In an attempt to begin a layout, I have been doing a lot of research about the former Minneapolis, Northfield, & Southern (now Progressive Rail). I recently moved to the Lakeville/Farmington, Minnesota area where Progressive Rail maintains a small yard that serves the Lakeville Industrial Park. There is still a daily train (from what I gathered) that goes between Lakeville and Northfield to the south. My hope is to use this line as a prototype for my proto-freelanced Erris & Spears Railroad. This railroad would be a shortline that runs a few local and switching routes with two yards at either end of the sections. There might be a few trains that go across the layout that are through freights using the line as a branchline.
The materials I currently have to use for the layout are five sections of ⅜” shelving. The shelving was taken from a metal shelf purchased for storage in a garage. The shelves are made of wood shavings/chip board type stuff. Each section is approximately 2’ wide by 4’ long. They seem fairly sturdy and are said to hold up to 50 lbs per shelf.
My question is do I use ½” homasote on top of each section or do I use 2” extruded foam? On top of whatever I choose, would I need to use cork road bed, too?
Building benchwork is my next item, and probably most important. The house my fiancee and I bought does not allow me to use an entire room for a layout (and I do not agree with her joking recommendation of using the crawl space under our steps). This layout must be able to be taken down when we need space for family gatherings or when it is not being used/worked on. I have space under the steps where I can build shelves/brackets to place the sections on when not in use. I just need a place to put the sections when I want to use them to run trains or work on scenery.
What type of benchwork is recommended for a module type layout that must be easily taken down and hidden? I thought about sawhorses of some kind, but was wondering if there were any better recommendations.
Also, what is recommended to connect modules for continuous running of trains?
Thank you for any information or guidance! I am sure I’ll be posting more questions as I progress through the building process.
To me 3/8-inch wood seems a bit thin for supporting a layout. Most go with nominal half inch thick plywood (7/8th or something near half inch) or in my case I used OSB waver-board and that worked well. Particle board most people would recomend against.
For frame, many use open grid made from 1x4 main frame with 1x3's for cross members. Thats what I used and am pleased. I used 2x2's for legs and of course diagonal braces.
I used 1/4-inch thick carriage bolts to hold on legs and to bolt together the modular sections I used for frames.
I used 1/2 inch sheet homasote over the OSB waver board in the yards and cork in the rest of the mainline. Many use foam and glue their track down but I prefer old school spike and nails driven into the wood or the Homasote. Once I am happy with everything and the track is ballasted, it will be secure and I can pull out any nails or spikes.
If it's of any help, here is a link to a topic at another forum where I posted layout progress photos. You can see benchwork going together as you progress through the series:
http://atlasrescueforum.proboards.com/thread/3737/jims-layout-progress?page=1
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I might have a similar shelving unit...the first thing I did before assembling it was paint all sides (and edges too) with polyurethane, at least 2 coats. My shelves held up better than a friend who bought the same shelves.
That aside, I wouldn't use those shelves for a layout...you could, but it's probably easier to start from scratch. I belong to a couple of free-mo groups, check their building methods (one module, of a car float yard, can be found at smallmr.com). Those modules are lightweight and set up very quick (and ran well) at last weekends' free-mo setup at Huckleberry Railroad near Flint, MI.
You might consider using an interior hollow-core door for ease of construction, or try a torsion box (or sandwich construction) if you're up for a bit of a challenge (but with a big weight savings). I've seen modules built with 3/4" plywood everywhere and modules with 1/4" plywood frames and 2" foam top...it's all how you brace it. 2" foam with 1x2 cross braces every 12"-16" and 1/4" plywood front and back (3/4" endplates on the ends) can work fine. Use high quality plywood, not cheap 'luan' underlayment and high quality 1x2's (check for straightness when buying the lumber...it will pay off in the long run).
Folding legs that stay with the modules is probably easiest but removable legs work fine (pcv, metal conduit and wood all work well...especially if diagonals are used. My modules are my home layout so I made brackets out of 1x4's and attached them to my basement walls so I don't have to deal with legs that interfere with under-layout storage.
Module construction is a hot topic (in a good way) and too broad to answer all questions here (at once). I bet no matter how you build it, you will succeed and (at the same time) see how to build your next modules even better.
http://delray1967.shutterfly.com/pictures/5
SEMI Free-Mo@groups.io
How big is your module going to be? Can we see a picture of a trackplan for it?
Don't waste your time, that material is not suited for your intended purpose. You would be better off with a block of 2" foam.
