Thanks, Randy. Besides building the CNJ Bronx Terminal in HO, Tim Warris also demonstrated that N scale is feasible with his method and tools. His N scale sections are in Code 40, though. I built mine with Code 55 which made it a bit easier.
Andreas
www.harlemrivercrossways.com/blog
Wow - an N scale version of Bronx Terminal? That is absolutely amazing. I was blown away by the custom trackwork Tim Warris did for an HO version, but to do it in N scale - holy cow! Amazing stuff.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Dennis S. - Central Rockies RRI have mixed dry, powdered wood glue with my ballast. Laid the ballast where I needed it and cleaned off the surplus. After I was sure that everything was working and clear, I misted it with wet water, thus setting the glue. This solution is virtually permanent but works.
Sounds like a very smart approach to ballasting critical parts of track. How long does it take to cure?
I just spray them with WD40. Never had a problem.
Hi,
I know this is late but might be useful to tuck away for a future build. I have mixed dry, powdered wood glue with my ballast. Laid the ballast where I needed it and cleaned off the surplus. After I was sure that everything was working and clear, I misted it with wet water, thus setting the glue. This solution is virtually permanent but works. The glue is a powdered resin wood glue made by a variety of manufacturers.
Anyway, my 1 cents worth.
Dennis
Heap-Big Chief Engineer & COO
Andreas, de nada. I know what you mean about the unnatural shine of the graphite, especially in places where it's been burnished, and quite noticeable in photos too. The same is true of Molykote Z.
Regards, Peter
HO-VeloI'll post the results from my little PCB tie/graphite bench tests on the general discussion section of the forum.
Thanks, Peter, for your great help. There's actually one more reason for using Kadee Greas'em graphite sparingly. Every single particle of graphite that ended up on the ballast instead of the PCB tie was very well visible. The little crystals reflect the light in a very irritating (polarized?) way. Better to mask everything that should not get graphite before applying it.
UES Nscaler Meanwhile, I have completed the ballasting of my N scale freight yard layout. Here’s a summary of what I did and what I have learned when ballasting hand-laid turnouts and crossovers. I always worked in small batches – I did one turnout at a time and finished it before proceeding to the next one. In case something goes wrong, you need to focus 100% on that problem and you can't deal with multiple issues at the same time. I worked carefully and with patience (following Cody Grivno’s advice in his video). I used appropriate tools to apply ballast, isopropyl alcohol, and glue in a very targeted manner (forget the spray bottle!). I always started with the outside of the turnouts, working towards the center. By doing the shoulders first the more delicate parts of the switch get walled off from wandering glue. Perhaps even more critical than controlling the flow of PVA glue is the controlling of the isopropyl alcohol as it acts as a fluxing agent to the glue. The smaller the amount of isopropyl alcohol and diluted PVA glue that your tools can apply, the better. I switched from my syringe to a pipette as it allowed me to better control the amount of alcohol and glue. I covered painter’s tape to cover the throw-bar and the hinges of the turnout, but only while adding ballast. As soon as began to apply alcohol I removed the tape. You need to see where the stuff flows and you need to be able to step in immediately when alcohol or glue spreads where it shouldn't! I used a cotton swab and a micro brush to absorb glue and to clean ties and rails that should stay dry. For the outside of the turnouts and the area between turnouts, I always followed the sequence ballast-alcohol-glue. For ballasting the inside between the rail and ties I switched to the glue-ballast sequence. The amount of ballast that will stick to the roadbed is smaller but that’s okay – it matches the prototype. After the ballasting procedure, I cleaned up the web of the rails from glued ballast. Also, I removed all ballast between guard and wing rails and the frog immediately by using a tooth pick or even a small screwdriver. As it was suggested here, lubricating the throw-bar and the point rails with an oil or graphite powder also helped avoiding sticky turnouts. I used both Labelle 108 and Kadee Greas-em graphite in small amounts. A word of caution, though, when using graphite. In one case of lubricating a throw-bar, I must have applied it a bit too generously and it caused a short. I let Peter (HO Velo) comment on his tests with graphite and his conclusions. I had better follow his suggestion for using a non-conducting lubricant like Molykote Z instead of graphite. Thanks again everyone for your valuable help. I did not need to resort to some of your suggested techniques, like using textured spray. It was good to know that there would be a plan B in case things went wrong. That gave me the confidence to ballast my layout without wrecking it. Check out my blog if you are interested in more details and photos. Regards, Andreas www.harlemrivercrossways.com/blog
Meanwhile, I have completed the ballasting of my N scale freight yard layout. Here’s a summary of what I did and what I have learned when ballasting hand-laid turnouts and crossovers.
