Mornin' All,
I gave my train-crazy 10yo grandson his first train set (HO) this past Christmas and I’m now following that up with his first off-the-carpet 4x6ft layout for his birthday next month. This layout is the next step beyond the simple oval (it’s an over-under twice-around with one stub siding and one passing siding) and my desire is to introduce him to a few new facets of model railroading such as turnouts, a few (pre-built) plastic structures, a short tunnel, a bridge, and cookie-cutter sub-roadbed topped with cork roadbed, and plaster-over-screen terrain.
My question this morning is regarding remote turnout control. A Peco turnout (with its over-center spring) feeds the stub siding and will introduce him to manual turnout control. On the other hand, the two Atlas passing siding turnouts will be remote-controlled; partly to introduce him to remote turnout control and partly to ensure that the turnouts on both ends of the siding are always coordinated.
So here’s my dilemma: I suspect that the stock Atlas snap-action turnout “motors” will have a limited lifespan because it will be difficult to convince a 10yo to simply push the button and quickly release it since staying on the button too long will burn out the motors. I briefly considered “stall” motors since they could be operated by a simple toggle switch and left powered. Unfortunately, the underside of the layout will be sheeted (at 10, he doesn’t need access to the layout wiring) which will make maintenance/replacement of an under-layout stall motor difficult. Therefore, I’m back to the easy-access, above-table Atlas snap-action solenoids.
Hence, my question: Is there a circuit that will deliver a set-duration pulse to a “solenoid-type” turnout motor, regardless of how long it’s held down?
Thanks for your advice,
Harvey
(Soon to be “The Coolest Grandpa Ever”)
What you need is a capacitive discharge unit. These use an instantaneous charge from a large capacitor to provide a pulse to throw your switch machine. The good thing about this setup is that no matter how long the button is pressed it will only deliver one short pulse until the button is released and the capacitor can recharge. A good thing for little engineers. An example of one of these is the "Snapper" by Circuitron. The are also DIY versions that can be found on the web. Have fun.
Joe
I can't refer you to one off the top of my head, but there are capacitance discharge power supplies for coil-type switch motors that only provide a short spike of power to the switch motor no matter how long you hold the switch down.
On the other hand, I think you're expecting too little from your 10 year old grandson. Most kids catch on quicker than adults and if you take the time to explain the situation to your grandson, he should understand. One of the best operators in an operating group I belong to is only 13 years old! Listening to him repeat clearance orders to the dispatcher over his radio is downright intimidating! I've had kids as young as 5 easily running my DCC powered layout with all of about 2 minutes of instruction. Best of all, if they don't know how to do something, their not too embarrassed to ask!
If you're only controlling the two turnouts of the passing siding, a single Atlas remote turnout switch or two separate pushbutton switches could be used to select either route. Label each route "A" and "B" (or some other descriptor) and label the switch(es) accordingly.
Hornblower
I'm pretty sure by age 10 I had my hand slip while plugging something in and learned to respect/avoid all things electric, so sheeting the underside wouldn't have been neccessary for me.
You could wire in a simple buzzer to the circuit and teach him to have the shortest buzz possible.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
If he'a interested, you problbly won't have any problems.
How accessable will the switch machines be? If you can reach them, Atlas machines are not hard to change, should the motor burn out. Just don't scenic the area enough to make removing the machine difficult. If he does fry one, have him replace it. This will both show him what happens when he's heavy handed and how to repair, all at one time.
None of my grand kids interested in trains. Maybe the two greats will show more promise when they are a little older. I'll have more time to introduce them too.
Good luck,
Richard
What Joe said
I was killing N scale turnouts all the time when I was 10 - until I built a capacitor discharge unit. It's not so much as holding the button too long as it is the buttons are kind of cheap and tend to stick after a while.
The CDU is cheap insurance. Pretty hard to burn on the switch motor even if you tape the button down, yet when they work the switch ALWAYS throws and even on a lesser quality power pack you don;t get that annoying train slowdown. Eventually I switched to Tortoise motors and now servos, both of which by nature of the control system can't burn out through mishandling of the controls.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Yes, using a CD circuit will protect the turnouts and also throw them better. You can buy a commercially made one, or assemble one from Radio Shack parts. I've found that the Atlas pushbuttons sometimes stick in the ON position, and a CD circuit will protect against that problem, too.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
"or assemble one from Radio Shack parts..."
By any chance do you have a schematic available?
HarveyBy any chance do you have a schematic available?
No, but you can google one. It's pretty simple - two resistors and two capacitors. That requires an external DC source. For mine, I used an old power pack. You can add a bridge rectifier if you're using AC power.
HarveySo here’s my dilemma: I suspect that the stock Atlas snap-action turnout “motors” will have a limited lifespan because it will be difficult to convince a 10yo to simply push the button and quickly release it since staying on the button too long will burn out the motors.
I wasn't much older than that when I got my first Atlas switch machines. I salvaged them off my old brass track and some of those machines are still running on my current layout. I turn 70 next month. I give these things pretty good marks for durability.
The OLD HO ones - I was running traisn when I was 5 or so, and I STILL have some of those old turnouts somewhere - and I bet they still work, too. Never burned a one out ever. Then we added an N scale section to the layout and it was burnt coil city, leading to the N scale only making an appearance for 2 years, and then it got put away in excahnge for making the HO bigger (all of this was temporary, Thanksgiving to New Year, we had no room for a permanent layout). When I was a little older the N scale came out and a small 2x4 was build that I could keep up all the time. Still burned out those darn switch motors. Then I built a 3x6. You guessed it, still burned out switch motors. Then I built the fast recharge CD unit in Peter Thorne's Practical Electronic Projects for Model Railroaders (out of print but you cna probably still find it somewhere - many of the circuits, the parts listed are now long obsolete but the CD unit parts are all still available). The newer Atlas HO switch machines use the same small fine wire coils they use in the N scale ones, much more delicate than the ancient ones from the 60's and 70's.
Rob Paisley has lots of options on his page:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/CDPSU.html
The Thorne circuit I built is effectively the top one under the section "Current Blocking Switch Machine Power Supply". The transistor allows the cap to recharge faster after each operation, but it also prevents the cap from charging up if a button is stuck or held down. I don;t happen to know the resistence of say an Atlas twin coil switch motor, but the current limit if the button is held down using the values shown in Rob's circuit will be in the milliamps range.
Harvey"or assemble one from Radio Shack parts..." By any chance do you have a schematic available?
Look at the link I gave you. It shows the very simplest to a little more complex.
When I was ten I was learning to wire my own electric trains and slot cars. It’s part of the hobby. Let him learn it. It's low voltage DC. He won't get hurt. As for switches, they are electromagnetic and don’t really burnout. I have had some since the 1970s. Holding down a button and listening to it buzz while nothing happens gets boring quickly especially when there are trains to play with.
P.S. the switch motor is easy to replace without having to remove the turnout. Just unscrew the wires and snap the new one in place.
"When I was ten..."
Please don't make the mistake of assuming that all ten year olds are at the same level of development. Some will never be.
Including my grandson.
Even us big "kids" can burn out a coil so adding a CD unit isn't a bad idea besides it makes the turnouts snap with more authority a satifying snap.
Joe Staten Island West