It's harvest time on the prairies, and that means 40-foot boxcars are once again transporting grain from elevators on light-rail branchlines on the early 1990s-era M & M Sub. See more on my blog at http://cprailmmsub.blogspot.ca/2016/09/40-foot-boxcar-grain-rush-on-m-m-sub.html
John Longhurst, Winnipeg
Wouldn't 40' Center flow Grain Hoppers be taking that job, or do the elevators transport in boxes, sacks
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You do you. Everyone has their own way of doing things.
Greetings from Detroit Lakes,MN -Liam
Midwest Northern R.Ror do the elevators transport in boxes, sacks
When box cars were used, the grain wasn't in sacks, it was bulk loaded. Temporary/removable doors were installed, the grain spouted into the car, and then the outside doors were rolled shut.
Mike.
My You Tube
I was told that during harvest there just wasn'i enought covered hoppers to go around, and the light rail couldn't handle the wt.
Also that if really needed they even used reefers
By early 90's, very few boxcars were used to haul grain except on secondary lines to reach those isolated small elevators that still existed. Big guys had shifted to covered hoppers to save labor.
Paul D
N scale Washita and Santa Fe RailroadSouthern Oklahoma circa late 70's
If you follow the OP's link, he says there were 300 box cars used on branch lines in Canada in the era he models. I say go for it.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddyI say go for it.
Yea, same here, there were times when hoppers were in big demand, and short supply.
Looks like a fun layout you have there John, I like it. I noticed the Fort Frances area you have on the upper deck. Brings back memories. We used to go in to Fort Frances quite a bit when I lived up by International Falls. Fort Frances was the only one with a McDonald's back then
I found it interesting. One of the guys at my train club showed me some images how the Railroad used to load grain in the box cars with a sheet of plywood over the inside of the door and filled it up and then put another sheet and filled it up as far as they could before they closed the outside door. I just always wondered how they unloaded them.
I seen in MR magazine later, how they used to put plywood up on the inside of the side walls In cattle cars and do the same thing in some areas in the US. Sure hope someone cleaned the floors good first
I find it easy to believe even in the 90s when the railroad was short on Hopper cars they would go back to Old School in a pinch to get the job done. The railroad does what they have to do to deliver.
TF
Some of the older branchlines in the Canadian prairies were light rail and couldn't handle the new 100-ton covered hoppers that were being introduced. Boxcars were used on some of these routes up into the 1990s. During the 1970s-80s the government of Canada invested a lot into supporting grain movements. They:
1 - invested in huge fleets of new 100-ton covered hoppers (the well known and eye-catching brown and later red cylindrical hoppers) which they provided to the railways for exclusive use hauling grains
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cnwx395583&o=wheatboard
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cnwx111874&o=wheatboard
2 - invested in upgrading certain branchlines for heavier service, including providing new ballast hoppers to CN and CP, which had Government of Canada Branchline Rehabilitation Program stencilling
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?o=cn&i=cn90392
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cn90392detail2&o=cn
3 - invested in reconditioning hundreds of older 40' boxcars for use on the older lines that weren't upgraded. These were marked for grain service some with a large wheat head logo on it to indicate exclusive use for grain hauling as they were repaired with government investment.
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cp123609&o=cprail
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
The provincial governments also got in on the action:
Alberta:
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=alpx628006&o=alberta
Saskatchewan:
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=skpx625128&o=sask
Manitoba:
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cn446082&o=cn
https://tracksidetreasure.blogspot.com/2012/05/manitoba-covered-hoppers.html
Great information Chris. Gives me some insight into the cylindrical hoppers.
I too learned about grain runs. Love the scenery! The pic shows some really long consists. Wow!
Thanks Chris for the Canadian Freight images and specs. I am going to have to look again but I swear I see the red Canadian cylindrical hopper cars driving by the Saint Paul yard.
I have a lot of Canadian Rolling Stock for my layout. My favorite railroad I grew up near was a line that ran from Fort Frances to Duluth Minnesota. I do believe it went from Fort Frances to Winnipeg as well.
Duluth Winnipeg and Pacific. I think that railroad is owned by CN. That would only make sense because the DWP box cars look exactly like the CN ones.
It wasn't till later I was told a box car with green doors means it's hauling paper. Well this only makes sense since Boise Cascade of International Falls is such a huge paper mill and promotes a lot of traffic on that line.
I have heard Corporation of America is in the process of buying Boise Cascade. The last big hit International Falls took is when BE&K automated that paper mill many years ago.
I am a little concerned about two of my friends that work there as I'm sure they are concerned about their job.
Take care. Track Fiddler
Image of the Sister Green Door box cars and some of my other Canadian Freight cars in my collection.
Green doors on CN cars meant it was designated for hauling lumber, not paper. CN's newsprint/paper service cars had yellow doors. (From about the early 1960s-early 1980s.)
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cn401527_3&o=cn
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cn557418&o=cn
CP Rail paper cars were painted entirely green to distinguish them. (After the late 1960s to early 1990s.) CP introduced some colourful schemes in 1967 which were modified slightly with the CP Rail paint scheme and branding introduced in late 1968. The new CP Rail scheme applied the following colours:
Red - standard colour for locomotives and most freight cars (boxcars, gondolas, flatcars)
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cp53242&o=cprail
Yellow - cabooses and insulated/heated boxcars
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cp35087&o=cprail
Green - paper service boxcars
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cp57493&o=cprail
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cpi85509&o=cprail
Silver - refridgerators
(small number of repaints, easier to find model photos than prototype)
Black - open & covered hoppers
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cp384772&o=cprail
The 1967 precursors, still using the old script lettering, were only applied to a few series of new cars built in 1967-68.
