Dave,
While reading an article in the March, 2016 MR about sheet steel flat car loads, there is also quite an extensive article on benchwork, and the guy used plywood.
Just noticed it, and thought of your thread.
Mike.
EDIT: Wow, top of page. I hope that doesn't have the same consequences as the diner!
My You Tube
"You create narrow cavities that later will be difficult to work in with your hands and fitting undertrack equipment."
Ah ha! Eventually I would have discovered that as I was tearing the offending joists out!
Thanks Alan.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Thanks Mike. I'll look it up.
Edit:
I looked up the article. The author, Pelle Soeborg, uses minimal material, 1/2" ply and 1x2s. I'm just not comfortable doing things to a minimum. I want to be able to safely put my weight on the layout and I am a heavy guy.
Looking at your design. I would build box frames along the two walls attached to the studs with angle supports. I would simply use 1X4 for this. for the two peninsulas I would use the L girder style framing to accomplist the gentle curves. use 1X4 for this also.
I think ripped plywood is overkill for benchwork. However every design has different needs. Dave Barrow uses it because he likes to rebuild and move sections around and wants a precision box to do that. Hornblower used it for a specific peninsula situation that needed it.
Anyway here is a pic of my benchwork. My layout is a folded dogbone also.
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15170898_10209744706528724_1670331933956695332_n.jpg?oh=7d52326fb6f945d5e463515135f3ee98&oe=59035810
If you need more pics just ask.
Steve
hon30critterAre you suggesting that I shouldn't have some of the joists on sharp angles to the girders as I have shown in the plan?
Correct. As others are pointing out, it will create problems and offers no benefit.
I believe that it was Linn Westcott who said of benchwork: "Build bridges, not tables." Bridges are mostly air. Keeping the joists perpendicular to the L-girders (and the aisles) for the most part allows for a broader span between them -- less material, same utility.
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I can't speak for which is "best", but will simply share my own experience. I chose box frame over L-girder for two reasons:
1) I wanted modules that could potentially be taken apart and reassembled (but now realize that'll never happen; if I move, it'll be easier to just start over)
2) box frame has a thinner profile; I have a multi-deck layout and wanted to maximize clearance between decks (saving just an inch or two on the upper deck especially is worth it)
I used cheap 1x2's from Rona for framing and 2x2's for legs (yes, I spent some quality time picking through the pile for the most straight-ish ones). Over this I have laid 1" styrofoam as the scenery base. It's probably been close to 10 years now since I completed construction and began operating and adding scenery & structures. Results - no problems at all as long as I run a dehumidifier in the room (basement) during high humidity spells in summer (which is also good for the electronics).
Your results may vary.
One caveat - mine is an 'around the walls' bench-style layout, so I'm never required to stand on it. I've leaned on it pretty heavily, though, with no issues.
You are a Canadian. Use Robertson screws. Invented in Canada and the best to work with as they do not "torque out" like Philips screws which were actually designed to do that. #6 Robertson screws are best when going into end grain but I agree with another poster who suggested corner blocks to get away from end grain entirely. The "L" girder style also described by another poster, though not called that in the post is an interesting alternative as it allows for undulating edges and easier terrain options. It usually uses boards and no screws go into end grain. There are alternatives and its all fun.
Steve:
I have been thinking that L girder is a waste of time in the areas you mention since the sub roadbed will all be flat anyhow.
Your benchwork is very similar to what I had envisaged.
Did you have any trouble working between the angled joists? Others have suggested that having the joists too close together will cause problems if you need to work between them.
Please post some more pictures too if you will.
Thanks
Byron:
cuyamaCorrect. As others are pointing out, it will create problems and offers no benefit.
The voice of experience!
Thanks,
That is the best part about L-girder constrution the joists are screwd to the l girder from the bottom. if you need to move one you unscrew it from the bottom and move it over. The joists only need to be every 16 to 20 inches.
here is a link to my FB layout page.
https://www.facebook.com/steve.krass/media_set?set=a.10204608198199226.1073741830.1662755162&type=3
I built my entire two level 30x30' layout with 3" x 3/4" plywood strips. I have a table saw and a plate joiner (biscuit joints). I also have an air powered nail gun (2 1/2" finish nails I think in this case). Open grid. After cutting the biscuit pockets, it goes together quick with nails and glue. No pre-drilling. And strong enough to stand on. No corner brackets needed. Traditional risers screwed to frame to support changes in elevation. Would definitely do it again the same way. No issues with warped boards, knots, or splits.
Mike
wolfman06I built my entire two level 30x30' layout with 3" x 3/4" plywood strips.
Mike:
What grade of plywood did you use?
Thanks for the advice and the link. Very impressive work.
ROBERT CASWELLYou are a Canadian. Use Robertson screws. Invented in Canada and the best to work with as they do not "torque out" like Philips screws
Robert:
Yup, Robertson it is! In fact, its hard to buy anything but Robertson screws for regular use here.
hon30critter ROBERT CASWELL You are a Canadian. Use Robertson screws. Invented in Canada and the best to work with as they do not "torque out" like Philips screws Robert: Yup, Robertson it is! In fact, its hard to buy anything but Robertson screws for regular use here. Dave
ROBERT CASWELL You are a Canadian. Use Robertson screws. Invented in Canada and the best to work with as they do not "torque out" like Philips screws
Good choice anyway...
I had to build some assembly stands at work for an experiment. Basically the same as benchwork, a small box with internal bracing and a top panel, using plywood.
In some places the voids in the plywood were such that fastening it with screws would not work, as half the material was air.
I didn't use screws, as they may cause problems during the experiment, so everything was glued using LePage (Henkel) Pro carpenters glue. It tacks quickly and holds things together while you clamp. With a small box it wasn't a problem to get everything aligned, but after 30 minutes it was unbelievably solid.