Doughless tomikawaTT Doughless Operationally, it really doesn't matter if the cars stop at the mine or extend through the mine if it was located in the middle of the tracks. Nobody operates a slow moving loading operation. I assume you will simply park the unloaded cut of hoppers and pickup the loaded cut. That operation looks better with the mine at the end, IMO. Nobody reporting, Suh! Not yet, but will be when the live carloader is installed in the clean/sort facility. Whatever open-tops are available (Se - coal hoppers or To - gons) will be pushed past the load point by the colliery switcher, then filled with pool filter charcoal as they are pulled out from under. Tack on a brake van if there's no SeFu present, have a line-haul teakettle couple up and send the loads downhill to the JNR interchange. That exactly parallels what I saw and photographed in 1:1 scale back in 1959. Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964) I stand corrected ! I hope the process is automated, rather than having an operator standing....then sitting....then falling asleep..... at the throttle slowly pushing a realistic cut of cars through the mine as they load. But each person has their own definition of fun.
tomikawaTT Doughless Operationally, it really doesn't matter if the cars stop at the mine or extend through the mine if it was located in the middle of the tracks. Nobody operates a slow moving loading operation. I assume you will simply park the unloaded cut of hoppers and pickup the loaded cut. That operation looks better with the mine at the end, IMO. Nobody reporting, Suh! Not yet, but will be when the live carloader is installed in the clean/sort facility. Whatever open-tops are available (Se - coal hoppers or To - gons) will be pushed past the load point by the colliery switcher, then filled with pool filter charcoal as they are pulled out from under. Tack on a brake van if there's no SeFu present, have a line-haul teakettle couple up and send the loads downhill to the JNR interchange. That exactly parallels what I saw and photographed in 1:1 scale back in 1959. Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Doughless Operationally, it really doesn't matter if the cars stop at the mine or extend through the mine if it was located in the middle of the tracks. Nobody operates a slow moving loading operation. I assume you will simply park the unloaded cut of hoppers and pickup the loaded cut. That operation looks better with the mine at the end, IMO.
Operationally, it really doesn't matter if the cars stop at the mine or extend through the mine if it was located in the middle of the tracks. Nobody operates a slow moving loading operation. I assume you will simply park the unloaded cut of hoppers and pickup the loaded cut. That operation looks better with the mine at the end, IMO.
Nobody reporting, Suh!
Not yet, but will be when the live carloader is installed in the clean/sort facility. Whatever open-tops are available (Se - coal hoppers or To - gons) will be pushed past the load point by the colliery switcher, then filled with pool filter charcoal as they are pulled out from under. Tack on a brake van if there's no SeFu present, have a line-haul teakettle couple up and send the loads downhill to the JNR interchange.
That exactly parallels what I saw and photographed in 1:1 scale back in 1959.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I stand corrected !
I hope the process is automated, rather than having an operator standing....then sitting....then falling asleep..... at the throttle slowly pushing a realistic cut of cars through the mine as they load. But each person has their own definition of fun.
Nobody here (either) lol. Lone wolves do stuff like that because they are in no rush and pretending to load the cars is part of the fun. I bought a GP7 just special to work my Cargill grain mill. On my layout all of the loading areas are in the middle of the track.
However, I do think your model looks better at the end close to the wall because it does make it look like there is a whole lot more unseen track on the other side.
Like Mr. Otte said, on the prototype the mine would usually be located near the middle of the tracks. My grandfather worked at a coal breaker, and the railroad would stage the empty cars uphill of the breaker, where they could then be rolled down a few at a time for loading. On your model, where the tracks run into the wall would be the "uphill" end.
Two ways of modeling the scene occur to me, given the track arrangement photographed. If you want to have the entire operation modeled, and have your operators leave empty cars "uphill", place the mine halfway down the tracks so that a given cut of cars could be staged empty "uphill" of the breaker, and full "downhill" of the breaker without fouling the switches. If you're OK with your operators leaving the empties "downhill" of the mine and want longer coal trains, put the mine up agains the wall and use a small mirror underneath to make it appear that the tracks continue on the other side of the structure. A couple trees would help hide the edge of the mirror and the joint between the mine and the wall.
Some breakers had tracks downhill of the breaker for storing loaded cars, and the cars would be rolled down to those tracks. In this case, the mine would be much closer to the switches, since the loaded cars can be stored elsewhere.
Modeling the Pennsy and loving it!
- Douglas
Doughless I think having the mine against the wall is a better location. Since the wall acts as a backdrop, it privdes the illusion the tracks extend past the mine, looking like there is are longer cuts of cars. Operationally, it really doesn't matter if the cars stop at the mine or extend through the mine if it was located in the middle of the tracks. Nobody operates a slow moving loading operation. I assume you will simply park the unloaded cut of hoppers and pickup the loaded cut. That operation looks better with the mine at the end, IMO.
I think having the mine against the wall is a better location. Since the wall acts as a backdrop, it privdes the illusion the tracks extend past the mine, looking like there is are longer cuts of cars.
I tend to agree with Nittany Lion and Doughless and toward the wall end was my first thought. It seems like less potential headaches with reaching under the building for derailed cars and cleaning track. Also I think with a little ingenuity and the right scenery I could even incorporate a mirror in between the tipple and wall that could really extend the scene. And yes, the intent is to just drop the empties and pick up the loads.
Two thoughts:
1) are you planning on working the mine or just spotting the empties there and removing the loads "later?"
2) butted up against the wall helps with the backdrop and has more space, making the mine look like it can handle more traffic.
