Has anyone found a mortorized switch machine with a simpler installation, I'm thinking of trying Iowa Scale Engineering's machine as an alternative, my plywood base combined with the top layer of homasote is 1inch thick, I just installed a Peco #5 Turnout by using a Dremel cutting wheel to fit the switch in existing track, by using the cutting wheel I was able to remove the track section cleanly and drill the throwbar hole from the top before soldering in the new switch, all went well from working from the top, but working underneath the layout it's been a different story!
From below I first drilled a 5/16 hole that was too small, then I went with a 1/2" drill bit up to the Peco throw bar, from this point on it's been all downhill. No matter how many positions I try with the Tortoise I just can't seem to get the throw wire to move the switch points from below?
I may have to order some .039 music wire from Walters to compensate for the 1inch base issue, hopefully this size wire will throw the switch, but I will still be struggling to position the Tortoise properly from below and permently secure it with screws , or possibly silicone this time around.
This in not my first Tortoise installation on my freight yard layout, which now has ninetine switches , most of which are within reach for manual throwbar operation, the machine operated switches are needed in tight spaces, at the rear of the layout. One switch is located in between two buildings , which involved installing a Tortise machine together with a Tomar drawf signal wired to a red/green control panel light, indicating the position of the switch without looking at the drawer signal which will eventually be hidden in-between two adjacent steel mill buildings.
I welcome any comments or suggestions on this topic, especially if someone can recommend an alternative remote operated switch machine that is more "installation friendly" than Tortoise? Darryl
Hi Darryl:
This may be a dumb question but did you remove the spring from the Peco turnout before installing it? If the spring is still there the Tortoise will have a very difficult time throwing the switch.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Darryl,
I usually use a 3/8" bit to rout out the throwbar hole. I'll mark at the throwbar on top, move the turnout out of the way, then drill from the top making it an oval slot by moving the drill back and forth.
I make my throws out of .039 wire minimum, sometimes larger so long as it fits the hole in the bridle. K&S offers this, so I can usually find it locally. I make it so that the wire is extra long, allowing it to be threaded through the bridle hole.
I used to attach the Tortoise with screws, but found it tedious. Now I usually use hot glue, applying it to the top and pushing it up as I position it. The hot glue allows the Tortoise to be popped off later if needed.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
When I first entered the HO scale side of the hobby back in early 2004, I installed a half dozen Atlas Under Table switch machines under my layout (1/2" plywood) to control my turnouts. I was so frustrated that I nearly left the hobby. I simply could not align them properly to move the points fully into postion. So, I sold them on eBay and started installing Tortoises.
To date, I have installed over 80 Tortoises, either through original installation or as a result of relocating Tortoises as part of layout modifications. At first, it wasn't easy for me to install a Tortoise. There was some trial and error in the learning process. But, over time, I have become pretty skilled at successfully installing a Tortoise on the first try.
I begin the installation by replacing the 0.025" wire provided by Circuitron with a 0.039" wire purchased from K&S Wire Products. The extra diameter provides greater stiffness which is critical to moving rhe point rails fully against the stock rails. With the wire screwed firmly in place, I manually center the wire by placing my finger on the screw that holds the wire onto the Tortoise, and I move the screw to a centering position on the Tortoise.
The first step in the installation process is to shape the wire, per the instruction sheet, and screw it in place on the Tortoise. Then, center the wire on the Tortoise.
The next step is to locate the desired position of the Tortoise. To do this accurately, I find it best to firmly secure the turnout and center the point rails by placing a strip of masking tape over the point rails while holding them away from the stock rails with your finger. The strip of masking tape will be sufficient in strength to keep the point rails centered.
The next step is to mark the point on the surface of the layout where the hole is to be drilled. Since my layout surface is plywood, I use a pin vise to drill a tiny impression on the plywood by placing the drill bit through the hole in the turnout throwbar. Then, I remove the turnout and drill a 5/8" hole through the plywood surface. I find that a 5/8" hole is the ideal diameter to allow free and complete movement of the Tortoise wire. Then, I replace and secure the turnout.
