Hi, I have been building some kits for my HO layout but I would like to start doing some scratch building. I was going to start with something simple like a handcar shed or a tool shed. I would like to get some advice, opinions, tips, etc on the advantages/disadvantages of using either styrene or wood (strips or sheets) for scratch building. Since I have no one locally to share my hobby with, I relay heavily on this forum for guidance. And you all have always come thru for me. Thanks.
wdcrvr
You didn't mention what type of kits you have built. If you have built wood structures, you should try scratch building with wood. If your experience has been styrene kits, I would go that route. Use materials you are familiar with. I have scratch built with both wood and styrene. I prefer wood for my buildings that are wooden prototypes. Styrene can be distressed to look like wood.
This post includes making corner post for building wood structures. To me that was the key for easy assembly of the walls. Precut corner posts are available from Northeastern Scale Lumber (521-593). I decided I could make the corner post myself with my Dremel Router.
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/2013/01/scratch-building-1916-sears-catalog-home.html
Have fun building your own structures, it’s a blast!
My Model Railroad
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
Bakersfield, California
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Quality advice above on using that with which you are familiar. I like wood kits and scratchbuilding with wood, which I find easy to work with. If building a structure that was wood, why go through the steps of trying to make plastic look like wood? If the structure was something like a concrete silo, then clearly styrene would be fine.
My tip would be to look carefully and selectively at the scribed wood sheets that you use for siding or similar surfaces. Sometimes there is a sizeable line across those sheets from the grain of the actual wood. Usually, that grain line is not parallel to the edges of the scribed siding, and it usually appears as a lighter-colored line. That line will not take stain or paint the same as the rest of the wood as it is usually denser. Most of the time, I can avoid using that section of siding where it will be highly visible - I can often take the piece that I need from above or below where that grain line is strongest. Another option is to be sure to use a good sealer on sections that have such woodgrain lines, and that works fine for a painted surface.
Scratchbuilding allows us to make the kind of building that we need for a specific area. I wanted an eastern-style coal mine with two loading tracks to allow for a "loads out, empties in" operation, and I wanted the clearance of those loading tracks to also allow for a locomotive to pass under if needed. I found no suitable kits, so I made one:
Bill
wdcrvr:
Congratulations on taking the plunge. I find scratchbuilding to be one of the most rewarding aspects of the hobby.
I have scratchbuilt with both materials and I would say that styrene is easier to work with. Also, I think there is a much wider assortment of patterns available.
I like wood for a distressed wooden building where the grain adds some depth to the model, although in reality you wouldn't be able to see HO scale wood grain. Styrene can be distressed very effectively too. I also like wood because I can cut my own slabs so it is almost free. There are a couple of excellent suppliers of modelling wood. I just got some strips from Mt. Albert Scale Lumber and they are very nicely done. There is also something about individual planks that I think just looks better for earlier era buildings, decks and loading docks etc.
For brick structures using styrene is kind of a no-brainer, although be aware that some brick sheets are much better defined than others. Walthers brick sheets are quite nicely done although they are a bit thick. Plastruct brick is vacuum molded so the detail is not as crisp but it is much easier to cut and it still looks decent. Plastruct brick is best used as a veneer because it is so thin, and you have to go easy on the solvent cement.
Speaking of cutting, styrene sheets are easier and quicker and require almost no finishing. Things like window and door openings are also a breeze in styrene if you get a pair of nibbler shears. I have a trick for getting consistently parallel cuts in styrene sheet. I buy V-groove sheets and simply follow the lines with my x-acto knife to get parallel cuts. I usually have several different sheets on hand with varying groove spacing. That allows me to get pretty close to the width I need. If I don't want the grooves to show I just install the styrene smooth side out.
Styrene is quicker to assemble in that you don't have to wait quite as long for the glue to dry before adding the next piece.
Both wood and styrene require inner bracing on larger structures but your hand car shed probably won't. It can't hurt though.
Have fun!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
My problems with wood is that it can be dimensionally unstable due to humidity changes and aging; and that the grain is inappropriate for most model building surfaces.
Also, the bonding of pieces is "right now" for plastic when you use something like MEK. And you don't have to worry about the glue seeping from a joint and causing painting problems, later.
I work with wood frequently in the real world. And I love it. And I am familiar with its, uh, abilities to have opinions. Plastic has no opinion. Except that you better not get solvent under your fingers while aligning parts. THEN it has a big one.
