riogrande5761 selector Yikes, Rob! I'm glad I buy Peco Streamline Code 83 Insulfrog turnouts exclusively. About the only thing that can go wrong with my sampling of them (about 20 turnouts at this point), is that the over-centre spring corrodes with carelessness and needs to be replaced. -Crandell
selector Yikes, Rob! I'm glad I buy Peco Streamline Code 83 Insulfrog turnouts exclusively. About the only thing that can go wrong with my sampling of them (about 20 turnouts at this point), is that the over-centre spring corrodes with carelessness and needs to be replaced. -Crandell
Yikes, Rob! I'm glad I buy Peco Streamline Code 83 Insulfrog turnouts exclusively. About the only thing that can go wrong with my sampling of them (about 20 turnouts at this point), is that the over-centre spring corrodes with carelessness and needs to be replaced.
-Crandell
To add to that, tuning an Atlas 83 turnout takes only a few minutes, and the result is perfectly reliable. I will gladly trade the extra work for the cost differential. I got nearly a whole major yard worth of Atlas 83 turnouts for extra cheap thanks to a friend who was changing his layout to code 70 track. They've been in place and performing great for years, so I have no reason to regret using them.
Rob Spangler
riogrande5761 selector wp8thsub kasskaboose Anything else, besides checking gauge and elevation, to ensure smooth operaitons? Quite a bit, depending on the turnout. Since you mentioned Atlas 83: Use a flat mill file to get the top of the frog casting flush with the surrounding rails. File the tops of the point rails flush with the closure rails. Use a knife or small files to remove any plastic that oozed around the frog casting into the flangeways. Ensure the running surface of the rails makes a smooth transition to the frog. Before installing the turnout, sight down the rails between the points and the frog. Often the tie strip will be crooked, and the turnout will have a curve where it shouldn't. Use a razor saw or motor tool to remove material from the tie strip under the rails through this area as needed (which turns this part of the turnout into flex track). Carefully straighten the ties and rails. Yikes, Rob! I'm glad I buy Peco Streamline Code 83 Insulfrog turnouts exclusively. About the only thing that can go wrong with my sampling of them (about 20 turnouts at this point), is that the over-centre spring corrodes with carelessness and needs to be replaced. -Crandell Crandell, have you compared the prices of the Peco Code 83 turnouts to Atlas Code 83? The discount price for the Peco is about $26 vs. Atlas $14. You say you get what you pay for? Ok sure. But not everyone can afford a Lexus, and not everyone can afford a yard full of Peco code 83 at nearly double to cost. For what you pay, the newer Atlas code 83 that I've been buying have generally been pretty good. Maybe when I'm in better shap financially and am ready to start another layout in a few years, I may go with the "Cadillac" Peco turnouts, but for now, I'm still using mostly lower cost Atlas. The older Atlas turnouts seem to need the most tuning to work better but the newer ones seemt be improved.
selector wp8thsub kasskaboose Anything else, besides checking gauge and elevation, to ensure smooth operaitons? Quite a bit, depending on the turnout. Since you mentioned Atlas 83: Use a flat mill file to get the top of the frog casting flush with the surrounding rails. File the tops of the point rails flush with the closure rails. Use a knife or small files to remove any plastic that oozed around the frog casting into the flangeways. Ensure the running surface of the rails makes a smooth transition to the frog. Before installing the turnout, sight down the rails between the points and the frog. Often the tie strip will be crooked, and the turnout will have a curve where it shouldn't. Use a razor saw or motor tool to remove material from the tie strip under the rails through this area as needed (which turns this part of the turnout into flex track). Carefully straighten the ties and rails. Yikes, Rob! I'm glad I buy Peco Streamline Code 83 Insulfrog turnouts exclusively. About the only thing that can go wrong with my sampling of them (about 20 turnouts at this point), is that the over-centre spring corrodes with carelessness and needs to be replaced. -Crandell
wp8thsub kasskaboose Anything else, besides checking gauge and elevation, to ensure smooth operaitons? Quite a bit, depending on the turnout. Since you mentioned Atlas 83: Use a flat mill file to get the top of the frog casting flush with the surrounding rails. File the tops of the point rails flush with the closure rails. Use a knife or small files to remove any plastic that oozed around the frog casting into the flangeways. Ensure the running surface of the rails makes a smooth transition to the frog. Before installing the turnout, sight down the rails between the points and the frog. Often the tie strip will be crooked, and the turnout will have a curve where it shouldn't. Use a razor saw or motor tool to remove material from the tie strip under the rails through this area as needed (which turns this part of the turnout into flex track). Carefully straighten the ties and rails.
kasskaboose Anything else, besides checking gauge and elevation, to ensure smooth operaitons?
