it. Make a complete box frame for the shelf......long pieces for front to match Your 45 angle, both ends if You need to, your back length 1x3 longer than the front to accomodate the angle and then cross pieces in the inside of the box frame. You then put a shelf bracket on each each long end to match Your 45 cut and then two or more shelf brackets in the center spaced apart mounted under Your cross pieces depending upon how long it will be. Make sure You mount the shelf brackets into the studs. It will be light weight and strong. Will be removable, if need be. You could mount the foam directly on the box frame.....no need for a sub- board, just keep all Your cross pieces at 16'' on center. If the shelf was 8ft long You would need 4 shelf brackets, one on each end and two spaced out in the center with the 16'' cross members. Will look like a ladder with two 45 angle ends.
You could evem get by with 1x2'' if they were square cuts and it would still be strong enough to support a layout 20'' wide, the placing of the brackets is a key point. If You decide to use the 1x2'', I recommend glueing with carpenters glue all the joints with screws, You can even do the same with the 1x3'', it will be extremely strong. My whole layout is built that way and You can stand on it......I've built shelf layouts also that way.....never had a problem......but I use 1/2''ply, with 1/2''Homasote on top......never cared for the use of foam for a layout top.
Get Yourself one of these and learn how to use it...quite simple:
https://www.amazon.com/Swanson-S0101-7-inch-Square-Layout/dp/B00002255O/ref=sr_1_4/130-7978947-5809621?ie=UTF8&qid=1498215029&sr=8-4&keywords=carpenters+square
Good Luck!
Frank
Dig up the original article by Bill Darnaby on foam board for a model railroad. He made it work with brackets only, no logitudinal frame - you don't need it. He made brackets using shelf brackets and a 1x2 or 1x3 and the foam ran along that. Forget exactly what issue that was - somewhere in '94 or '95 I think.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I assume 2 inch dense foam wouldn't sag front to back with a 20 inch span. It would sag along the wall, but not out from it. Here's what I would do:
Attach shelf brackets every 32 to 48 inches along the wall, depending upon where the studs are located. Attach 1x3s or 1x4s on top of the brackets so it lengthens the brackets to 20 inches. String three long 1x2s or 1x3s, skinny end up for rigidity, along the wall and outward at the midpoint and the 20 inch mark, then set the foam on the three 1xs and attach with the adhesive of your liking. The foam will be supported every ten inches out from the wall along its entire length. Finish off the front with another 1x for appearence, keeping some of the 2 inch foam revealed for shaping under-track contours at the front of the scene. That 1x fascia should be able to match the front of your liftout(s) and will tend to form a secure box when combined with the undersupports and the wall.
Use Select lumber so the 1xs are as "unbowed" as possible.
- Douglas
http://www.kitchensource.com/supports-brackets/ha-287.55.361.htm?p=HA-287.55.363
layer of masonite with pink foam guled to top.
Steve
This is what I did. " alt="" />
Project Yellow has begun.
Went with dual track shelf mountings down both walls from entry door to corner and from the corner to the closet. I've built both sections using 1*4 casing (staightest cheapest option around here.
Debtaing using 1/4 or 1/8 inch plywood on top for some support/scenery options.
Having a 118 year old house, I had to use shims under the risers at various places to get everything straight, level, plumb etc. My 4' level was an indispensable tool. I used 5/8" plywood with 1" foam over that.
I've done a layout using those and it worked fine. Would do it again in similar circumstances. I've also done bookshelf modules using those brackets from an article by Bob Lutz way back in the Jan 77 MR. Those modules were great and saw me through an AF career and several moves without damage. Something I've contemplated is doing a similar module but using a French Cleat rather than the wall brackets for a cleaner design.
jim
I could be a day late and a dollar short on this one. If by chance you haven't started this project yet and you have some tools this is a cheap way to do it without buying all kinds of hardware. All you need is one by twos and drywall screws. Or you could use wood glue and just shoot them. I supported the bar under the window in my porch years ago and it's very strong it gets lots of elbow weight. If you use screws use a countersink bit so you don't split the wood.
Edit. It looks more difficult than it really is all you do is scale it out on a piece of plywood and put jig Marks the side of of your power miter box after you've got all the pieces for the first one.
Track fiddler I could be a day late and a dollar short on this one. If by chance you haven't started this project yet and you have some tools this is a cheap way to do it without buying all kinds of hardware. All you need is one by twos and drywall screws. Or you could use wood glue and just shoot them. I supported the bar under the window in my porch years ago and it's very strong it gets lots of elbow weight. If you use screws use a countersink bit so you don't split the wood. Edit. It looks more difficult than it really is all you do is scale it out on a piece of plywood and put jig Marks the side of of your power miter box after you've got all the pieces for the first one.
Main(largest) section has most of the heavy work done now. Need to finish it and level and secure it. Then work on the rest of it from there. I decided on the shelf bracket arrangment for the fact that I can have a 20-24" background for the layout and still get two shelves over it the length of the walls(2 birds with one stone).
However I can see you were reading my mind because I am planning something very similar for the corner section on the other wall :-) Any ideas you have throw them up I appreciate it and might find something better.
Have to do some major tree whacking in the yard Fri. when I'm off, so hoping to have a little time to work on it again.
Spent another day cutting trees all morning................
I only quit when my sister in law and nephew stopped by with the trailer to hit Menards. 2 1/4 luanne plywod and 2 2" 4*8 foam sheets came home with me.
Cut luanne to fit the already made frames and did the same with the foam and they are currently in the garage with weights on to hold it until the loctite power grab sets.
Hoping to install the sections late tomorrow or Thurs. afternoon. So progressing slowly, but surely. Will get some pics up when I get it installed.
Santa Fe all the way!
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
That is another nice solution. I saw that in some other threads when I was looking around. Depending on the area or if I end up with different space or place I would definitely consider it.