Soon to be Layout in a Garage

[hon30critter]

Don't underestimate the temperature and dust control abilities of decent quality insulated garage doors.

We have a 2 1/2 car garage which is fully drywalled and insulated, with bedrooms above. Last year we replaced our original single skin uninsulated steel doors with 2" thick foam core insulated steel doors. In the summer the old doors got hotter than Hades with the sun on them in the morning, with the result that the garage heated up pretty badly too. The new doors barely get warm to the touch even on a hot summer day with full sun. In fact, much to my suprise and pleasure, the garage stays comfortably cool even during heat spells if the doors are kept shut.

Last winter we went from having snow drifts on the garage floor because of the poor fitting old doors to no snow even during the worst winter storms. The garage stayed comfortable enough that I could work in shirt sleeves when it was well below freezing outside. Mind you, the cold doesn't bother me. Others might not be as comfortable in the same conditions.

Part of the issue is good quality properly installed weatherstripping. Our doors have double vane rubber weatherstrip which stays flexible in the cold. The installer also did a great job of trimming it tight into the corners. If you experience cold weather, stay away from vinyl weatherstrip. It loses its flexiblity in the cold.

I don't anticipate any problems temperature wise when the layout is up and running. I will put a separate circuit into the garage for a space heater. That will likely come into use as I get older.

FYI, we are just north of Toronto. Typical temperatures range from the mid 90s F in summer to -10 F in the winter with occasional dips into the -40s in January and February.

Dave

[brakeman618]

Thanks again for all the suggestions. Maybe I'll just keep the family buggy out of the garage and section it off.

[mobilman44]

Hi,

No revelation here, just a confirmation that prepping the area will go a long way in you having a successful layout experience.  I would insulate the walls, and close off the area if possible.  Floor covering of tile or linoleum covered with a carpet remnant will surely help your feet, and keep down the concrete dust.

[HO-Velo]

Any improvements that fight dirt is a big plus for those of us stuck with sharing our garage layout space with the family buggy.

Insulated walls and ceilings are good dirt fighters and also add to the creature comfort, so too insulated and rubber sealed sectional garage doors.  Epoxy coating a concrete floor is a good one too.

I preferred a shadow box style of layout and added a ceiling to the valances for double overhead dirt protection.  While all these improvements greatly mitiagated the dirt problem and certainly increased comfort there's no way to stop the flow of dirt when that big door opens and the dirty buggy comes in.

Have been kicking around the idea of hanging some sort of curtain from the valance to cover the face of the layout opening when it's not in use.  But don't like the idea of having something that hampers access to the layout when it's time to play with the trains.

Good luck in your garage war against dirt, Peter

 

[Phoebe Vet]

brakeman618

Yep. The garage will be the only place for the railroad.

My 16x20 around the walls railroad is in my two car garage.  The space is insulated, but neither heated nor cooled.  When I am present I use two large fans or a kerosene space heater when required, which isn't often.  I have no temperature related problems.  My cars live in the driveway.

Insulate and finish the walls and ceiling.  Seal any gaps around the garage doors.  Paint or apply the background before you do the bench work, it will be easier to work on the walls.

[brakeman618]

Yep. The garage will be the only place for the railroad. I think I may also need to consider storage of sensitive equipment such as the loco and cars, scenery stuff, etc in the house. At least for now. It will take time but I've been in the hobby since I've been a teenager (off and on). I anticipate many years ahead.

[tgindy]

As to garage door winter dilemma north of the Mason-Dixon line...

Perhaps consider not only a portable electric shop heater (to take-the-chill-off), but also a portable radiator on rollers (for maintaining while-in-the-garage heating).  These need separate electric (breaker) circuits, and separate from the layout's electric (breaker) line.

Ask anyone about "Jack Frost" -- Who has fully-insulated and ceiling-finished their garage with bedrooms on the next floor above the 2-car garage despite indoor-heating like baseboard heat.

[RR_Mel]

Rio Grande is correct about environmental control!  You need to keep the temperature swing below 45° to prevent expansion contraction problems.  Before I insolated my garage I had to replace 7 sections of Atlas flex track.  The temperature swing in our garage averaged 70°+ before insulation.

 

I had soldered the joiners in my mountains to prevent electrical problems.  The unsoldered joiner track did OK but when the track expanded under the heat the rails broke away from the Atlas plastic spikes because of the soldered joiners.

 

The track in my mountains looked worse than the SP tracks through the Tehachapi’s after the 1952 earthquake.