Thank you all for the posts and suggestions! It's gotten the wheels turning in my head with what to do, and a lot of confusion on what method I want to go with.
I was at one of the major home supply stores today, and looked to see what it was that I have in the garage to use; 3/8" particle board. If I were to use this, I would put this material on underneath either homasote or the extruded foam. Is either of these methods recommended? Or, should I stick to using 1/2" plywood with homasote on top? Or, just go with 2" foam and call it good?
When building the benchwork for this module set up, I was thinking of a cradle type system that the 2" foam could be dropped into place? Have removable legs that could easily be stored and interchanged between the cradle systems. My goal is to use as little space as possible for the system. Carpentry is not my strong suit, so the simpler the better for me.
As far as a track plan, I do not currently have one drawn out. I have a few Google Maps saved to use as an idea/guide and a lot of ideas written down in my notebook for what I'd like to include. I want this to be a typical shortline railroad that mainly does switching between two yards. A mainline could be used for through freights and for the shortline to serve the various industries. Personal preference is to use GPs, gondolas, hoppers, and boxcars mostly.
I'll be modeling in HO and a modern era layout. With five sections that are 2' x 4', I have a few ideas for what each section will include. I'm debating if I'll have enough space to put all sections in a 20' straight layout, or if I'll have to do a modified "L" shape with one or two sections making up the "L". This may allow me to better hide the layout in one corner of the downstairs living room.
Going from left to right when linked up ("L" or otherwise) here is what I'm visualizing for the layout.
Section 1 will include a small yard area with the Walthers ADM elevator and maybe a single line engine/car service facility on the outsides with 2-3 tracks in between for the yard. Space is definitely a concern here. The mainline would run along the front of the section with the elevator in the back left corner. Along the back, I'd like to add another industry that could be served/switched. The service facility would be next to the mainline. The small yard would hopefully 2-4 lines that holds grain hoppers and a few other cars.
Section 2 could be used as the start of the yard. Near the mainline, I'd like to have an abandoned depot that serves as a historical society. I'd like to have a spur that goes towards a warehouse/cold storage facility, too. Additionally, I'd like to have a team track for loading/unloading of goods. The siding could potentially be used as the yard lead going into the 1st section.
Section 3 is going to be used as the buffer/countryside of the layout showing that there are two towns being served by the railroad. This section would include the mainline running along the front of the layout. The mainline would go between a small grove of trees, too. Ideally, I'd like to have a small spur that leads to a scrapyard that is typical of what you'd find in the countryside for this location. There'd be a paved road that crosses the tracks and goes down the middle of the section where there'd be a bar and maybe a gas station amongst fields. If possible, somehow working in a raill line along the back would be a nice addition.
Section 4 is the start of another small town. This section would include the mainline running along the front. A siding could lead into the yard lead in the 5th section. In this 4th section, I'd like to include a brewery or distribution facility and a small elevator (was thinking this would be near the siding making switching easier to accomplish. Along the back of this section, I'd use business fronts to showcase a town scene.
Lastly, the 5th section would either be in an "L" shape requiring the mainline to run along the outside of the "L" to sweep into the 4th section properly. Alternatively, if the layout is one straight 20' layout, the mainline could be either in the front or the back. This last section would house a hardware/home supply center that could receive boxcars or centerbeam flats. I'd like to once again have a small yard. Here, I'd like to have a yard office and a facility for MOW equipment. If the mainline runs along the front of the section, I'd like to have another industry along the back that can be switched.
I'll attempt to draw up some plans, but they may not be very good. I'm more of a visual person, so laying the track out would be best for me and then adding in the buildings (drawn or cut from paper) to get an accurate idea. Buildings would likely be Walthers purchases as they match my comfort level with building structures right now.
you can use 2in foam an a simple 1x4 fram, 2x2 for legs,lay track on the foam or buy roadbed.
You do understand; that you will need somekind of alignment system to make sure all lines up each time, and to get wireing from one to the next.
IMO,, if you must put it up, then take it down and put away every time you get the urge to play, you will soon lose interest, why must you ''hide'' anything??
For the most part, the last layout will stay up unless we are hosting a family get together or some sort of event. I may try and persuade her to let me keep it up in a corner of the downstairs family room that is away from where the couch and TV are located. I understand it'll be a process to build it one section at a time, which will keep my interest going to get each section how I'd like it to look. I would like to work from left to right on the layout and build each section as I get closer to having to add another.