The next step is the mounting of the turnout under the layout. Since the turnout is secured and the point rails centered, it is easy to identify the correct position and orientation of the Tortoise. The Tortoise should be aligned with the direction of the turnout above it. I eyeball the position of the turnout by looking at the ties which can be clearly seen through the 5/8" opening.
One issue that I encountered as a Tortoise rookie was that I struggled to get the wire through the hole in the throwbar. To make that task easier, I bend and shape the wire per instructions but I purposely make the wire longer than required so that it initially protrudes about 3/4" above the turnout once the Tortoise is installed. This extra length makes it easy to push the wire through the hole in the turnout throwbar.
With the Tortoise held firmly in place against the underside of the plywood layout surface with my left hand, I hold a sharp pointed pencil in my right hand and mark the positions for the screws which will hold the Tortoise firmly in place. The screw "holes" in the Tortoise are easily indentified. The Tortoise is designed to allow four screws to hold it in place. I have found that only two screws are necessary, one on the front of the Tortoise and the other on the rear of the Tortoise mounted diagonally from the front screw.
The final step is to remove the masking tape to free the throwbar and to use wire cutters to clip the wire flush with the throwbar. Test the Tortoise with power on to be sure that the points rails move firmly against the stock rails in both directions, and you are ready to go.
Alton Junction
Step 1) Throw away the instruction sheet.
Step 2) drill hole where throwbar will be. 3/8 - 1/2" is ok. Easier for an old LION to see things.
Step 3) Solder light weight tails to the eight pin-outs.
Step 4) Slobber a big blob of Silicone Caulk on the face. Keep it away from the actuator.
Step 5) Manually Center the actuator wire.
Step 6) Thread actuator wire the big and little holes.
Step 7) Press Tortoise to the underside of the table, and move it about unitl the switch points are centered and the wire is straight with no bending on it.
To remove tortoise, just tip it sidewise.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
[quote user="hon30critter"]
Dave,
I'm not egar to remove the spring from the Peco switch just yet, i will try the .039 wire size first and then see what happens. Darryl
I've found an easy way for mounting the Toroise.
I apply strips of 1/2" wide Scotch Foam Mounting Tape across the screw slot flaps, then gently move it into position. You can easily reposition it until you press it into place. Once pressed home, its pretty secure, then I make pilot holes at the mounting slots with an awl and secure it with 6 or 4 x 1/2 philips flat head screws.
Jim
dstephensonSound good, using Scotch foam tape sounds even better that using duct tape / hot glue / or Silone caulk. I just hope it sticks long term. Darryl
While I have found that the tape alone would probably be sufficient, especially after giving it some time to set, I actually use the foam tape to hold the Torty in place so I can use two hands to add the small screws. Using a 6" long philips bit in the drill makes for easy work.
Rich's thorough description reminded me of a jig I used often when first installing Tortoises. It consisted of a small piece of masonite with a 1/4" dowel stuck through it at 90 degrees and glued in place. I then marked and drilled the masonite for where the Tortoise mounting holes would line up. The dowel goes into the previously drilled throw rod hole, then you drill the mounting screwholes as needed.
As Rich and other noted, you get the feel of things after awhile. I rarely use the jig now, preferring to freehand things.
Rich says leave the extra wire sticking up past the track about 3/4". That will work, I just prefer longer because of the tip that comes next here. I stick a piece of masking tape on the wire where it protrudes so there's no chance it will fall back down and require you to thread it through the tiny hole in the bridle again. Once the wire is secured and points operation is verified, I use some nippers to cut it close to the bridle, then touch that up so it doesn't stick above rail height with a Dremel and cutoff blade.
Note that sometimes it's just easier to put the wire in from the top as either an original install or a retrofit. If the wire is long enough, then you can drop it through (including the pivot fulcrum) and bend the lower end to attach to the Tortoise drive
dstephensonThe installation process you described is close to what I have been attempting thus far, I will order the 039 wire size today at my local train shop and hopefully complete this remote switch project. Thank you, Darryl
That wire is a common hardware store item. I get mine at the local True Value.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Tortoise are a bit tricky. I had a bear of a time getting the wire through 2" ground foam from under the turnouts. Once I did, I taped the machine like crazy to ensure it stayed. What worked for me was undoing a large paper clip so it's arrow straight. That is much sturdier than the wire included with the Tortoise.