If you want to work in plastic, I suggest getting this strikingly inexpensive "book":
https://www.walthers.com/book-styrene-fabrication?ref=1
It was written by an expert in the field. I believe it was written before Evergreen came along, so it's likely REALLY about scratchbuilding.
Ed
Where do I get "nibbler shears"?
You might find nibbler shears at your local hardware store or automotive supply store, or you can order them from MicroMark or other on-line suppliers.
http://www.micromark.com/nibbling-cutter,7761.html
They only take out a bit at a time but they actually work pretty fast. One suggestion I would make is to nibble the opening slightly smaller than the window or door moulding and then use a file a bit at a time until you have an exact fit.
Just happened to see this episode of Cody's Office, which has a bit on nibblers.
http://mrr.trains.com/videos/codys-office/2008/02/product-spotlight-video-for-the-week-of-february-21-2008
CG
I used to scratchbuild using wood, but since I discovered styrene, I won't be using wood again. As mention, it's a great material for many full-size items, but I'll not use it again for modelling.
Styrene allows faster and stronger construction, with plenty of choices with regards to sheet material - various thicknesses and sheet sizes, and it comes in at least white and black. Strip material is available in various dimensions, expressed in thousandths of an inch, millimetres, or as dimensional lumber sizes, and also as structural steel shapes (angles, I-bar, H-columns, etc.) and as tubing and in architectural shapes, such as half- and quarter-round.Properly finished, it can take on the appearance of pretty-well any material you wish it to represent, and it can definitely be made to look more like wood than real wood.
Wayne
Most prototype wooden structures and railroad cars were pretty well maintained, and did not show grain until maintenance was compromised. As Ed and Wayne have suggested, styrene can be made to look like wood, and real wood often has a grain that is way out of scale. You can distress plastic to look like weathered wood, and you can seal wood to look prototypically smooth. If the wood is properly sealed, it usually won't suffer from shrinkage. I've worked successfully with both, and like them both.
A scratchbuilt project is really just a kit that you design yourself, make up your own instructions, and make all the parts yourself. Once you realize that, it becomes just another kit building project with a lot more steps and more opportunities for creativity.
Tom
ACY ...you can seal wood to look prototypically smooth. If the wood is properly sealed, it usually won't suffer from shrinkage.
...you can seal wood to look prototypically smooth. If the wood is properly sealed, it usually won't suffer from shrinkage.
Actually, to get the "prototypically smooth" surface, you've also got to do sanding (I know 'cause I've done it in the real world). And you frequently have to do seal/sand more than once. Do you recommend doing this operation before assembly? If so, it would seem one couldn't use wood glues, as there would be no penetration. Would one use epoxy or ACC? Also, how does one do the sanding on surfaces like clapboard and board-and-bat? Or, in fact, any "irregular" surface? Even shiplap could be a problem, because of the bits down in the grooves.
Sealing and sanding, to me, just ain't that much fun and is to be avoided.
In my much younger days, I built some wood car kits. For example, an Ambroid GN caboose (with a painted and lit interior). And a LaBelle combine. I was unaware of the fine points of wood finishing, like sealing and sanding. And the two cars consequently are not exactly show-stoppers, visually.
I fairly quickly got into styrene construction. I "built" an Ambroid TTX bulkhead flat by using styrene as a piece by piece wood replacement. And boxed the kit back up for potential resale. I then did another Ambroid, a CB&Q insulated box. That one had some metal castings that I needed, so it's really a hybrid. I also adapted an Athearn roof, rather than use a built-up one. But no wood.
Oops! One correction. I DID use wood on the flat. For the deck. Individual planks. Wood DOES do well for very rough woods. Like flat car decks, ties, and timber framing. However. I've seen a number of flat car decks made with plastic that were VERY presentable. So,now, I would likely go that route. After practicing.
I scratch and agment kits all the time. I find that some time a certain material works better for a part of the project or another. Roof for an example, if they have lots of rafter tails or I wich to remove it later, I prefer styrene as the small peices hold better. Very complex things I prefer styrene as it will be more durable. Also sometimes the look will dictate the material and I will use styrene for say the foundation and wood for the walls, I always use styrene window when I can whether a wood building or styrene.
i opt for stryeen because of our extream summer temps cause wood buildings to pop apart at the seams (cant afford the ac bill) in train building the amount of shapes and the other point speed being the top one.