Electrical was was going to be another question/post. Currently, I have one DC throttle set (name slips my mind at the moment). Ideally, I'd like to leave the layout looking realistic with one or two locomotives sitting in the yard waiting for assignment while another one or two is being used for switching. I have looked into the basic NCE DCC system to do this. However, I've been told DCC might be overkill for the layout type in wanting to build.
How much of a challenge is wiring a modular layout for DC compared to DCC? I've seen a few bench work systems where holes are drilled into the framing for wiring.
Don't intend to sound like a hard case, but the house is 1/2 yours.
even crude benchwork can be hidden with curtins or pannels.
one section at a time is a good idea. I started with a 2x8, had to move it 3 times, but then I added on 5 times. If you can get one sect. almost finished befor moving on, it will look better then a mess of wood and {foam}.I'm no expert on DCC, but when I switched over it just 2 wires. They need to go from point A to point B,over under or thru.
I don't understand ''overkill'', DCC is just a different way to control the train,I think way better, besides I"m hooked on sound
UNCLEBUTCH Don't intend to sound like a hard case, but the house is 1/2 yours.
What, like half his and half his wifes? You have forgotten the saying, "happy wife, happy life". Just a guess on my part but his wife may not see it as half his. Just sayin...
Regardless of why I may need to put the layout away, I'm looking for advice on how to build bench work (which everyone has helped greatly with), what to use for the top of the layout, to use DC or DCC, and how to connect the different modules sections together. Of these, what method is best for connecting the sections?
Also, i do have a large box of Atlas track (sectional), but I'm unsure of what code it is. What is recommended for this type of layout? Code and flex of sectional?
For the record, I will not be putting away the layout after every time I use it, however, if space is limited for any reason, it may have to be set aside. I am intrigued, now, about setting it up as a "L" in a back corner that is out of the way where most people would gather.
Thank you for all the help and advice. It is much appreciated
A simple way to hook up modules, two bolts and wingnuts, they don't need to be very big,and finger thight should work.
unless you will have other stuff to power,crossing gates and such, its 2 wires. As simple as a block with screws to any kind of plugs in connectors,many kinds out there.
other thenlooks, I don't believe code make a lot of difference, your turnouts will decide for you, I use peco 83,therefore all track is 83.
if your old track is brass, I would't mess with it. Other then that; track is track sec. or flex. I think flex is easyer to lay, and faster.I didn't use a plan,and found that with flex I could cheat a little here and there ,to get a broader curve, or thigten it up to fit my table top
IMO there is no best way. more like what works for you, with the space,materials, skill,and budget you have.Once you get started,you will be amazed as how a little experence can solve a lot of problems
Thank you for the response! It's making a lot of sense for how to create the bench work and how to connect each section. I'm slowly developing an idea of how to build I and what I'll need to to get there.
Ill have to look at the box of track, but I believe it is not brass, a few pieces potentially. I purchased it all 10+ years ago, so itll have to be cleaned regardless.
For wiring, I don't plan to have anything additional for wiring, just the traims for right now. With DCC is it as simple as one or two wires, similar to DC? Do the DCC remotes remember locomotives if the system is unplugged?
Lastly, to clarify, if I were to use 2" foam, would I also need plywood under it? Going with ho adore requires some sort of plywood under it, correct?
On mine, I built a frame of 1x4, well not really, I used scrap lumber that I had, some 1x4 1x3 what ever, anyway, a frame 2ft x 8ft, with a couple cross members. Glue/caulk 2in foam to top,,done.I dont use facia,no need for anything under foam. You can span 2in foam 2f and more, you are only supporting a couple pounds of plastic Can be very simple or overbuild.You can lay track right on foam, or use roadbed, I don't.
Basic wireing is 2 wires, when I switched over I removed the 2 wires from DC transformer,and hooked them to DCC station,,done.Wireing can be as simple or complex as you want.
You may want to start with a 8 ft table, or in your case 2 4s,you don't get a lot of track in a 4ft space
Without going to look, I believe my system will hold 10 units. I only have 3 engines, and over the years got a handheld throttle for each. This may be overkill, but I can just grab the throttle/engine I want and go.
Keep in mind, that these are my opinions, may or maynot work for you
Unclebutch, your advice is very helpful, and I am very appreciative you have responded. Your method of bench work and wiring for DCC is very helpful. With a lot of expenses for a wedding in just over a month, any advice on how to build on the cheap is helpful.
with track being laid on 2" foam, can spikes/naila be used or must it be glued down? I would imagine it can be tacked down until a track plan has been tested and seems to work. Once these choices have been made, the track can be glued down?
