Where did sam-in-florida go?
Around the walls gives you a lot more layout space than a 4 by 8 table plunked down in the middle of your 10 by 9.5 foot room. Are you gonna do a full doughnut and accept the necessary duck under? I did that, and I can still get myself under the duckunder, but as years go by it gets harder. Or do you want to leave an opening in the doughnut at the cost of a point to point layout? I like a full loop main line so once I get a train out on the main I can enjoy watching it run for a while, several trips around the layout at least.
I too can strongly recommend the John Armstrong book "Track Planning for Realistic Operations", I have it, it was inspiration and a vital handbook with all sorts of important numbers in it.
Track plans are in short, a main line and a bunch of spurs to bring rail service to on line industries. Plus "staging tracks" upon which ready to run trains (locomotive, enough cars, a caboose) can sit and come out onto the main line for just throwing a turnout or two. Cooler than setting out a new train from a storage shelf, putting all the cars on the track, coupling them together. For a layout of your size, make your staging tracks into a regular rail yard.
Lets assume you are doing HO. Your curves have to be at least 18" radius, any tighter and stuff derails. On 18 inches you are limited to small steamers, four axle diesels, and no full length passenger cars. If you can squeeze in 24 inch main line curves you can run just about anything.
Think about a nice river flowing thru a deep valley, with the trains soaring above the water on mighty bridges. You don't have to build that right away, but if you don't reserve a space for it, you will never get it in later. Think about mountains, with tunnels, serving as scene boundaries. Think about any other big space eaters, like a turntable and roundhouse.Then locate industries and the spurs to serve them.
I assume you are planning a double track main, so you can run east bound and west bound trains at the same time on separate tracks. Be sur to allow several crossovers between to two main line tracks.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
I am not a fan of the just do it approach if for no other reason than money is for most of us not an infinate resource and you could end up making some costly mistakes as I and I am sure all of have.
On the other hand not doing anything and reading ad naseum is not good either. In my opinion going with a published track plan is not a bad idea. You can personalize it with the era the structures and operations you choose to model. Thus I think it's a good compromise.
Joe Staten Island West
Henry:
After years of re-working my track plan I have been able to correct almost all of the original mistakes that I made that you refer to in your second point. However, I still seem to have a lot of track ( that is your first point). I can justify every little piece of it but in the back of my mind I still hear those far more experienced modellers who say "...less is more...". I guess I'll have to build the layout to really find out if they are right.
All the best!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critterIn any case, you would probably benefit from studying the track plan data base on this website if you haven't already done so, and reading John Armstrong's 'Track Planning for Realistic Operation' which I believe was already suggested by a previous poster.
I second (or third) that suggestion. Forum member Sir Madog is a wizard with SCARM.
As a newbie you are prone to the 2 same mistakes we all made.
1 Cram too much track into too little space.
2 Create impossibly short radius turnouts to make it all work.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Sam:
A couple of forum members seem to have decided to start a fire fight over how to design a layout. That's an unfortunate distraction from your original question, but please don't let it turn you off from using and participating in the forums.
As I said in a previous post, some layout plans have to be taken with a pinch of salt. Others, like the Virginian plan that carl425 suggested, have actually been constructed and do work.
If you have a layout plan in mind, my suggestion is to draw it out in simple form without worring about too many details. If you don't like the computer design programs then do it on paper. Using graph paper and a compass to draw the curves is a good idea.
Once you have your basic plan established, then you can go back and test the plan for its workability. In other words, are the curves to tight or the grades too steep etc.
As an alternative, some very accomplished model railroaders have taken what I would call a much bolder approach. They built their benchwork first and then designed their track plan to fit it, usually by simply starting to lay track and seeing where it took them. Doctorwayne is one stellar example of successfully using that approach.
In any case, you would probably benefit from studying the track plan data base on this website if you haven't already done so, and reading John Armstrong's 'Track Planning for Realistic Operation' which I believe was already suggested by a previous poster.
Good luck, and have fun!