 

 

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

[riogrande5761]

m sharp

I had a garage layout in a similar climate...NW Indiana, and it was not fun many days.  The first year we had a little family of mice that contaminated track, etc.  Once I got rid of them, I tried to keep them out with traps and poison.  That seemed to work and I didn't have them for years, or at least I didn't see them or their handywork.

Winter is brutal, unless you are insulated and heated.  Summer better, but 90s and humid is not fun either.  I came to about 70% complete on the layout before my wife felt sorry for me and invited me indoors (the kids got older and moved out).  

I think I solved the dust problem by using hardboard removeable panels attached to the facia with precisely cut 1" pink foam baord covers simply laid atop the layout (leaning up against the garage wall at about a 25 degree angle, sloping down from back to front and held in place by simple friction from the hardboard edges).  

If I was to go back to the garage, I would isolate the layout portion, insulate and install a room AC, and use a portable heater or even run the gas line to the garage for heat.  The weather in the Midwest is a very compromising factor to consider, as you are aware. 

Good luck with your layout and keep us updated.

Mike

I built my first layout was in a garage in Bloomington Indiana and while I was only there a few years during graduate school and never had a chance to scenic the layout, the weather extremes were brutal - as you noted, bitter cold in winter reaching 0 F and hot/humid in the summer in the 90's.  I had some major track expansion/contraction problems especially and I wouldn't want to put my Tangent, Genesis and Exactrail equipment through those extremes.  Insulation and environment control would be an absoute necessity for me to consider a grarage layout ever again.  Thats the thing about ever moving to California since basements are rare as hens teeth there.

[Anonymous]

Just food for thought!

As you can see from the comments to your post, building a layout in a garage requires some upfront investment in labor and funds.

Are you sure this is the only option for you to build a layout?

[brakeman618]

Havent thought of a heat supply yet but probably good to think ahead. I am liking ideas and suggestions made here so far.

[m sharp]

I had a garage layout in a similar climate...NW Indiana, and it was not fun many days.  The first year we had a little family of mice that contaminated track, etc.  Once I got rid of them, I tried to keep them out with traps and poison.  That seemed to work and I didn't have them for years, or at least I didn't see them or their handywork.

Winter is brutal, unless you are insulated and heated.  Summer better, but 90s and humid is not fun either.  I came to about 70% complete on the layout before my wife felt sorry for me and invited me indoors (the kids got older and moved out).  

I think I solved the dust problem by using hardboard removeable panels attached to the facia with precisely cut 1" pink foam baord covers simply laid atop the layout (leaning up against the garage wall at about a 25 degree angle, sloping down from back to front and held in place by simple friction from the hardboard edges).  

If I was to go back to the garage, I would isolate the layout portion, insulate and install a room AC, and use a portable heater or even run the gas line to the garage for heat.  The weather in the Midwest is a very compromising factor to consider, as you are aware. 

Good luck with your layout and keep us updated.

Mike

[cowman]

You say you have a 2.5 car garage, but only mention one vehicle.  How about making a 1.5 car garage layout and leave the other bay for the vehicle.  You could have a staging area in the garage if it would not interfear with parking.  A small hole would  not let much heat excape, especially if you had something to block the hole when not running trains.

Build a wall, install ceiling, insulate ceiling, all walls and door.

Second option would be to put a ceiling in and insulate the entire garage, then run a narrow shelf along the outer wall of the "winter" bay.  Could be a branch line or end in a staging area. 

I would recommend putting a cement sealer on the floor, regardless of what type of surface you may cover it with.  It was recommended for my walk in cellar and it does help.  I should reseal it as it has been left bare.  If it were covered with tile, rug or whatever, it shouldn't need resealing.

What is your heat scource?

Good luck,

Richard

[brakeman618]

Good point and thanks for this and all the comments!

[SWFX]

To help with the dust and protect the layout you may want to consider plastic tarps over the layout when not in use. Cheap shower curtains from Walmart or painters guards from the Home Depot that you can lay over top.

[brakeman618]

All good points and notes have been taken in my head for now. Locale of garage: South of Milwaukee, Wisconsin and North of Illinois. Humidity seems to be around 50% or more. I have yet to install casters but will probably go that way eventually.

[RR_Mel]

Seeing tgindy’s post jogged my brain, I forgot to say I also insolated the metal garage door with ¾” thick Blue Foam board, the foam board is light enough that I didn’t even have to adjust the door lift spring.

