Hi guys,Well it's finally happening. Wife and I are looking at property and I've got the ok for a shop with the upstairs being 100% railroad. So I'm looking somewhere in the neighborhood of 25'x50' of workable space. We(dad and I) have a layout in my garage that's about 16'x20' that takes up every usable ounce of room in the garage. And since I use a wheelchair to get around, it's a tight squeeze.So I'm looking at a shelf layout. I will use my existing NCE Pro Cab set up and get a booster as I'm sure I'll need one. I'm looking for input on a couple of things. Mainly the yard. I'm going for a huge yard. Probably in the 30' range ish. No plans built yet. But my concern is this. Sitting down I have about a 30" reach. Not that I really want to be doing detailed work 30" away.....so my shelf will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 18"-24" depending on what's going on. I'm not sure how to do the yard though since it will be much wider than that. I'm wanting 8 tracks wide in addition to 2 mains going through the yard. I had thought about possibly making the layout in a kidney bean shape making the yard accessible from both sides......but I'm not sure. I was hoping to keep the center for tables and work space.
What do you guys have for input? We've learned soooooo much on the garage layout I'm looking forward to not making the same mistakes twice on this layout. Any input will be appreciated from all you guys!
I start designing the house and shop in the next month and then will bust out my Anyrail program again to start designing! Mike
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10210099204430950&set=a.10204608198199226.1073741830.1662755162&type=3&theater
Here is a link to my layout design.
There are two main lines along the wall. three arrival departure tracks, 6 yard tracks, an engine facility, and yard lead. 24"deep. you can add more yard tracks if you have the space.
Steve
5150WS6I'm wanting 8 tracks wide in addition to 2 mains going through the yard.
Assuming HO, if this will be an area where the yard tracks are straight, this might fit better than you think. 2" track-to-track centerline spacing for 10 tracks total would be about 22" (counting the width of the tracks). Allow an inch-and-a-half from the track centerline to the back wall and 2-3" to the aisle side. And if you placed the mainlines to the rear, you wouldn’t need to reach back there often.
5150WS6I'm going for a huge yard. Probably in the 30' range ish.
That is indeed a long yard, again assuming HO. What role(s) will this yard have on your layout? Just for storage of built-up trains, or for actively making up/breaking down trains?
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Yes, sorry guys, HO scale. Knew I would leave one of the important details out.
I like the idea of the mains along the rear. Definitely a good call there. As far as the role of the yard? A little bit of everything. Storage for me, but dad likes making, breaking up and building trains. So it will honestly be a multi roll yard. I'd also like to incorporate sanding, maintenance and some details like that as well.
I knew the 2" center to center rule. So that should work out nicely. I just don't know if I should go shorter and wider or long and narrow. Don't know if I can do both but. Just trying to get ideas and do this one right since it will be my "forever" railroad more than likely. :)
Can you tell us a bit more about your proposed prototyp railroad, type of traffic, era, etc.? Yards are designed to serve specific purposes, and the more we know about your needs & wants, the better.
For example, Tony Koester's NKP Frankfort Yard could serve the purpose nicely. It is long and rather narrow, with engine service facilities and other features. It has been written up in MR and MRP. For the most part, trains came into the yard from any of three directions, changed engines, had cars sorted for various destinations, and left with a fresh engine. There wasn't a lot of industrial switching in Frankfort itself, so the yard wasn't set up for much of that.
A yard serving a steel mill district might be set up entirely differently so that there is very little through traffic, but a lot of local switching.
A yard in a big city might have provision for lots of transfer runs to other roads, as well as switch runs to serve the various industries in town.
You ought to have a cleanout track for cleaning empty cars.
Do you need to ice reefers or water & exercise livestock?
Do you want/need a RIP (Repair in place) track?
The locomotive service facilities need to be appropriate for the era and type of locomotives.
Your switching leads need to be of ample length, and not fouled by trains entering or leaving the yard.
I've said it many times, but I'll say again that every yard ought to have a Thoroughfare track that allows clear access for movement of equipment from one end to the other, especially if it's a large, double-ended yard.
I would also add that switches should be placed as near to the front edge of the layout as possible, especially if any of the principal operators will be operating from a wheelchair, as in your case.
Since wheelchair access is important, it might be worthwhile to think about putting the yard on a peninsula with easy access from both sides. I can envision a long peninsula with a turning loop at the end. Inside the loop is a roundhouse and engine terminal. The "shank" of the peninsula has an arrival yard and a departure yard.
The more we know about your specific needs, the more help we can provide.
Tom
Thanks Tom,
I like your thoughts and those are exactly what has been rolling through my head. A peninsula vs against the wall type set up. I'll do my best to explain kind of what I'm doing.
It's the last of the SP here in the Pacific NW. In my head it's the line between Southern Oregon and San Diego since I've done time in both places. My dad is also a factor and probably more so for the yard. My thing is the passenger. Daylight(I know I know old school but I have to have it), Coaster from SD and Amtrak from around here. My dad is the yard monger. He doesn't care what we do as long as he can use his GP-38 and MP15 in the yard to build up trains he's a happy camper.