Thank you again!
most of my track just sat there,only place I needed to hold it was on curves. I took some large paper clips,cut in half,= 2 u shape pins,push them over the tie.outside of rail[,some is still like that]. Being that I didn,t use a track plan, I was always moving stuff.If and when your happy withwhere it lays; you can glue it down withcaulk. Just a thin layer, every ft. or so,add some weight, books, canned goods,over nite. It can be moved again by slipping a putty under,it'll pop right up. Should you decide to ballest, that will hold it. As I said I still have some that floats,not sure I like where it is.
If you want cheap; around here a 4x8 sheet of 2in foam is <20$>. THey will sell 1/2 sheet =10$ a coulpe of saw horses, cant be mutch more,or make your own. lay foam on horse, lay track.Simple,cheap, kinda ulgy, but would work.
My nephew had a 4x8 Nscale layout on a sheet of foam, on the floor. just pushed it under the bed when not in use, I know he found the foam,didn't cost anything,no bench work=cheap. I wouldn't even think about spending that mutch time on my knees
I hear ya about $s. I retired and have to think before spending.
Have you decided on a scale yet?
If not, what about looking at the Ntrak standard (ntrak.org). It fits on 2x4 modules and is made to be torn down and moved. Also, if you have a regional ntrak group you can team up your modules with someone else's and run big trains.
You could build some sort of a frame to store the modules in when you have to hide them.
Brammy, I considered N scale, but I have a lot of HO already from when I first started in the hobby. HO is the scale that I would prefer to work with and where my interest is greatest. I like the ability to fit more railroad into a smaller space, though. However, I'm committed to HO.
The 1st question you really need to ask yourself is, "Am I always going to connect the modules/sections in the same order?" If the answer is no, then you need to use an existing modular system, or invent your own.
For example, Free-mo modules can be of any length, but the end is tightly specified so that any module can connect with any other module. Modules can be turned end for end, as well. The variable module length is great for point-to-point or even loop-to-loop layouts, but does not work for oval track plans.
Similarly, the track plan flexibility inherent in modular layouts is not very practical for DC wiring, which needs some advance planning and knowledge of track configuration to work well with more than one locomotive. For that reason, all the current modular systems use DCC or other command control.
OTOH, if you always connect the sections in the same order and configuration, that is generally called a sectional layout. The interface at the end of the sections can vary, depending on your needs and desires, since it will always connect to the same adjacent section.
As for track at the section/module ends, there are 2 schools of thought where the layout is often being taken down or assembled.
1) Use "fitter" tracks to span the gap between track on each section. This allows for MINOR misalignments between the sections without derailing every train passing over it. Fitter tracks can be 9" pieces of sectional track, or something smaller.
2) Run the rails to the edge of the section/module. The rails butt against each other when the sections are put together. This requires more accurate track work, but generally looks better. You do have to be more careful when assembling, disassembling, and transporting the sections to avoid snagging the rail ends and causing them to come unfastened from the ties.
lessons learned from being with the Near Sighted Narrow Gaugers
HOn3 modular railroading
Fred W
First of all, get the book Armstrong's Track Planning for Realistic Operation You have high ambitions, as do we all, but the common mistake is too squeeze too much in the available ares.
Second, there is a free arcticle somewhere on the MR site, where they build bench work out of 1/2" (or maybe its 3/8) plywood and foam. I put 1/4 luan under mine because it would be easier to attach tortises and I couldn't quite believe 2" foam was strong enough. The luan was also cut scraps that Home Depot gave me for free. The legs are also made out of plywood and attached with wingnuts.
My goal is to have a layout I can move to a new house. For now it's and L shape.
Today MRH sent me a link to video of a mobile layout that features the Bronx terminal (imagine a roundhouse style warehouse with dual cirumferential tracks and a quadruple diamond. Google Tim Warris Bronx Terminal. The guy displays it at shows, and the main part is longer than 4' This layout has as complicated switching as anyone might have and 4' is too short in HO to pack in a lot of turnouts.
This Bronx layout goes together with, I'm not sure what to call them, alignment bars? It is a brick outhouse. MR also has a video using a male/female metal dowel and receptical to align modules. Someone else may be able to link on what these parts are or the video. Obviously reconnecting your modules in proper alignment is essential.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I have to correct myself. The benchwork was plywood but the subroadbed was also cookie cutter plywood. http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/get-started/2011/11/benchwork-for-your-model-railroad
I've been looking at some benchwork plans and trying to figure out what I can do that will be cheap, but sturdy enough to hold my layout. I have kind of narrowed it down to using the wing nuts to hold each of the pieces together, primarily the legs. The top of the benchwork will likely be some sort of bracing that I can drop the foam into and easily be able to remove when needed. The top of the benchwork will be one solid structure made out of plywood (likely 1"x4" that is a 1/2" thick minimum. Four legs will be used with braces between each end and along each side (wing nuts will be used to attach all of these together as well as to the base.
