BMMECNYC DSchmitt You really need to acurately lay out your plan using a layout design program. Both Xtrakcad and Scarm are free easily downloadable, contain extensive track libraries and although both have a learning curve, they are actually easy to get started with. Both will also let you check grades and "run" trains to see how the arangement works. I personally prefer Xtrakcad. It's easier for me to control track placement. However, Scarm does have at least one nice feature Xtrakcad does not have. You can place a copy of your sketch in the workspace adjust it to size to use as a guide when accurately placing the track components. In addition they are fun! Layout desing programs do not teach basic model railroad concepts. They will allow you to create unworkable track plans, because the tracks will physically connect. Read the books. They will give you an idea of what radius curve will actually fit in the allowable space.
DSchmitt You really need to acurately lay out your plan using a layout design program. Both Xtrakcad and Scarm are free easily downloadable, contain extensive track libraries and although both have a learning curve, they are actually easy to get started with. Both will also let you check grades and "run" trains to see how the arangement works. I personally prefer Xtrakcad. It's easier for me to control track placement. However, Scarm does have at least one nice feature Xtrakcad does not have. You can place a copy of your sketch in the workspace adjust it to size to use as a guide when accurately placing the track components. In addition they are fun!
Layout desing programs do not teach basic model railroad concepts. They will allow you to create unworkable track plans, because the tracks will physically connect. Read the books.
They will give you an idea of what radius curve will actually fit in the allowable space.
True, but they give a pretty good idea of what will fit (inclusing yard and industry layouts, structures and scenery). They can prevent many costly mistakes before commiting to actual building.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
DSchmitt One actually can learn more by using the computer, than by using paper and pencil alone.
Except the computer doesnt teach you basic design concepts. You can draw a perfectly rendered unusable plan in 1 afternoon.
This also assumes that the turnouts are properly drawn in the computer program, and that the information used to make the components was accurate (this is not always the case).
richhotrain DSchmitt You really need to acurately lay out your plan using a layout design program. Both Xtrakcad and Scarm are free easily downloadable, contain extensive track libraries and although both have a learning curve, they are actually easy to get started with. There is no learning curve with quadrille paper. Each square is 1/4", so four squares equal 1". Each 1" can represent 1'. So, you sit down with a pencil, ruler and compass, and go to work drawing. It is that simple. Nearly 80 replies, over 2,100 views, this thread has turned circuitous. Rich
DSchmitt You really need to acurately lay out your plan using a layout design program. Both Xtrakcad and Scarm are free easily downloadable, contain extensive track libraries and although both have a learning curve, they are actually easy to get started with.
You really need to acurately lay out your plan using a layout design program. Both Xtrakcad and Scarm are free easily downloadable, contain extensive track libraries and although both have a learning curve, they are actually easy to get started with.
There is no learning curve with quadrille paper. Each square is 1/4", so four squares equal 1". Each 1" can represent 1'. So, you sit down with a pencil, ruler and compass, and go to work drawing. It is that simple.
Nearly 80 replies, over 2,100 views, this thread has turned circuitous.
Rich
Simple but not accurate except in an overall way. I designed numerous unbuildable layouts in more than 40 years before computer layout programs were available. Inacturately drawn switches and crowding can really mess up a plan. Commercial templates helped, but did not completely alieveiate the accuracy problem.
The computer allows 1. Accurately drawn plans. 2. With practice can be done quickly. 3. Are easy to modify to correct mistakes and try different ideas. 4. Allow runing trains to try out arrangements. 5. Is fun.
Even today, I often start with a hand drawn sketch (on grid paper) of an idea. But I quickly go to the computer to try it out. One actually can learn more by using the computer, than by using paper and pencil alone.
In my drawing there are three tracks the main, loaded and empty that's why there's the loop.
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
Randy could you make a quick sketch of what you said?
I did visit the special interest website and in some YouTube videos the cars are pushed by a switcher with a spacer car.
In the Allentown music video he plays a guitar not a piano.
cascadenorthernrr Here's the inspiration of the layout.
Here's the inspiration of the layout.
I was looking for that, I was using the term steel instead of Iron.
Have you checked out the Steel Mill Special Interest group rescources I linked?
Don't use Billy Joel near the steel mill, the steel mill was in Bethlehem, not Allentown. Plus why would there be a piano in a steel mill? But wait - there is now, since the former steel mill is now an entertainment complex with various spaces for shows and a casino.
FOr a loader with a kickback, you can have what are otherwise impossible grades, but you need some way to lift the cars up, the prototype didn;t push them with a locomotive, there is a cable lift which pulled a small block knoown as a barney up behind the cars and hauled themn to the unloader, then the steep grade doown through the spring switch intot he kickback is how the empties left. Just like a hump yard, it's hard to get model cars to behave consistently enough for this to work well. There's no reason for a loop in that area. You would have a receiving yard for loads, then a track up a slope to the unloader, then on the other side the slop and kickback, and the exit side would slope down to a yard to collect empties. None of that has to loop back on anything else, and both yards can be nearly on the same level to easily connect with the rest of the layout. ANy loop for continuous running could run around the far end of the complex, under the kickback track and use the full width of the table (still limiting you to 22" radius with a 4' wide table).
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
What other unworkables are there?
Well the mill area is stage 1 it will be built in 4x8 sections then after I have some experience I will move on to stage 2 to solve the grade I move the yard back by shortening it. Also please note track 5 will have the impossible grade not 4 the mainline.
This is an impossible grade.
Sorry to be blunt, but it's just the most glaring of many unworkable things in your sketch.
Folks are trying to help you by encouraging you to take a step back and understand layout design principles better, draw to scale, etc., etc.
Since this is a “dream” for a space that doesn't exist, it probably does no harm if you are enjoying yourself and others are willing to entertain the notion. But if you ever get serious about designing for a layout that is actually to be built, you would do well to note what others are telling you.
And of course it would make the most sense to build at least one layout yourself before contemplating anything of this scope.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Now for some fun stuff. The third boxcar of a train must be a Bangor Astook and have a Dean Martin hobo figure inside like the song (King of the Road) The river will be Moon River of course. At the steel mill there will be a Billy Joel figure playing guitar somewhere. I'll think of some more.
Prototype.
Like this.
Point 1 marks the begining of flat level track. 2 marks the point where the line begins upward towards the yard at 2% grade. 3 is end of grade for the yard. 4 begin downgrade. 6 is the coal approach. 10 is upgrade? 8 track closest to the aisle is level the other downgrade. 7 downgrade continues. 9 tail track level. After the switch by 6 track begins to climb uphill. Track enters tunnel under mainline and exits with just enough clearance and enters the yard.
A 22 in radius hhelix isn't a really good idea either.
Here's a suggestion, why do you need a loop there anyway? Just come off the yard track and go straight to the down track.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Ok here it is.
tstage My word...Where is Captain Ahab when you need 'em...???
My word...Where is Captain Ahab when you need 'em...???
cascadenorthernrr Now would be a good time to mention the reason the track has to do that turn is because that track is below the yard due to the coal dock.
Now would be a good time to mention the reason the track has to do that turn is because that track is below the yard due to the coal dock.
I dont think anyone knows what part of your track plan you are describing, because there are on labels, or key to the numbers you placed on the plan. Also you might try to post your new plan?
Ok, a quick look at my plan and a quick realignment shows the helix will NOT work so I figured it out the track runs under the mainline, inter the mine in 22" radius comes out of the tunnel and into the yard! EUREKA!!!
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I've got it now I use a 22" radius tuck it under the yard the tighten the radius as it comes up like a helix?
That's a 4ft wide table that it's on and it's 1/2"=1'
What then do you suggest I do with curve 5?
ROBERT PETRICK While we're talking about circles, curve Number 5 on this latest plan appears to have a radius of about 9 inches. No CAD, no quadrille, just an eyeball.
While we're talking about circles, curve Number 5 on this latest plan appears to have a radius of about 9 inches. No CAD, no quadrille, just an eyeball.
Alton Junction
LINK to SNSR Blog
BMMECNYC richhotrain this thread has turned circuitous. We are now talking about cirlces, so it makes sense that we would be talking in one.
richhotrain this thread has turned circuitous.
We are now talking about cirlces, so it makes sense that we would be talking in one.
Why does Billy Preston's song "Will it go around in circles" come to mind?
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"