If I was doing it, I'd have mine against the wall.
restorator This is what I have to work with:
This is what I have to work with:
I'll probably be doing something like that as well.
BTW, that mine (Walthers New River Mine) is a selectively compressed version of the of a mine on the D&RGW Yamp Valley branch line. It is closed now but in later years it received a flood loader.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
One mine I 'minefanned' in Japan had a massive concrete headframe over a vertical shaft with two elevators - carried personnel both ways, empty spoil carts down, full spoil carts up. The coal came up in dual skips running in a sloped shaft to a surge bin, connected to the clean/sort structure (similar to the Walthers mine in reverse) by an open conveyor. The original mine entrance was a shallow-slope adit, gated closed at the time I was there. All of the auxiliary shops were oriented around the tracks that led to that original entry.
The prototype for the Walthers mine was the loading facility for an open pit mine - a mile away, over a ridge and not directly accessible by road. That rear-side conveyor actually sloped up from the structure, since it came out from under a large covered surge bin close to the ridge line.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with two collieries from Fukuoka-ken in 1959)
gregci agree, but wondered if the track would always be on a grade that allowed workers at the mine to simply release the brakes on the cars to move the next empty under the tipple without needing a switcher engine. is this true?
I've switch a few mine load outs while working on the Chessie..The track was flat at those mines and a car puller or a "mule" was use to move the cars.
A mule looked like a Alco switcher without a cab with control booths on the steps. One had a greenish SW1..
If the worker released the brakes to move the cars then he would need to ride the cars and depending on the size of the cut more then one man would be needed to man at least two-three brakes.
Fun tibit..It takes around a hour to switch out a mine load out by the time you check and connect air hoses as needed,turn on the air cocks and inspect the retainers and pump the air. You never take anything for granted.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
on the topic of coal mines, I've always been puzzled by models where the mine shaft is on the side of the hill.
since i'm interested in anthracite mines of the Reading, i admit i'm biased toward them and their construction in the early 1900s. They tended to be built on the sides of mountains, the shaft near the top of the mountain and the coal dropping down through the colliery so that waste can be removed.
much simpler mines had head frames to raise coal and waste
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
Just about every imaginable method was used at one place or another. They have used winches with cable, poling (using a pole and have a locomotive shove a car with the pole between them...illegal in many places), using an automobile, horses, gravity assist, and even small 'mules' with a clutched gas engine on them and a single rubber tire that provides traction atop the rail.
gregc Steven Otte Prototypically, the mine tipple would be around the middle of the loading tracks, as there has to be room for strings of empties to be pushed back behind the tipple and pulled forward as the cars are loaded. i agree, but wondered if the track would always be on a grade that allowed workers at the mine to simply release the brakes on the cars to move the next empty under the tipple without needing a switcher engine. is this true?
Steven Otte Prototypically, the mine tipple would be around the middle of the loading tracks, as there has to be room for strings of empties to be pushed back behind the tipple and pulled forward as the cars are loaded.
i agree, but wondered if the track would always be on a grade that allowed workers at the mine to simply release the brakes on the cars to move the next empty under the tipple without needing a switcher engine. is this true?
depends on the era you model older mines most commonly used would use gravity or winch cables to move cars, newer flood loaders use road power to move cars through loadout .
BigDaddy Mel The tower on your coal mine reminds me of the mine my grandfather worked in. I didn't realize it until now, but that is what is missing from the Walthers kit and why kit mines don't quite look right to me. Is that a scratch built model? Years ago I took pictures of his mine, but have no idea where those pictures would be now. I never figured my photos would be a reference for model railroading back then. Had some great pics of Baltimore before they redid the waterfront and when people actually went to small and large stores to shop downtown.
Mel
The tower on your coal mine reminds me of the mine my grandfather worked in. I didn't realize it until now, but that is what is missing from the Walthers kit and why kit mines don't quite look right to me. Is that a scratch built model?
Years ago I took pictures of his mine, but have no idea where those pictures would be now. I never figured my photos would be a reference for model railroading back then. Had some great pics of Baltimore before they redid the waterfront and when people actually went to small and large stores to shop downtown.
that tower is called a headframe shaft mines have it drift mines don't. the usgov.org site has several drawings of headframes in the haer/habs section.
This is what I have to work with. The first pic is near the begining of the yard:
This is near the middle:
And this is the near the end of the tracks:
And this is the mine close up in the begining stages of weathering. Not even the first "rust" coat finished yet. No walkways etc. But I did open almost every window and even "broke" a couple.
BigDaddy Mel The tower on your coal mine reminds me of the mine my grandfather worked in. I didn't realize it until now, but that is what is missing from the Walthers kit and why kit mines don't quite look right to me. Is that a scratch built model? Henry
Henry
Steven OttePrototypically, the mine tipple would be around the middle of the loading tracks, as there has to be room for strings of empties to be pushed back behind the tipple and pulled forward as the cars are loaded.
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Prototypically, the mine tipple would be around the middle of the loading tracks, as there has to be room for strings of empties to be pushed back behind the tipple and pulled forward as the cars are loaded. You don't want to be fouling the main, or the turnouts to the other loading tracks, during either part of this process.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
Hi all. I have been getting back into the hobby after a 25 year hiatus. I have moved up to HO scale as the eyes arent what they used to be!
In any case my question relates to the best placement of a mine building in relation to the trackwork on a model railroad. I have the Walthers new river mine assembled and am in the process of weathering and detailing and I have the trackwork laid down. This is a stub end yard that could dissapear into the scenery.
The question relates to modeling, not prototype operation. Is it better to have the mine near the begining of the mine yard or closer to the end in our fictional selectively compressed world?