I always worked in small batches – I did one turnout at a time and finished it before proceeding to the next one. In case something goes wrong, you need to focus 100% on that problem and you can't deal with multiple issues at the same time. I worked carefully and with patience (following Cody Grivno’s advice in his video). I used appropriate tools to apply ballast, isopropyl alcohol, and glue in a very targeted manner (forget the spray bottle!). I always started with the outside of the turnouts, working towards the center. By doing the shoulders first the more delicate parts of the switch get walled off from wandering glue. Perhaps even more critical than controlling the flow of PVA glue is the controlling of the isopropyl alcohol as it acts as a fluxing agent to the glue. The smaller the amount of isopropyl alcohol and diluted PVA glue that your tools can apply, the better. I switched from my syringe to a pipette as it allowed me to better control the amount of alcohol and glue.
I covered painter’s tape to cover the throw-bar and the hinges of the turnout, but only while adding ballast. As soon as began to apply alcohol I removed the tape. You need to see where the stuff flows and you need to be able to step in immediately when alcohol or glue spreads where it shouldn't! I used a cotton swab and a micro brush to absorb glue and to clean ties and rails that should stay dry.
For the outside of the turnouts and the area between turnouts, I always followed the sequence ballast-alcohol-glue. For ballasting the inside between the rail and ties I switched to the glue-ballast sequence. The amount of ballast that will stick to the roadbed is smaller but that’s okay – it matches the prototype.
After the ballasting procedure, I cleaned up the web of the rails from glued ballast. Also, I removed all ballast between guard and wing rails and the frog immediately by using a tooth pick or even a small screwdriver. As it was suggested here, lubricating the throw-bar and the point rails with an oil or graphite powder also helped avoiding sticky turnouts. I used both Labelle 108 and Kadee Greas-em graphite in small amounts. A word of caution, though, when using graphite. In one case of lubricating a throw-bar, I must have applied it a bit too generously and it caused a short. I let Peter (HO Velo) comment on his tests with graphite and his conclusions. I had better follow his suggestion for using a non-conducting lubricant like Molykote Z instead of graphite.
Thanks again everyone for your valuable help. I did not need to resort to some of your suggested techniques, like using textured spray. It was good to know that there would be a plan B in case things went wrong. That gave me the confidence to ballast my layout without wrecking it. Check out my blog if you are interested in more details and photos.
Regards, Andreas
UES Nscalercomment on his tests with graphite and his conclusions
Andreas, Good of you to follow-up with your successful ballasting methods and the not so good result of lubing PCB ties with graphite. I'll post the results from my little PCB tie/graphite bench tests on the general discussion section of the forum.
BTW, your track work is excellent.
Dave, you're welcome, but it was just an idea I had as I read through the other suggestions.
To add to that, one could theoretically take those same afformentioned photo veneered balsa pieces and glue some ballast on top prior to placing the balsa between the ties. You wouldn't want to get it to near the edges, but you could add just enough to give it a little texture. I've never tried any of that so YMMV.
If you go that route be sure and post pics! My wife and I will have 12 turnouts on our layout so I'll be giving this a go, but it'll be a while; we're still trying to clear out the clutter as we transistion from 'slot car room' to 'railroad room'. lol
bibbster:
Thank you for an excellent tutorial on how to safely and properly ballast turnouts.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
HO-Velo Bibbster, Thanks for the compliment. Regards, Peter
Bibbster, Thanks for the compliment.
Very impressive, sir. Thank you for the additional inspiration!
A thought I had, and I don't see it mentioned unless I overlooked it, but what about taking a photo of ballast, printing it on cardstock with a color printer, and sliding that under the track? I guess you could even mount it to some balsa that is thick enough to get the photo to the height of the ties and then cut out pieces to fit between the rails. Tedious work but you wouldn't have to worry about glue and such with a snug press fit.
HO-Velo I was wondering about Monstermodelworks cracked pavement and yours looks great!
I was wondering about Monstermodelworks cracked pavement and yours looks great!
Thank you, Peter. If you like working with the real stuff like wood, plants, and minerals, then MonsterModelWorks products are a great addition. I also use their cobblestone, concrete, and block stone walls extensively and can recommend them. I'm getting off topic now, so will stop here...
Andreas,
I'm in awe of your modeling and find your site very inspiring and informative.
I enjoyed viewing many photos of New York tug & barge operations when planning my carfloat served ISL. Also viewed Tim Warris's superb trackwork & modeling.
Thanks & regards, Peter
HO-Velo All ballast materials and rock powders are Arizona Rock & Mineral Co. products.
All ballast materials and rock powders are Arizona Rock & Mineral Co. products.
I'm using their products too (in addition to Scenic Express ballast) - I love to work with them.
http://www.harlemrivercrossways.com/
Thanks Andreas. ISL yard area. All ballast materials and rock powders are Arizona Rock & Mineral Co. products.
Amazing trackwork, Peter! Is this the mainline or a rail yard?
Welcome to the forums.
I agree with Scott, find a textured paint in a rattle can that most nearly matches your ballast. You can still add some ballast to the turnout, but it doesn't take nearly as much to make it look good.
Good luck,
Richard
UES NscalerMolykote Z
The Fastracks point rails needed extra lubrication over the ties and I had Molykote Z on hand, but I think that graphite or Kadee Greas-em would work just fine.
