Hey,
I have a very small loop of oval track that has six no.4 turnouts in it (mostly back to back). The locomotives are so loud and "clunky" when rolling over the frog area. I have Atlas custom line turnouts.
I know there isnt much I can do about it...does anyone else have the same problem? I will buy a jig and build my own next time.
what code track and what locos , steam or diesel, moderen or older ?
Its the turnouts you are using to some extent.
Code 83
Diesel (mostly modern, one older Kato for Atlas RS1. This one is heavy).
I also have a small critter (short wheel base).
There's obviously a gap in the rail that wheels must cross. And there's a jolt to the wheels if the wheel drops.
Tony Koester's directions for handlaying turnouts say to fill the frog with solder and use a broken hacksaw blade to cut the rail gap. But you don't need to cut the gap very deep. I think the idea is to keep is shallow so that the wheel flange can ride on the gap surface so that the wheel doesn't drop so much when crossing the gap
In Tony's video, he uses commercial frog (see below). You might be able to fill the gap with some styrene.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
I have several Atlas #4 and #6 customline turnouts and they all cause a noticeable thump when wheels cross the frog-most noticeably my Atlas S2s. I have tried several of th suggested methods for filling in the frog to no avail. I guess that I'll just have to get used to it until I can replace the turnouts with an other brand.
Joe
Check the wheel gauge. People are quick to blame Atlas turnouts for being 'cheap' but in the past, every time I've had a loco that thumped through the turnouts, a checkl with the NMRA gauge showed the wheels slightly out of spec. The only thing not easily fixable were older (late 60's/early 70's) Rivarossi locos which have flanges too deep to work well on code 83 track, the flanges hit the tie plate and spike detail.
Pick up an NMRA gauge and check the wheels.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I guess that I live in a different time zone or something. All my wheels both on locos and rolling stock are checked with an NMRA guage before going on the layout. This afternoon I tried a modification of Tony Koester's method. I filled the grooves in the frog of an Atlas code 100 turnout with epoxy and after it hardened I used a piece of a hacksaw blade to cut the grooves. It seems to have worked. Now to see how long the fix persists.
Here is what I do:
1 - Check the wheel gauge with a NMRA gauge. Adjust as required.
2 - Check the flange way with your NMRA gauge. Usually the guard rails are not tight enough to pull the wheel sets over enough to prevent them from 'clicking' on the point of the frog. I use .010" strip styrene glued in with ACC or 90 sec epoxy.
3 - Fill the gap in the frog with strip styrene so that the wheel flanges have something to ride on.
That said, I have very few problems with Atlas code 83 turnouts. The older code 100 ones are the usual candidates for the above fixes. I would check your wheel gauge first. Be aware that BLI engines usually have the wheel gauge set to the maximum width allowed in the NMRA spec.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Pahdon me.
Since most prototype frogs have double-digit numbers the wheel treads are carried on overlapping rail a lot better than our model wheels. Also, liberal use is made of spring-loaded wing rails that keep the frog gap closed.
I caught a local switching the lead west of the LA&SL main here in North Las Vegas. This is low speed track, with #7 open-frog turnouts. Every wheel crossed every frog with a rather loud 'hammer on an anvil' thump.
Considering the low-number frogs that are 'standard' for model railroads, frog noise is pretty normal. Since my short-pickup EMU and DMU would object to any break in power current continuity, filling flangeways with epoxy is not an option, and I personally object to flooding them with solder.
OTOH, switch points aren't noisy if they are: 1. Sharp-ended, and 2. Level with or only slightly above the running rail. I file the 'pointy' end to a shape rather like a butter knife. Metal wheels cross them silently, both routes, every turnout. DON'T run fingers up the rails into a facing-point switch (unless you enjoy bloody lacerations.)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with hand-laid specialwork)
Maybe I am wrong saying this here but when I ride a prototype train I always here clacks or thumping when the train goes over a frog.
Joe Staten Island West
joe323 Maybe I am wrong saying this here but when I ride a prototype train I always here clacks or thumping when the train goes over a frog.
I was wondering when someone would inject a little reality into this conversation! I've ridden Amtrak and definitely, you hear and feel clacks and thumping when you are on a car that is going through a turnout.
Short answer is, it's prototypical so actually be happy as long as trains are derailing - everything is good.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 joe323 Maybe I am wrong saying this here but when I ride a prototype train I always here clacks or thumping when the train goes over a frog. I was wondering when someone would inject a little reality into this conversation! I've ridden Amtrak and definitely, you hear and feel clacks and thumping when you are on a car that is going through a turnout. Short answer is, it's prototypical so actually be happy as long as trains are derailing - everything is good.
I actually had the NYC subway in mind because I think the switching on subway more closely resembles a model RR IMHO since space is at a premium.
But Amtrak too although I have not been on Amtrak since 2013.
Metal wheels will click going over rail joints,crossing diamonds and switch frogs.
Want total silence? Use plastic wheels.Problem solved.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
nscsxThe locomotives are so loud and "clunky" when rolling over the frog area.
The OP is saying the noise is excessive.
On my layout I have Atlas Custom Line #6 turnouts, code 100, and mine 'clunked as well' ..
When the wheel flange was not supported by the rail itself in the frog area, it would drop down, and ride on the flange in the bottom of the groove, and jump up when it would get past that section and onto the rail again..
In my case a sliver of 0.012 black styrene in the frog grooves removed the 'clunk'
BRAKIEWant total silence? Use plastic wheels.Problem solved.