UNCLEBUTCHYou can countinue to follow instructions, I'll let my imagination carry me forward
But it's not about you. It's about the OP who is starting his first layout.
Whether or not this aproach worked for you doesn't change the fact that it's bad advice for a guy you know next to nothing about starting a first layout.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
carl425 UNCLEBUTCH Any published track plan is nothing more then someones idea,I didn't know they came guarantied to preform. I'm not talking about the plan that accompanies a 2 page article on Joe Blow's layout. I'm talking about something like the Virginian project railroad where the MR staff takes you step by step through the construction of the whole layout. Remember the old "SIX HO Model Railroads You Can Build" or "The HO Model Railroad That Grows"? Something documented in that style is what I would look for. There have been dozens of them over the years. And yes, for the most part if you faithfully follow the instructions they are going to work.
UNCLEBUTCH Any published track plan is nothing more then someones idea,I didn't know they came guarantied to preform.
I'm not talking about the plan that accompanies a 2 page article on Joe Blow's layout. I'm talking about something like the Virginian project railroad where the MR staff takes you step by step through the construction of the whole layout. Remember the old "SIX HO Model Railroads You Can Build" or "The HO Model Railroad That Grows"? Something documented in that style is what I would look for. There have been dozens of them over the years. And yes, for the most part if you faithfully follow the instructions they are going to work.
I don't care who drew the plan,the fact is thats its someone else idea,not mine.I would not want a layout that's just like 14others.
Its true, on my nonplan track plan, I came to spots where a turnout would not fit,, so what? move over, cut back, do it over? I found it enjoyable to think out a proublem, rather then have some one hold my hand while I build thiire layout.
You can countinue to follow instructions, I'll let my imagination carry me forward
UNCLEBUTCHAny published track plan is nothing more then someones idea,I didn't know they came guarantied to preform.
carl425Whether you plan it yourself, buy a book with a plan, get a plan online, hire a professional planner is up to you, but let Nike (just do it) take a hike.
Any published track plan is nothing more then someones idea,I didn't know they came guarantied to preform.
I assumed the OP had enough skill to join two scections of track, enough common scense to curve the tract before the edge of the table ,and enough imagination to picture what HE wants.
I agree that there are somethings that should be avoided but we all learned them along the way.If the knowitall committee stays out of it, the OP may have trains running befor he grows tired of looking at published track plans.
UNCLEBUTCHMy point; you do not need a plan on paper, to get started.
Prior planning prevents poor performance! How many times have you heard that?
A third option, (really 2nd option as I flatly reject the "just do it" suggestion). If you don't want to put the effort into learning how to devise your own plan and plan it yourself, build one of the published plans. MRR's Virginian would be a good choice as every step along the way is clearly documented for you. I also think the new Canadian Canyons project looks pretty cool too if you're interested in starting with a little more advanced layout. The classic Clinchfield project layout is a ready-to-build donut that fits your around the walls preference.
Whether you plan it yourself, buy a book with a plan, get a plan online, hire a professional planner is up to you, but let Nike (just do it) take a hike.
the way I see it, you have two choices. But you still need to have an idea/picture in your mind of what you want, this can & will change as you go forward.
" A " you buy a bunch of books, spend hours,days years, to study them. Spend same or more amout of time fooling with the computer, to come up with said track plan, then submit said plan to the ''committee'' for approval. Most are rejected for all kinds of flaws. This can take years, and become overwhelming.
I believe many wouldbe modelers give up at this point.
Or choice B, You have your space; build some bench work, you don't even need it all built at once, Buy some flex track,and a few turnouts, and lay track ,useing that picture in your mind as a plan.If it don't work or look right, change it.
I used foam , so all track is held in place with pins, easy to move,
My point; you do not need a plan on paper, to get started.
jjdamnitI began my pike on graph paper with pencil and a BIG eraser. It went through many versions before I began purchasing track let alone placing the first sections.