UES Nscaler dknelson I tried this when installing some of the Peco turnouts on my layout. I put a piece of black duct tape underneath the ties starting to the throwbar to the end of the points. The duct tape thus has its sticky side facing up. I trim the edges to be even with the ends of the ties. I put just enough ballast on the sticky part of the tape to hold (perhaps tamping it in with a Q tip) so the tape is completely covered. How permanent is this solution? I understand that duct tape uses a very strong water resistant adhesive. Doesn't it age over time, however, and lose its tackiness? Andreas
dknelson I tried this when installing some of the Peco turnouts on my layout. I put a piece of black duct tape underneath the ties starting to the throwbar to the end of the points. The duct tape thus has its sticky side facing up. I trim the edges to be even with the ends of the ties. I put just enough ballast on the sticky part of the tape to hold (perhaps tamping it in with a Q tip) so the tape is completely covered.
I tried this when installing some of the Peco turnouts on my layout. I put a piece of black duct tape underneath the ties starting to the throwbar to the end of the points. The duct tape thus has its sticky side facing up. I trim the edges to be even with the ends of the ties. I put just enough ballast on the sticky part of the tape to hold (perhaps tamping it in with a Q tip) so the tape is completely covered.
How permanent is this solution? I understand that duct tape uses a very strong water resistant adhesive. Doesn't it age over time, however, and lose its tackiness?
It has lasted several years without problems. I try hard NOT to get water based glue or alchohol (used in the rest of my ballasting) on the tape, ever. Duct tape does lose its great stickiness over time, but you don't need much stickiness to hold ballast in place, and it is not like I am trying to rub the ballast off the tape.
Another technique I have tried (but am not prepared to commit to it on the layout itself; I have worked up numerous ideas as part of a clinic I give from time to time on ballasting track and in particular turnouts, and I bring samples of ballasted turnouts I can pass around during the clinic) is to use one of those "textured" spray paints. There is one that is surprisingly similar to the C&NW pink lady ballast I use on my layout. When installing the turnout I slice or mill out a thin gap in the cork underneath the points, about the size of a playing card. I spray the textured spray paint on a very thin shim (wood or styrene and I suppose even cardstock could be tried) and slip it into that gap after the turnout is in place. Am I making myself clear?
Dave Nelson
HO-Velo Thanks to Joe Fugate's method and a bit of luck a couple dozen Fastrack HO turnouts ballasted and no stuck throwbars.
Thanks to Joe Fugate's method and a bit of luck a couple dozen Fastrack HO turnouts ballasted and no stuck throwbars.
Thanks for the helpful link, Peter, one more very useful technique. One question though: Molykote Z seems to be a very expensive surrogate for graphite. Before I'd buy it I'd like to understand why graphite is not good enough.
For all the various approaches there seems to be one common rule - that is to work slowly, carefully and to be patient. See also Cody Grivno's MRVP video "Thin Branch Series: Ballasting turnout".
Having looked at a couple of prototype turnouts in my local inustrial park, an observation.
The headblock ties (the ones with the throwbar between) are set on top of tamped ballast. There is NO ballast above tie-bottom level to interfere with the throwbar. All the other ties are anchored by heaped ballast to the tie tops.
Since the wooden ties of my hand-laid specialwork go directly on a grey-painted cardstock track template it's easy to simulate the look - and enjoy the obvious advantages.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
What I have done is to glue the ballast down next to the turnout with full strength white glue that I have brushed in place, one tie over will due but to be real safe do two. Just paint the area to be ballasted with white glue and pour on the ballast pushing down slightly with your finger (don't use too much white glue, just paint as if you were trying to cover a dark color with say yellow).
Interesting video but is it really necessary to glue between the ties? I never do anymore because the residue just leads to problems and ballast gets stuck to the inside of the rails.
Rich
Alton Junction
Very nice, Peter! Do you have a 'directly overhead' shot of your turnouts?
I'm with you,
UES Nscalernot to ballast is not an option
Thanks to Joe Fugate's method and a bit of luck a couple dozen Fastrack HO turnouts ballasted and no stuck throwbars. http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/6802
Although the Fastracks turnouts have a healthy gap between the bottom of the throwbars and the roadbed I still carefully masked-off the throwbar.
For pointrail/tie lube I substituted Molykote Z for the graphite and used a dental irrigating curved tip syringe for accurate and controlled delivery of the wetting agent and glue.
Give this a look for another process that may work for you.
I just paint the area of the frog black and cover it with painters tape no ballast.
Joe Staten Island West
Hi Andreas!
Welcome to the forums!!
I think this is a great question, and I like some of the answers like the idea of using upside down duct tape. My club has experienced the folly of getting glue and ballast in the wrong places, and we will be facing the same issue again in the reasonably near future because we will be building a new layout. Since we seem to favour black ballast for the mainlines, black duct tape would be ideal.
Cheers!