Delrin wheels still make a clickty-clack, just not as pronounced as metal.
Total silence would be rubber.
Take Care!
Frank
I don't think that what the OP is referring to is a click/clack but the objectionable thump with the wheel drop in the overly wide grooved frog.
Where do you get 'black' .012 styrene? All I have found is .030 sheet stock...
Some of my Atlas turnouts came with the pot-metal frogs raised up from the rails quite a bit, so the locos would make a noise when hitting the bump before dropping into the frog. The entire sequence exacerbated the clunk.
I used a Dremel (ahem, actually, carefully positioning the turnout frog against a bench grinder) to quickly lower the height of the metal frog to where it was level with the surronding rails. That took care of most of the clunk.
- Douglas
I am refereing to the locomotive being noisey. The locomotive must have metal wheels to conduct electricity.
Too the person who said, "I think the OP is talking about 'excessive' noise." Thanks for clearing that up...
I carefully moved a rail car over the one of the frogs [on a no.6 turnout] and found some resistance where the V in the frog is at. The wheels on the rail car had to raise up a little where the sharp inner V is inside the frog. I initally thought that this point alone was just too high but when I filled the area it took none of the material off. The problem lies in how wide the void is in the frog area that forms the outer V. The expanse is just a little too wide in this area causing the wheel to slip off and drop down; then it "bumps" back up again when it crosses over the sharp inner V.
jrbernier Where do you get 'black' .012 styrene? All I have found is .030 sheet stock... Jim
They sell .01 on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Black-Styrene-Sheets-01x6x12-4/dp/B000BRSGDU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1486677389&sr=8-1&keywords=black+styrene+.01
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
I have this same problem. I use Atlas code 100 track for my entire layout and no 6 switches. Yes my wheels will bump up and sometimes the leading triucks on my steam engines will bump up and derail the locomotive, or some freight cars will pass over fine then one will bump up and derail. I have had a train go over a set of no6 switches 50 times with no problem, then suddenly derail the next time around. It's frustrating. Any advice is appreciated
nscsx I carefully moved a rail car over the one of the frogs [on a no.6 turnout] and found some resistance where the V in the frog is at. The wheels on the rail car had to raise up a little where the sharp inner V is inside the frog. I initally thought that this point alone was just too high but when I filled the area it took none of the material off. The problem lies in how wide the void is in the frog area that forms the outer V. The expanse is just a little too wide in this area causing the wheel to slip of and drop down; then it "bumps" back up again when it crosses over the sharp inner V.
I carefully moved a rail car over the one of the frogs [on a no.6 turnout] and found some resistance where the V in the frog is at. The wheels on the rail car had to raise up a little where the sharp inner V is inside the frog. I initally thought that this point alone was just too high but when I filled the area it took none of the material off. The problem lies in how wide the void is in the frog area that forms the outer V. The expanse is just a little too wide in this area causing the wheel to slip of and drop down; then it "bumps" back up again when it crosses over the sharp inner V.
First thing I would do as has already been mentioned...Is to check the wheels on the engine with a NMRA gauge and also check the guardrail for the correct spacing. If the wheels are out of gauge and the guard rail clearance is tight, it will cause the wheel flange to hit the pointed frog with a clunk..if not derailing. I have some Athearn BB SD40-2's that would not make it through some Atlas turnouts (they were binding) from a different run. The guard rail clearance was too tight for the wheel flanges on those engines and they would clunk going through the turnouts. From Your above description, it sounds like that is happening to You. My fix was just to file the inside of the guard rails with a small flat mill file and that solved the problem on those turnouts. I have not experienced any Atlas turnouts with the frog too high or low.....just tight guard rails. Turnouts are 80's/90's era, code 83.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=nmra+ho+scale+track+gauge&safe=active&tbm=shop
Good Luck!
Atlas customline #4:
Thanks for the advice Frank. I will look into it.
Perhaps I was overlooking something.
zstripe Atlas customline #4:
I have never seen a frog of an Atlas turnout look that smooth and precise right out of the box. That one looks like it has had some attention. Mostly they are painted black and are bumpy or raised proud of the rails right where they are colored brown.
That turnout looks great. Just like mine do after they spend a few seconds at the bench grinder. After it comes back from the grinder, that space in the frog is still long, but its not as deep as it was. Equipment rolls more smoothly.
Doughless,
No they really don't look like that out of the pkg. They do have the blackened frogs. I lay the turnout on the layout first, then I do the tweaking. I use #400 grit emery paper on a hard rubber sanding block and lightly sand the top of the frog until it shines. Then with a silver dollar, I slide it on the rails in one direction a few times, followed by polishing with Maas silver polish and really don't have to touch it again after that. About once a year, I push a CMX tank cleaning car filled with lacquer thinner, all over the layout, with two Athearn BB SD40-2's. The track stays clean and the six-wheel SD's will find a problem if there is one. LOL I also wire them at the layout, at the outside rails, which become almost invisible once painted. Also do that when wired, with an air-brush. All under table Atlas switch machines and N-scale Caboose ind. ground throws (206s) on all the #4 turnouts. All other turnouts are remote. Turnouts in street are done the same way as the other pic'.....the ground throw midway to the right next to the turnout controls the points in the street, with a buried 3/32'' brass tube and a 1/16'' brass rod for linkage. Whole area has been weathered since pic' was taken. That's one of the biggest +'s when using Homasote for roadbed. Other pic' (little blurred) are #6 crossover on the double track mainline, also done the same way with frog. They were installed in the mid 80's and have not had any problem's what so ever with them.