Okay I've done a bit of research for this layout of mine and so far drawn blank on two things whilst planning. Apart from the end product short of being two glorified dioramas linked together.
Splines factor in to the equation as I'm a steam guy and I have articulateds through to 0-4-0Ts and I need to have bullet track being steam locomotives are more senseitve than diesels. For the splines I'm thinking of using cork as I'm not aware of homasote being sold here in Australia and if it was it would probably be a bit expensive, apart from that has anyone done splines in cork before and please advise.
With the layout being two significant passing points being model (bear in mind this is my first serious attempt at a layout) on a mainline and only these passing points selectivly compressed, how much staging should I have to accomadate the mainline trains. I'm trying to find schedules and timetables of the SAR (south Australian Railways) in the era I'm modelling late 20s to 30s so I can get a wrough idea.
Thoughts are to just build a 4-8 track staging yard either under the layout or a third deck above the layout and go from their.
Thoughts and ideas appreicated thankyou
Cam
SAR 500Splines factor in to the equation as I'm a steam guy and I have articulateds through to 0-4-0Ts and I need to have bullet track being steam locomotives are more senseitve than diesels.
Splines don't necessarily allow one to build more reliable track than plywood. In fact, plywood is much more likely to help you avoid small variations that can be tricky for stiff steamers. Splines help create flowing easements, but that's also easy with plywood and a jigsaw.
SAR 500For the splines I'm thinking of using cork as I'm not aware of homasote being sold here in Australia and if it was it would probably be a bit expensive, apart from that has anyone done splines in cork before and please advise.
I don't know of anyone who has built splines from cork and I wouldn’t recommend it. Splines are often built from wood strips (with or without spacer blocks), so Homasote is not a requirement.
Google image search "wood spline model railroad"
Good luck with your layout.
Byron
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Somewhere quite recently, (probably May or June MR) I saw splines made from tempered hardboard, Masonite on this side of the Pacific or equator. Comes in 1/8 3/16 and 1/4" thickneses
The idea of spline doesn't appeal to me, but I would not use cork, it dries out and eventually deteriorates. The hardboad is certainly less messy than Homasote, and easy to cut strips on a table saw.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Staging takes careful planning, especially if you are putting it on another level. You have to be able to physically access it, but you've got to understand that getting trains from one level to another takes a lot of space.
I built a 4-track staging yard which is on the same level as the rest of my layout, so I avoid the hill-climbing issues. I'm hiding it under a removeable scenic cover.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Especially if you are running steam, locating staging "underneath" causes grades that limit train length. In my experience there is a big difference between 2.5 % grades and 1.5 %. Something to think about and plan for.
Grinnell
Hi, Cam. I'm with Byron on this one...splines are great if you can join them properly without any kinking, but bent 1/2" or 5/8" plywood will do a great job of fashioning nice vertical curves and offering you some super-elevation to your sub-roadbed. Atop both you can add 3/8" homasote or cork, or camper topper tape (light density rubber foam used to seal the gaps between a pickup-mounted camper or bed topper).
In fact, both have the same problem...how to ensure a smooth grade transition between joints in either method of creating sub-roadbed. I use a short straightedge, lay it atop the joint, eyeball it at eye level to ensure the grade is consistent across the new joint, and only then fasten the riser or support holding the new addition in the correct elevation.
If you are really keen on spline roadbed, why not use 1/4" thick MDF sheets ripped into lengths? It's what I did 10 years ago. I got a 4X8 sheet of it and ripped it into long 11/16" strips using a table saw. I think I must have gotten 45 or 46 8' long strips that way, plenty to go around my mains at 6-ply with enough left over to make two switchbacks...one of them totalled 10 feet.
Staging: I went below my layout. It's parking space is on the opposite side of the layout from where it meets my main level. We're talking about an elevation change of 5" with an around-the-wall grade ramp running nearly 18'. It takes a lot of room which I have...fortunately. With only 5" of separation, I need removable panels in the scenery in order to reach deep into the parking tracks to fix something.