If your biggest struggle is with the CAD program you're trying to work with, this might be the most important piece of info yet. Good old graph paper can keep your measuring semi-honest and wielding a pencil can be much faster, even with lots of erasing, than trying to use a keyboard to do the same thing. You can then arrive at a sketch you can invest the time in documenting and verifying on the computer.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Hi Sam-in-Florida!
Congratulations on making your first Post!
Pretty good advice so far.
One place you can see lots of layout plans is right here on this website. MR has several hundred different plans available for free. Go to the black header line at the top of the page and click on 'How To'. In the middle column you will see 'Track Planning Database'. Once you bring the database up you can use filters to narrow your search down to the layouts that will be most relevent, although there is nothing wrong with looking at larger layouts as well.
I would suggest that you don't immediately restrict your layout options by deciding, for example, that you can only have 2 ft wide shelves. Look through all the plans that are suggested for roughly 100 sq. ft. You may discover alternatives.
A word of caution. Some of the smaller plans can be a little 'enthusiastic' about what will actually work. Watch for grades that are too steep and curves that are too tight to be functional. Your equipment and scale will determine minimum grades and radii.
Regards,
Hello all,
Welcome to your first layout!
As the famous HO scale modeler John Allen once wrote,
"A model railroad should probably start with a concept, but seldom will a first model railroad have one. Why? Because much knowledge about railroading, experience in model railroading, and thought are required before a proper concept for a model railroad can be formed. These requirements are seldom possible on a first pike. Mine was no exception."
I believe you have answered a few of the questions posed by carl425:
You didn't mention scale or era.
Scales importance is pretty obvious. If you are running O scale you might be able to fit an industrial switching layout in the space you mentioned. If you are using N scale you can build quite an empire in that same space.
Another question I have is are you planning on using DC or DCC?
There are many in these forums that are quite content with DC operation. Personally I would begin with DCC operation.
Era or time frame is important because it will help you in choosing your locomotives; steam, diesel or transition (both).
Some pikes are set in one particular day. Some, like mine, are set in a time frame; 1970's to '80's. While others time warp- -one operating session will be steam era set in the 1930's and the next operating session could be set in the 21st century with modern diesels and stack trains.
Why is era or theme important?
This will help determine the minimum radius of your curves. Because of limited space I run 4-axle diesels and small switchers. The steam motive power for the Olde Tyme excursion train is a 0-6-0 and a 0-4-0.
I can get away with a minimum radius of 15-inches with a maximum radius of 22-inches. With #2 and #4 turnouts. Tight to say the least.
If your are running SD's or Articulateds then your minimum curves will need to be somewhere between 22- and 36-inches.
For ideas on a track plans I would suggest taking a look at the Atlas HO Code 100/Code 83 Layout Galleries.
There are also several books from Kalembach regarding everything from basic planning to building bench work and even one Shelf layouts.
I began my pike on graph paper with pencil and a BIG eraser. It went through many versions before I began purchasing track let alone placing the first sections.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Here's some decisions you need to make before you start planning.
These should get you started. I know it's a lot, but many model railroads have died early because the builder hadn't set well defined and reachable goals up front.
And BTW, as a first layout you if want to use it to help you answer all the above for your next layout, that's OK too as long as you know that going in.
Pick up a copy of John Armstrong's book "Track Planning for Realistic Operation".
Hello, I have been for many years following model railroader and have always wanted to build a layout of my own. I finally have space in my garage where I can build but I need some help with track planning ... I have a space that is 10ft x 9.5ft that i would like to build an around the walls shelf layout about 2 ft wide all around .. i have been trying to work with scarm track planning software but the track planning part is really stumping me ... i am looking to something with two main lines, one for passenger and one for freight with a couple industries (i.e. rock disribution plant, and an intermodal terminal, and some city wharehouse and factory scenes) and a couple of amtrak stations for passenger train. Am really excited to do some modeling and scenery just not having any luck getting some track plans done. If someone could help me out with some good starter track plan ideas it would be greatly appreciated.