Teal-green with unique large round pine tree logo paper service boxcars.
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cp81000&o=cprail
Golden-yellow with red script lettering insulated/heated cars.
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cp167032&o=cprail
Silver with maroon script lettering reefers.
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cp286152&o=cprail
Also a small handful of cabooses got repainted during this window with red sides and yellow ends. Nicknamed "Kodachrome" cabooses by railfans.
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cp437123&o=cprail
Get to see some boxcar action in this film. I have heard that heavy cardboard was also used to cover the doors.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Yea, I watched a video of a loading facility that the CN runs, here in WI, where brewers grain is loaded into containers for shipment overseas for animal food.
They used a conveyor, the container still on the truck frame, and the truck pulled ahead, as the container filled. They didn't show what they used to block the door, the next thing you seen was the container getting loaded onto a well car.
Fifteen years agp I visited a Pioneer/Menonite museum south of Winnipeg.
They had a boxcar being rigged for grain shipment circa 1950. It had boards over the door openings, with the lower ones ar least fastened from the outside. The idea was that getting the bottom board off would allow much of the grain to flow into a pit.
Dave
Track Fiddler, the DW&P is owned by CN. The line ends at Fort Frances where it connects with the CN line that goes from Winnipeg to Thunder Bay. This is CN's second line to Thunder Bay and is/was used mostly to transport grain. At Rainy River, which was a Division Point, there is a 2-10-2 on display which ran on that line. They used those engines as they needed the power to pull the heavy grain trains.
CN Charlie
I have a couple of grain boxcars. My trains are packed away, but I think they were from Walthers and probably the Milwaukee Road.
I have a Walthers kit re-badged as vthe Powder Milk Biscuit company which is my destination for theses cars.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I have seen that 2-10-2 Charlie. I wish you had a picture of it to display. I know I do, I just don't know where it is.
Mister Beasley, dig those boxcars out. I don't know anyting about the Powder Milk Biscuit Company but I would like to see those! ..... and a little more elaboration. TF
Who needs a switch engine? Just push the box car yourself! (ending of the first video).
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
DW&P and DM&IR were both incorporated into Canadian National proper about 15 years ago, so don't really exist except on paper (although there are still one or two Missabe engines in the maroon paintscheme). The two lines ran close enough to each other that CN decided to treat them as a double-track mainline, so trains between Winnipeg and Duluth normally go one direction on the old Missabe and the opposite direction on the old DWP.
I'm not an expert on this, but I believe the old large red "CANADA" covered hoppers were originally owned or operated by the Canadian Wheat Board(?) but were split up between CN and CP at some point. As was noted, there always seems to be some of them around here in St. Paul's CP (ex-Milwaukee Road) yard southeast of downtown.
wjstix DW&P and DM&IR were both incorporated into Canadian National proper about 15 years ago
DW&P and DM&IR were both incorporated into Canadian National proper about 15 years ago
That's not quite correct.
DW&P yes. It was a Canadian National subsidiary from pretty much the beginning and what you say is true there, although I think things have integrated a bit longer than 15 years now.
DM&IR was a completely separate railroad. CN only bought it in 2004 from the previous owner.
wjstixI'm not an expert on this, but I believe the old large red "CANADA" covered hoppers were originally owned or operated by the Canadian Wheat Board(?) b
Yes, and originally they had CNWX or CPWX reporting marks. The CNWX cars were owned by the government/wheat board and assigned to CN for use. The CPWX cars were assigned to CP.
About 10 years ago or so now (how time flies!) the cars were transferred to the railroads and the "WX" part of the reporting mark was painted out changing them to just CN and CP cars. Lots of them still running around. Some have also migrated on to other second hand ownerships as well.
cv_acr wjstix DW&P and DM&IR were both incorporated into Canadian National proper about 15 years ago DW&P yes. It was a Canadian National subsidiary from pretty much the beginning and what you say is true there, although I think things have integrated a bit longer than 15 years now. DM&IR was a completely separate railroad. CN only bought it in 2004 from the previous owner.
Well, yes actually, it is quite correct.
People often write that "Soo Line was always a subsidiary of Canadian Pacific" or "DWP was a CN subsidiary" etc. but that's not really accurate. US law, at least into the NAFTA era of the 1990's, required US railroads to be more than 50% owned by US individuals or corporations. So DWP was affiliated with CN for years, and CN may have been the largest single stockholder, but DWP was a separately incorporated US railroad with it's own headquarters, officers, etc.
When the laws changed so CN and CP could take greater control of their US affiliates, DWP was essentially made part of the CN system, and then they bought the DMIR to aid their plan for a Winnipeg - Chicago mainline. However even now I believe both DWP and DMIR (and IC)are owned by a US company called something like "Grand Trunk Enterprises", a holding company for all of CN's US railroad holdings. At least on paper they are still to some extent US companies, separated a bit from CN proper.
wjstix US law, at least into the NAFTA era of the 1990's, required US railroads to be more than 50% owned by US individuals or corporations. So DWP was affiliated with CN for years, and CN may have been the largest single stockholder, but DWP was a separately incorporated US railroad with it's own headquarters, officers, etc.
US law, at least into the NAFTA era of the 1990's, required US railroads to be more than 50% owned by US individuals or corporations. So DWP was affiliated with CN for years, and CN may have been the largest single stockholder, but DWP was a separately incorporated US railroad with it's own headquarters, officers, etc.
Well, that law is pretty much the only reason DW&P, Central Vermont and Grand Trunk Western even existed as separate entities in the first place.
However you want to cut it legally, the point is that there was always a family affiliation between those roads.
There was zero affiliation between CN and DM&IR until CN bought it in 2004.