If you would like hidden, or mostly hidden, access to staging that is also on a grade, consider the grade's steepness because your engines will have to manage without assistance to get entire consists up to the main level. 2.6% or so might be the maximum they can manage, but maybe more, maybe less. You should do some trials to have confidence in your design. Just a suggestion for peace of mind.
Splines to me appear to be unnecessarily complicated to build and I haven't been convinced of their necessity.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
BigDaddy...splines made from tempered hardboard...
No need to use the tempered version, as the temper refers only to the surface hardness - non-tempered is just a flexible.
Cork or Homasote can be used atop spline roadbed, but I wouldn't use either for the splines themselves.
As for staging yards, even if the majority of the layout is on splined roadbed, I'd suggest a sheet of well-supported plywood for staging yards. It'll be easier to create, and easier to add the tracks and turnouts, too.Personally, I use cut-out 3/4"plywood for all my subroadbed, as it will form its own vertical easements and can be very easily superelevated, too.
Wayne
I ripped my own hardboard splines with my radialarm saw. I made them 1" wide. Spline is a really cheap way to get a lot of roadbed. You don't need anything on top of them and using a rasp you can put a little super elevation in them quite easily. I loved working with splines and used them on this layout, just because I wanted to try something new. I would recommend splines any day of the week, I am also a guy that will use and/or try all methods for no other reason than to learn.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
BigDaddy but I would not use cork, it dries out and eventually deteriorates.
but I would not use cork, it dries out and eventually deteriorates.
I'd forgotten about that thanyou Big Daddy
cuyama SAR 500 Splines factor in to the equation as I'm a steam guy and I have articulateds through to 0-4-0Ts and I need to have bullet track being steam locomotives are more senseitve than diesels. Splines don't necessarily allow one to build more reliable track than plywood. In fact, plywood is much more likely to help you avoid small variations that can be tricky for stiff steamers. Splines help create flowing easements, but that's also easy with plywood and a jigsaw. SAR 500 For the splines I'm thinking of using cork as I'm not aware of homasote being sold here in Australia and if it was it would probably be a bit expensive, apart from that has anyone done splines in cork before and please advise. I don't know of anyone who has built splines from cork and I wouldn’t recommend it. Splines are often built from wood strips (with or without spacer blocks), so Homasote is not a requirement. Google image search "wood spline model railroad" Good luck with your layout. Byron
SAR 500 Splines factor in to the equation as I'm a steam guy and I have articulateds through to 0-4-0Ts and I need to have bullet track being steam locomotives are more senseitve than diesels.
SAR 500 For the splines I'm thinking of using cork as I'm not aware of homasote being sold here in Australia and if it was it would probably be a bit expensive, apart from that has anyone done splines in cork before and please advise.
Thankyou Byron I'll keep this in mind
Mister Beasley
Thankyou for enlightening me on the grades, I'll be going multi-deck so the grades have been factored in and I'll try and be as generous as possible grade wise when I get to building a helix.
I'm modelling country similar to the mid west (here in Australia, South Australia farming country) so it might be a open yard or a dividing screen of trees to hide the staging yard if built on the same deck if I can't put another deck above or below the the two decks.