Now, with the basic benchwork idea in place, I can add and tweak as needed. My hope is that I'll be able to find some wood for cheap at the big box stores or from my a relative.
I really like the idea of an ISL for my first layout. The one piece that I'd love to has to be able to run a train that would be of comparable length for a local train that would be seen entering an industrial area. What I envision is an "L" shape layout that is 2' wide all the way around. I'd like to make it a bit wider, but the room might be hard to get right away. I could potentially find enough room to have each part of the "L" be 6' in length by 2' wide. Would it be logistical to have two sections (the bottom and the tall sides) each be ISL type and an area in the middle where I could do a small "country" scene that shows some separation between the two switching areas? This would have a road going over the tracks and maybe a small building of some kind (country bar?).
My "dream" starter layout has changed some, but I hope to still incorporate some of what I initially wanted. I like the idea of an ISL because I can still have a lot of industry in a small area. I can work on learning how to do the scenery and detail the buildings.
Most layouts have a season that is being modeled, is it common to have a winter layout or that late fall/first snow or late spring/snow is melting type?
jk10Would it be logistical to have two sections (the bottom and the tall sides) each be ISL type and an area in the middle where I could do a small "country" scene that shows some separation between the two switching areas?
6 feet is used up much more quickly than you like in HO (if you choose fair-sized industries). And if you want significant switching activity on each leg, it's often helpful to let the central runaround extend around the corner.
For perspective on what can fit, here's an HO 5’X7’ L-shaped switching layout with 2-foot-wide shelves.
This was meant for a small number of cars (fewer than the available industry spots). For a lot of cars, it would be better to extend the layout toward the bottom left to give room for a longer lead (this could be removable).
The industries on this layout need room-to-roll for realism in bulk grain loading, other industry types could be a little more efficient.
A transition scenic area between the two wings is a nice idea, but may not leave enough space for the amount of switching that you would like – it’s all trade-offs!
Good luck with your layout.
Byron
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Thank you for sharing the layout design! That's exactly what I was looking for in a plan. There seems to be enough industry for a lot of switching. I like how the industries can be altered to fit more or less if desired. Having a mainline for that through train is ideal, too.
Thank you for sharing!
Grasshopper.
The answer is the journey.
And/or 14k.
Best of luck,
Ed
For a portable layout that will have to be stored, the smaller the footprint the better. 12" deep scenes are easier to handle than 18" deep scenes. 18" scenes are easier than 24".
Also large buildings and tall scenery are problematic when storing stuff.
If the only requirement for the room is that you can remove the pieces and the walls don't have to be pristine, think about mounting some of those slotted shelf brackets on the walls and then use metal shelf brackets that hook into the wall brackets to hold up the layout. 2" foam 12-16" deep and edged with 1/4" plywood on the sides and 1x4 on the ends would be very light and portable. When it comes time to convert the room, remove the layout, remove the shelf brackets and the only thing left is the wall brackets every 16-24".
PS : My father-in-law told me that the husband is the head of the household and the wife is the neck. And the head goes whichever way the neck turns it.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
I really like the idea of using the brackets and shelves. Much cheaper than all the lumber that would be needed. However, the room will eventually become a child's room, and both of us would like to keep the walls "clean" for when that time comes. The previous owners did enough damage hanging pictures/shelves on the walls and a poor job patching/fixing.
While the 12"-18" wide scenes are nice, the ability to have 24" of space to have more track and buildings is appealing. Background buildings could be used to save some space, I would imagine?
I'm hoping that after our wedding in a few weeks, Fall yard projects are completed, and after our Fall break from school I can start on the plans and building. My hope is to get my dad down here to help with some of the building.
Adding another thing to my to-do list for planning of the benchwork; how is it recommended to add a background and what height is recommended for a ISL layout? What material is best for the background?
Looking at what I have for plans, I am going to use 1" thick wood to make the box where I will set the foam. This means there will be a gap between the foam and any background I add to the layout?
Is it recommended to paint all of the foam and wood of the benchwork? I imagine green, tan, or brown are popular colors? any recommendations for this aspect of the project?