Quite a bit, depending on the turnout. Since you mentioned Atlas 83:
Crandell, have you compared the prices of the Peco Code 83 turnouts to Atlas Code 83? The discount price for the Peco is about $26 vs. Atlas $14. You say you get what you pay for? Ok sure. But not everyone can afford a Lexus, and not everyone can afford a yard full of Peco code 83 at nearly double to cost.
For what you pay, the newer Atlas code 83 that I've been buying have generally been pretty good. Maybe when I'm in better shap financially and am ready to start another layout in a few years, I may go with the "Cadillac" Peco turnouts, but for now, I'm still using mostly lower cost Atlas. The older Atlas turnouts seem to need the most tuning to work better but the newer ones seemt be improved.
Rio: Here, here! Atlas makes very reputable products at low prices. I like their products and so do many, many others. Great and good Candell can afford $26 turnouts and likely other high end stuff. I'm always looking out for bargains without creating a layout thrown together with sub-par products--Atlas turnouts are not that!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Lone Wolf and Santa Fe Medina1128 I read a tip where a modeler slides a thin strip of styrene under the point rails, then affixes them in place. It works in cases where you don't have a switch machine or manual throw to hold them in place by creating just a slight amount of drag. I've done using window glazing that comes in kits. Once the ties are painted they're almost impossible to detect. What I do is just put a small piece of styrene as a shim under the tie which slides. Friction holds the shim and the turnout in place. j........
Medina1128 I read a tip where a modeler slides a thin strip of styrene under the point rails, then affixes them in place. It works in cases where you don't have a switch machine or manual throw to hold them in place by creating just a slight amount of drag. I've done using window glazing that comes in kits. Once the ties are painted they're almost impossible to detect.
I read a tip where a modeler slides a thin strip of styrene under the point rails, then affixes them in place. It works in cases where you don't have a switch machine or manual throw to hold them in place by creating just a slight amount of drag. I've done using window glazing that comes in kits. Once the ties are painted they're almost impossible to detect.
What I do is just put a small piece of styrene as a shim under the tie which slides. Friction holds the shim and the turnout in place.
j........
Ditto. I operate all of my turnouts manually, even it they are somewhat remote and I have to use a 1/4" wooden dowel rod actuator. I still use most of my Fast Tracks hand-made Code 100 #8 turnouts when I can fit them into my track plans. Sometimes, all it takes is one or two thicknesses of the clear plastic packaging that one must cut with a cutter to get at items purchased at Home Depot or wherever slid under the throwbar. It is only apparent if I look for it, but it works all the time.
kasskaboose Long shirt pins pushed down into the track hold the points in place. Eventually, I plan on putting in Tortoise Switch Macines.
Once you get that finished your problems should be minimized greatly. Alternately if you can reach the turnouts and you don't mind oversized items, a Caboose Industries ground throw would do wonders for very little cost.
kasskabooseGood to know that turnouts and crossings require some some fixing.
I've had to do that sort of thing to a few turnouts, but the percentage is very small, and most of my problems have been with Atlas snap-switches. If you find yourself tweaking a lot of turnouts, I'm going to suggest that you have other tracklaying issues, and you're making up for them by "fixing" the turnout.
Track width gauges, curviture gauges, levels and straightedges will often find unsuspected problems that begin a foot or more before you even get to the turnout. The turnout, of course, gets the blame because that's where the wheels actually come off the track, but if a wheel is riding up over the railhead, it probable started climbing up some ways back.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
The perfect turnout has all rails in gauge and level, positively locked points and no place where a misguided flange might find a toehold to climb over a rail. Judging by the comments, the various commercial products tend to fall short, but can (usually) be corrected by judicious tweaking.
On my layout, tweaking a turnout is done during construction and will be finished before the MOW Superintendent signs off on the installation. Turnouts on the Chrysanthemum Empire have to be within handshake range of perfect, because the Super (watashi) builds them from raw rail, and holds them to dimensional tolerance no Chinese factory has ever achieved. If they aren't that good they are adjusted until they pass - even if that means rebuilding from the roadbed up.