selector Hi, Cam. I'm with Byron on this one...splines are great if you can join them properly without any kinking, but bent 1/2" or 5/8" plywood will do a great job of fashioning nice vertical curves and offering you some super-elevation to your sub-roadbed. Atop both you can add 3/8" homasote or cork, or camper topper tape (light density rubber foam used to seal the gaps between a pickup-mounted camper or bed topper). In fact, both have the same problem...how to ensure a smooth grade transition between joints in either method of creating sub-roadbed. I use a short straightedge, lay it atop the joint, eyeball it at eye level to ensure the grade is consistent across the new joint, and only then fasten the riser or support holding the new addition in the correct elevation. If you are really keen on spline roadbed, why not use 1/4" thick MDF sheets ripped into lengths? It's what I did 10 years ago. I got a 4X8 sheet of it and ripped it into long 11/16" strips using a table saw. I think I must have gotten 45 or 46 8' long strips that way, plenty to go around my mains at 6-ply with enough left over to make two switchbacks...one of them totalled 10 feet
If you are really keen on spline roadbed, why not use 1/4" thick MDF sheets ripped into lengths? It's what I did 10 years ago. I got a 4X8 sheet of it and ripped it into long 11/16" strips using a table saw. I think I must have gotten 45 or 46 8' long strips that way, plenty to go around my mains at 6-ply with enough left over to make two switchbacks...one of them totalled 10 feet
You've given me a bit to think about their Selector and thankyou
selector Staging: I went below my layout. It's parking space is on the opposite side of the layout from where it meets my main level. We're talking about an elevation change of 5" with an around-the-wall grade ramp running nearly 18'. It takes a lot of room which I have...fortunately. With only 5" of separation, I need removable panels in the scenery in order to reach deep into the parking tracks to fix something. If you would like hidden, or mostly hidden, access to staging that is also on a grade, consider the grade's steepness because your engines will have to manage without assistance to get entire consists up to the main level. 2.6% or so might be the maximum they can manage, but maybe more, maybe less. You should do some trials to have confidence in your design. Just a suggestion for peace of mind.
Want be able to go around the wall underneath as I've got cubboards in the way one side (their very good one too being free and well built) so its a helix for me with as gentle grade as much as possible allowed if I go underneath or above either deck. I'm favouring underneath though.
Thankyou Selector
Track fiddler Splines don't necessarily allow one to build more reliable track than plywood. In fact, plywood is much more likely to help you avoid small variations that can be tricky for stiff steamers. Splines help create flowing easements, but that's also easy with plywood and a jigsaw.
Thats what I've been thinking and pondering when it came to the roadbed side of things.
Track fiddler I agree. With exception of extruded foam Plywood is the long term proven grandfather of all sub road bed for dependability. Because it's layers of wood grain opposing itself at 90 degree angles it remains very stable cancelling out expansion and contraction. I think splines are fun and I've used them occasionally on custom remodeling projects but a friendly word of caution. On a smaller scale like on model railroading let the splines cure longer than you think. I remember another Forum poster not too long ago laid his tracks on the splines too soon and the tracks all buckled. The glue expands the material used and shrinks as it dries. He had pictures of it. I looked for the post but I couldn't find it.
I agree. With exception of extruded foam Plywood is the long term proven grandfather of all sub road bed for dependability. Because it's layers of wood grain opposing itself at 90 degree angles it remains very stable cancelling out expansion and contraction. I think splines are fun and I've used them occasionally on custom remodeling projects but a friendly word of caution. On a smaller scale like on model railroading let the splines cure longer than you think. I remember another Forum poster not too long ago laid his tracks on the splines too soon and the tracks all buckled. The glue expands the material used and shrinks as it dries. He had pictures of it. I looked for the post but I couldn't find it.
Yes tried and tested and it works that why I'm looking at them with great intrest, I know their is lot of work but it does pay divet ends though.
I hadn't heard of that happening Track Fiddler but I did ponder whether it could be possible of happening.
Thankyou Wayne I'll keep that in mind
Thankyou Brent
SAR 500 Track fiddler Correction. cuyama's post Splines don't necessarily allow one to build more reliable track than plywood. In fact, plywood is much more likely to help you avoid small variations that can be tricky for stiff steamers. Splines help create flowing easements, but that's also easy with plywood and a jigsaw. Just to set the record straight the above quote is from cuyama. I don't know how my name ended up on it. Sometimes when I post with my phone it has a mind of its own
Track fiddler Correction. cuyama's post Splines don't necessarily allow one to build more reliable track than plywood. In fact, plywood is much more likely to help you avoid small variations that can be tricky for stiff steamers. Splines help create flowing easements, but that's also easy with plywood and a jigsaw.
Correction. cuyama's post
Just to set the record straight the above quote is from cuyama. I don't know how my name ended up on it. Sometimes when I post with my phone it has a mind of its own