 

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

[tgindy]

Other than the garage door always being an "insulation air-sieve" during fall - winter - spring -- The ceiling should be finished to eliminate hard-to-see "dirty-rain" and create a shadowless source of layout lighting with dimmers for more complete lighting.

[RR_Mel]

OK here goes; I’ve always had my layouts in a garage because we had 7 rug rats.  My first was a standard John Allen’s 1^st G&D on a 4’x8’ sheet of ¾” plywood.

 

This is a CAD drawing of my current (3^rd) and it’s been 28 years in the making.

 

 

OK garage life on a layout and the layout builder:

 

1^st and foremost is ambient temperature and humidity control year round!

 

I live in central California where the temps range from 25° to 115° in an un-insolated non temperature controlled garage, that’s a No No for both the layout and builder.  I had additional R30 insulation installed in the roof above the ceiling, yes ceiling, my garage was fully finished when we moved in.  Before the insulation the garage would run from 30° in the winter to 110°++ in the summer.  After the insulation the garage runs from about 52° in the winter to 96° in the summer without any help.

 

The humidity has dropped over the years here so an evaporative cooler works very good but the humidity will go up considerably, the Bakersfield summer humidity starts out at about 32% early AM to under 10% by mid afternoon.  With the cooler on the humidity in the garage has been as high as 60%, the norm is mid to upper 30%.

 

2^nd is the floor, I have 2’ carpet squares and they work out great, they help temperature control, dust control and are easer on the feet than concrete.  If you are clumsy like me and have a bad case of the dropsy’s they can be picked up and washed in a sink.

 

I built my layout on casters so it can be moved, I even roll it out onto the driveway to give me access to clean the garage.  The neighborhood kids (and their dads) are like magnets when it’s in the driveway.

 

I didn’t build walls or dividers because the car doesn’t really care if it shares the garage with my layout.  We don’t have any idea about bad weather conditions on bringing a car inside with the layout.  Our worst bad weather here comes from 12” rain storms, that’s one drop every 12” about three or four time each year.

 

My worst problem is nasty dust!!!!  I have sealed the garage door as best as I can and it still gets in.  Our dust is a very dark brown and comes from the Bay Area in the form of SMOG, there is a 24/7 5 to 8 MPH breeze from the Bay Area.  The SMOG dries and falls causing a dirty layer of acidy dirt 24/7.  Bakersfield leads the nation with worst air 360 days per year.  I picked up a good idea from another forum to use a 20” box fan with a furnace filter on both input and output and that does trap a lot of the dirty brown crap.

 

Happy Garage Layout Buliding!     

 

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

[Anonymous]

Quite a number of views, but only 1 answer?

I am not an expert in building a layout in a garage, as I don´t have one. However, people have built layouts in garages and there are a number of members in this forum being able to give you qualified advice.

Nevertheless, there are a few points which I think you need to consider:

• Temperature: You don´t state, in which climate you live, but heat as well as cold can be a tremendous problem for a layout. Wood expands and shrinks with changes in temperature, as well as the tracks do. This could cause the track to warp or get misaligned.
• Humidity: If you live in a rather humid climate, you need to be able to control the humidity, which can cause rot and rust.
• Dust: Dust is an enemy to all mechanics in and on your layout. An excess amount of dust can ruin the drives of your locos. Aside from that, a dust covered layout is not a nice sight.
• Creature comfort: You need to feel well when building the layout. Working on your layout is no fun if it is either too hot or too cold.
• Cars: You´d be surprised to see how much heat a car radiates after a trip. Make sure the layout is in a safe distance from that heat.

Having the above points in mind, you may have to prepare your garage accordingly before you build a layout in it.

[TrainSupport]

After you build a layout in garage. Then the winter arrives, you want to park a van into the garage... so where will the layout you put? There is troublesome if you unpack the layout.

How tall is your garage? And how tall is your van?

If your garage is enough tall, maybe you can create new storey in your garage. A van parked in the lower floor. The layout placed on the upper floor. The upper floor can be made of wood.

Or you can expand your garage become larger.

[brakeman618]

I could soon find myself with an empty 2.5 car garage. Think clean canvas as far as artistry analogies go, bare studs, etc. I have a few modules I have built up over the years and plan to fit them in. Total length is 15 feet by 3 feet if in a straight line. Plan to fit things in a corner with a corner addition. Open to expansion of course. I've never built a layout in a garage so ideas and advice are welcome. Carpet squares for the floor? Any divider suggestions? Will want to park the van in the garage in winter. Concerns: cleanliness of layout.