Another great feature about styrene is that if you use solvent weld cement, a little touch up with 500-grit sandpaper can make the joints/seams completely invisible.
LINK to SNSR Blog
I wouldn't say that one material is necessarily preferable to the other. I use both, but tend to prefer styrene for most projects. I mostly use wood for things like trestles, retaining walls, and other models that represent unpainted wood.
Assembly and finishing techniques differ greatly between materials, so I'd suggest trying both to develop a wider range of skills.
These structures are wood, a combination of scratch and kits. I spray painted the depot, applying weathering later, while the others got stained first so weathered wood could show through the paint. The roof on the structure at left is styrene "metal" roofing from Evergreen.
This barn is styrene, a modified Walthers kit with a scratchbuilt addition. It was also spray painted, with dry brush and wash weathering. Visitors sometimes mistake it for wood.
Styrene lends itself to modeling metal, like the majority of the model above, or concrete. Even if you want to use wood for the bulk of a structure, knowing how to use styrene can help with parts of it where wood doesn't work as well.
Read up on, and practice, using both materials so you can utilize whichever one suits the project at hand.
Rob Spangler
I prefer using wood for things that are supposed to look like wood. But sometimes you don't have a choice, such as the deck of a flatcar which should be wood, but is actually plastic. Do a Google search on How to make styrene look like wood and you'll get a lot of tutorials.
I did the flatcar below following one of those tutorials. I first painted the deck with white craft paint. Then I streaked on some brown oil paint, and finally gave it a wash of India ink and alcohol. It looks better in person than in the photo.
Steve S
Steve:
It must look really good in person because I think it looks pretty good in the photo!
hon30critterSteve: It must look really good in person because I think it looks pretty good in the photo! Dave
Thanks. The photo has a bit of a shine to it caused by the flash, but the finish looks better in normal light.
I use wood because I like working with wood. But really, I think you can do either. And some guys like to build with metal.
If you haven't done so, you might want to build a wood kit and a plastic kit to see some of the differences. And see what you like.
Good luck
Paul
IRONROOSTERAnd some guys like to build with metal.
Yep!
This is the critter in my avatar. The locomotive body is scratch built from brass sheet. The drive is from an N scale Bachmann 4-4-0. The motor is in the gondola which was the original tender. I used styrene and metal to make the tender look like a work gondola:
Here is a second one under construction:
I built the first one within the first year in the hobby. I guess I didn't know any better. Nobody told me I couldn't do it!
The first critter in pieces:
Some other critters, all scratch built:
Mack 15 tonner with scratchbuilt drive (thanks to Darth Sante Fe for the design)
RTR is great, and I would have had a hard time building some of my RTR models, but doing it yourself is better!
Bottom line is that no one has to explain their preferences in this hobby!!!!
Some modelers will swear by wood and some will swear by styrene. Both are useful depending on the project.
I model Southern California in the 1950's where the most popular wall finish was/is stucco over concrete, concrete block, or wood framing. There aren't a lot of commercial kits made of stucco buildings. Thus, I get to scratch build a lot of structures. I find that styrene is easiest for me to work with as it is easy to cut, shape, glue and finish. It is also much cheaper than other materials. A local plastics supply house sells 4' by 8' sheets of 0.040" white styrene for $20 (black is $23). I can get a lot of structures built from one sheet of styrene. While it takes a little time and effort, I can cut any size sheet or strip I need from the 4' by 8' sheet, although I have to admit that anything smaller than .040" by .040" is difficult. I can scribe the styrene to resemble novelty siding or I can distress it with sandpaper and/or razor saws if I need it to look more like wood in very poor condition. I generally use Testors Liquid Plastic Cement in the clear glass bottle for quick joint adhesion although I find that the Testors Liquid Plastic Cement in the black plastic bottle with the applicator spout is handy when you need more time to position parts (it's a bit thicker than regular liquid plastic cements).
Since we usually see paint when we look at both protoytpe and model structures, the material the model is built from usually doesn't matter. Yes, if we are trying to build something like a collapsing barn with barely any paint left on it, we might want to use wood. However, any structure with even heavily deferred maintenance is far better represented by different painting techniques, not the base material. Thus, build your structures from whatever material you find easiest to work with and work on your painting skills to add texture and character to your buildings.
Hornblower
Hello all,
I agree with the, "Well it depends" camp.