As far as industries it will be a mix. I'm hoping with a layout this big we can have some good variety. We still have a lot of wood mills around here, concrete plants and a variety of small manufacturing plant type places. We really haven't gotten into the nitty gritty of what we will have because we are still so happy to even have the chance for so much room our minds are sort of boggled.Our local yard is small. But full of standard box RailBox type cars and a TON of centerbeam flat cars. I would say that makes up 95% of our local yard. Of course throw in a little palm tree San Diego and that completely opens the door. I know realisically I can't model 900 miles of track and distance. So it will be a mix of big redwood trees with a few palm trees at the other end. Mountains on one end and transistion to city. Not HUGE city, but good sized. Hopefully we can pull it off.
We did the Caboose Industries throws for our current layout but I want to automate so will probably go with Tortise throughout the whole layout this time. So switch position will have less a factor in things. I want to stop repairing things from sleeves and such being drug over the layout to throw a switch. Just a toggle on the end of the layout will work better.
Hopefully that clarifies a bit as to what we are after and will aid in the feedback and recommendations!
Mike
If you can use the entire 25 x 50 foot space, I'm inclined to suggest a footprint that uses the entire wall space, plus one or more peninsulas on the long axis of the room. The yard peninsula should be as long as possible. I like the idea of having a long yard peninsula running from one corner, almost to the opposite corner before it turns back. This could allow secondary shorter peninsulas in the remaining two corners.
If you follow my earlier suggestion and put a turning loop at the end of the yard peninsula (or any peninsula), make sure the turnback curves are as generous as possible. Your pasenger cars and long, modern freight cars will like that.
In that space, you should be able to accomplish what you want to do and still have wide aisles. Because of the need for the wheelchair, under no circumstances should you settle for narrow aisles. Actually, wide aisles are almost always a plus, but they will be all the more important in your case.
Your era is post steam, so a roundhouse won't be necessary. A diesel service facility is usually linear, so it could fit in wherever it's convenient. The space within the turnback loop can be a major industry, town, mountain, or whatever you like.
I am partial to basing model railroad track arrangements on actual prototype track arrangements, but you are obviously free to make your own choice in that regard. If it were my railroad (and of course it's not), I think I would narrow myself down to one Division of the railroad and focus on that. A Division is plenty, and it's far more than most folks have room for. You don't need to go all the way from Portland to San Diego.
cuyama Assuming HO, if this will be an area where the yard tracks are straight, this might fit better than you think. 2" track-to-track centerline spacing for 10 tracks total would be about 22" (counting the width of the tracks). Allow an inch-and-a-half from the track centerline to the back wall and 2-3" to the aisle side.
Assuming HO, if this will be an area where the yard tracks are straight, this might fit better than you think. 2" track-to-track centerline spacing for 10 tracks total would be about 22" (counting the width of the tracks). Allow an inch-and-a-half from the track centerline to the back wall and 2-3" to the aisle side.
In general I try not to pick nits, but here's a small little tiny bit of good news for the OP: 10 tracks means 9 spaces, and 9 spaces at 2" is 18", plus a little bit for half the widths of the first track and the last track, and that brings us up to about 20" of depth. Plus the distances for the back wall and aisle clearances.
Just trying to be helpful.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
Tom--
Yes I like the idea more and more of a peninsula an have even thought of making both the peninsula for the yard and have a split that also goes along the back wall. My main concern is not doing what I've done in the past mistakes wise.So for that being said, I will have nothing but #8 turnouts and no less than a 36" radius for the main lines. I think you can get away with a little less on some of it but for the most part I want big huge corners so the long loco's and passenger cars as you mentioned won't hang over.
This all depends on the final size of the room upstairs also. There is a chance I could get more, a chance I could get a little less. I'm still pretty early in the process but even for my last layout I started designing a year in advance. This one is not nearly as nerve racking since I have a great understanding of the DCC world now. :)
And good call Robert on the extra room. That's definitely some good news.
My main problem is going to be holding back. I want to use every square inch of room I have in there but also don't want to have such a clustered bunched up railroad. I've already done that on my smaller current garage version. It will be nice to actually have some room to do some things and be able to ease into them vs cramming things on top of each other.
I plan on this as a plan of action. Benchwork, cork, track/switches, switch motors, DCC wiring, block cutting, block detector wiring and finally signals and the rest of it! :)
I did OSB board on the bottom, then sound board and then cork and track on this layout. Honestly I am going to skip the sound board this go around. I've been experimenting and just don't feel it's worth the extra cost nor does it dull enough sound to be worth it to me. I think the cork has enough insulating properties that the soundboard is minimal at best.
Thoughts on this?Mike
http://www.housatonicrr.com/yard_des.html
This is a good quick read that should help you also.
ROBERT PETRICKIn general I try not to pick nits, but here's a small little tiny bit of good news for the OP: 10 tracks means 9 spaces
True, my mistake.