Proof of claim. In ten years of operation there have only been two derailments attributed to turnouts. One was the result of missing a near-invisible speck of solder on a railhead. The other was traced to cars too light to spread the sprung point of a spring switch. Both problems have been resolved.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with hand-laid specialwork)
kasskabooseAnything else, besides checking gauge and elevation, to ensure smooth operaitons?
The Irish were with my yesterday because I didn't experience issues with the turnout. Long shirt pins pushed down into the track hold the points in place. Eventually, I plan on putting in Tortoise Switch Macines.
Good to know that turnouts and crossings require some some fixing. Filing them a bit make sense. Anything else, besides checking gauge and elevation, to ensure smooth operaitons?
BroadwayLion A picked Switch is when a train opens the points on its own. You split the switch when the lead truck goes one way and the rear truck goes the other way. Usually that happens when someone throws the switch under the train. ROAR
A picked Switch is when a train opens the points on its own.
You split the switch when the lead truck goes one way and the rear truck goes the other way. Usually that happens when someone throws the switch under the train.
ROAR
Right. I have this problem on switches which I haven't yet installed caboose ground throws, which firmly hold the rail in place. Not all the time, but sometimes the rail vibrates enough to cause a slight gap and then the wheels go straight instead of taking the turnout.
I read a tip where a modeler slides a thin strip of styrene under the point rails, then affixes them in place. It works in cases where you don't have a switch machine or manual throw to hold them in place by creating just a slight amount of drag. I've done itusing window glazing that comes in kits. Once the ties are painted they're almost impossible to detect.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Get Yourself a set of Jeweler's needle files, like K & S #430 and slightly file both points right where they touch the stock rails with the half moon shaped file....ideally, the tip of the point should be a little lower than the stock rails and not a blunt end, but a little rounded. Also make sure that if they are riveted to the drawbar, that there is not alot of movement....if there is...a little bit of CA Medium should fix that. That should end any wheel from hanging up.
Files:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/search?quick=370-430&x=12&y=10
Take Care!
Frank
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
What are you using to hold the point in place? Unless you have a ground throw, switch machine, or one of the Atlas throws in place, you're going to have this problem constantly. Turnouts need some kind of mechanism to keep the points from moving unless you want them to, and Atlas doesn't build anything like that into the points themselves like Peco and Micro Engineering.
Also, ensure the points fit properly into the stock rails. If there's a gap wheels can go behind the point and derail. Usually Atlas points can be bent to fit flush with the stock rail and eliminate the problem.
You said you checked the wheels for gauge, but did you check the turnout? Even if your wheelsets are in gauge, they won't operate reliably if the turnout isn't.
kasskabooseI've read that turnouts and crossings are prone to derailments.
A properly installed and tuned turnout should be free of derailments. Turnouts and crossings can be problematic for modelers who treat them as "plug and play" devices. Most of them will need some work to resolve minor gauge issues and/or misaligned parts around the points and frogs.
Commercial turnouts area lot like pre-hung doors. Your installation determines everything about how well they work.
As often as not, when trains jump the track at turnouts it's the tracklaying on either side that's the problem. Look for both vertical and horizontal kinks, and slightly different slopes between the lead track and the turnout.
The newer Atlas turnouts are better but the older ones definitely benefited from a bit of fine tuning. I filed a bevel on the stock rail points per an old MR article I had to help ensure the flanges would not hit or pick the point.
I believe "picking the points" describes your problem. Ballast or debris between the stock rail and the point is one cause as are damaged point rails. How did you "adjust" the points?
Are you using turnout machines and if so what kind?
It it just these 2 cars or is every car? What sort of cars are they? Some prototypical wheels may have problems in turnouts.
A NMRA gauge is indespensible because the next question is are the track and trucks in gauge?
Newer Atlas turnouts have the stock rails contoured or inletted so the point rails fit closer. I do not know when they changed the rail contour.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Yesterday, I pushed two cars individually through an Atlas code 83 turnout and notice that they periodically jumped the points--one set of trucks go on one track while the other went on the different track (forgive the poor explantion). In other words, the rolling stock ended up at an angle. How to prevent that? The wheels are in gauge and spin freely. I tried before bed to adjust the switch points and might have resolved the issue b/c the car went through the entire turnout. Perhaps that won't happen when I run the cars with a loco.
I've read that turnouts and crossings are prone to derailments.
Thanks!