I have scratch built rolling stock from wood; gondolas, box cars and frames for tankers, using coffee stir sticks, popcicle and tongue depressors type materials.
The latter two can be found in big-box stores as craft supplies. (No need to dig through the trash to obtain them.)
For the tank car bodies I used PVC pipe with styrene ends. I detailed these with styrene and brass elements.
For modern trestles, some structures and rolling stock I've used styrene elements from Tichy Train Group and Central Valley Model Works along with other styrene bits.
At a recent train show, I picked up several Suydam structure kits that are made of metal. The suggested method of construction is to solder the kits. They even supply a primer on soldering.
For these kits I chose a hybrid method of construction. I used wood stringers at the internal corners with epoxy that would adhere the two materials.
I also agree with those that suggest to work with the material(s) that you are most familiar with.
That is not to say that you can dabble in other materials to expand your modeling repertoire.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
IMHO - Both materials are must know for scratchbuilding. Styrene works well for some stuff, wood works well for other things. Pick one and start building.
If you are using wood, buy scale lumber form Kappler, Mt Albert etc...The fine grain basswood looks much better. NWSL chopper is a great tool for working in wood.
For plastic, get yourself some 123 blocks and a solid flat surface to build on. (I use a sheet of glass) Use rulers and straight edges to keep things square....
Great examples in this thread.
Dave - love the critters
Rob - cool buildings!
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
LION wants tso build this headhouse on the layout of him.
Him is not so great with styrine, gets nasty glue in the nice soft fur of him. Him will use chipboard braced with wood. Seems easiest to me, and will tacks my model building skills to the lomit.
That black colord blob of cardboard to the left is part of the tunnel, atop that is the road, and upon that road is to be builded the headhouse in question.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
I would suggest .060" thick photo mat board as an alternative that is really cheap and can be worked with.
The major issue with this material is that it is suseptable to humidity and war page, so the material works best when supported by .125" square strip wood.
And as a bonus, the pebble texture on some mat board can simulate stucco.
Some fine structures have been made with this material.
Jim (with a nod to Mies Van Der Rohe)
up831 .060" thick photo mat board as an alternative that is really cheap and can be worked with.
Having read about structure materials in old issues of MRR I decided to give mat board a try. The texture of the board helped my depiction of a concrete industrial structure and also offered a good surface on which to glue thin alum. corrugated siding. As up831 suggested I used sq. strip wood as bracing. Also coated the interior surfaces with shellac in hopes of mitigating moisture transfer. No signs of warping yet and they are over 3 yrs old and live on a garage layout.
Only drawbacks that I found and which might be attributed to my inexperience with the material is difficulty in removing the cloth like burrs from cut edges and making accuate window and door cut-outs because it doesn't take to sanding or filing.
Happy modeling, regards, Peter
This is an interesting discussion. Over the years, I have used wood of various kinds, styrene, resin, paper of various thicknesses from very thin one-ply Strathmore up to thick cardstock, fabrics, and clay. So far, the discussion has ignored metals. I've never used Cerro Metal, but I have used lead, steel, brass, and aluminum. I'm probably forgetting about something I've used, but over the years I've used almost everything except Silly Putty, and somebody may know a use for that. All of these materials have their uses, and each of us has his/her favorites. I do think metal --- especially brass --- deserves more attention than it has gotten here. When strength is required, you can't beat it. Sheet metal can be represented in thicknesses very close to the prototype, with greater strength and durability than paper or styrene.
That's a good-looking industrial structure, Peter! Very nicely done!!
Tom, most of the time when I use brass it's when working on steam locomotives, and even then, it's usually for adding piping or cast details. I did have need for the strength of brass on an in-progress rebuild of a Bachmann 2-6-6-2, though.The plastic valve gear hanger on the rear engine was bent upwards (probably an assembly error at the factory), with the result that some parts of the valve gear would hit the new air tanks I was adding. I used a cut-off disc in my motor tool to fabricate a reinforcing piece from .030" brass sheet. After bending it to the correct shape, it was placed atop the engine's gearbox and folded around the gear tower. I punched out a hole to accept the mounting boss for the engine, and the shape, plus upward pressure form the deformed plastic, keeps it securely in place. Not exactly scratchbuilding, but certainly a useful material:
I also used some shim brass to fabricate part of the doors on the loco's ash hopper: