You have a lot of space and no one else will claim it, not at least until you clean, insulate and finish it J
Don’t rush with layout plan, it will evolve and take time. Ensure you have room for turnout motors should you decide to install them later.
What I did first is settled on benchwork / framing plan that was driven mainly by the room size. I could not work on benchwork after 9pm due to noise so I had to switch focus and had plenty of time to think about layout plan. It took me almost 2 years to build benchwork and during that time my layout plan kept evolving.
When you plan for benchwork - make sure the height is right for you so you don’t have to bend your back to operate layout and all major areas have easy access (2’ is good, 3’ max). That is perhaps even more important than layout plan for enjoyable construction process, layout operation and will be difficult to change later.
Given that you’ll likely have temperature/humidity swings in your room – keep in mind your benchwork with shrink/expand during the year. Curved track is bit more forgiving for dimensional changes than straight track, so that is something to keep in mind when you design your plan.
Slava
Visit my blog to see progress on my UDTR Model Railroad
http://slavak815.wordpress.com
mbinsewi OK, but, you need to take a close look at what Slava is showing. You need to make the "ladder" track in your yard to be straight, on both ends, like the "real" ones are. Much easier to move cars in the yard. It just means repositioning your turnouts. The way you show it, your yard "ladder" track is a constant "S" curve that will be difficult and non-prototypical to move cars, weather your pushing or pulling. Mike
OK, but, you need to take a close look at what Slava is showing. You need to make the "ladder" track in your yard to be straight, on both ends, like the "real" ones are. Much easier to move cars in the yard. It just means repositioning your turnouts. The way you show it, your yard "ladder" track is a constant "S" curve that will be difficult and non-prototypical to move cars, weather your pushing or pulling.
Mike
FYI, while those pics don't show it, I did take Slava's advice. Thanks Mike and of course Slava for pointing that out.
Chris
Goosetown Let's see if I can post pics with flickr https://flic.kr/p/EphLVw
Let's see if I can post pics with flickr
https://flic.kr/p/EphLVw
After a few days of playing with AnyRail and reading your comments I came up with a couple conclusions. I really want to be as close to Goosetown yard as possible and secondly, the train has to go somewhere and do something.
So I decided to go with a U shaped shelf layout. I can put the Goosetown Yard on the West wall overlooking the Proto as I look out the window.
On the South side of the room, I will use the now defunct Mpls/St. Louis line that use to go through a local quarry (across a swing bridge) and through a rural area to a loop to take the train back into the Goosetown Yard.
https://flic.kr/p/EUre99
On the North side of the room, I still needed a way to turn the train around so instead of the main line going NW, it's going to go to the East. I can still use a couple of the landmarks (Mill, Bridges, etc.) around the bend and then from there it is a free for all. So after looking around the net, I figured I would create an industrial area/switching yard that I could use as a loop to turn the train back around.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/140982781@N04/shares/b1V5J2
There is a couple sections of flex track missing because I came up to the 50 track piece limit on the free trial addition, but that part really doesn't matter at this point until I decide what theme/scenery I will use as a transition between the yards.
What do you think of this idea? The U shape won't waste anymore space due to the room's roof line. The side wall is only 3' tall so for about 8' on each side, it is just wasted space for anyone over the age of 3. The floor is 20'x22' but I will be using just 20'x14' of it because of height restraints.
Ignore the mess, it's finally above freezing here in MN so I can get to work cleaning, insulating, wiring, and finishing. Here is the room:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/140982781@N04/shares/95p83B
I know this is an ambitious plan. Heck, it will take me most of the summer just to get the room ready to build the shelving, but thanks to 1:1 printing I can lay it out and dream, make changes, play with some structures and maybe even find some old broken stock and play on my hands and knees! lol
Edit: I changed the North shelf to bring it out from the wall a foot. This should allow additional height for industrial buildings.
My You Tube
There are a number of different reasons to build model railroad layouts or dioramas. Static replication of a prototype scene at a particular place and time is one (often seen in museum displays). Others want a layout on which to just watch trains run, still others want a layout on which to operate cars purposefully. Or some combination with a mix of these.
You mentioned earlier
GoosetownI have been restoring cars for decades and that is so much simpler than a RR hobby. A restored car is put back to the way it was. If I tried to proto this rail line I would have a 60'-70' long layout not including a return track (loops).
Even here, there are various reasons to work on an older car, depending on the owner’s interest and purpose.
One could restore it as accurately as possible
Or turn it into a drag racer
Or modify it to run a road race through Mexico
Make it into a low-rider
All of these preserve some degree or another of the original form
Or like Boyd Coddington, Sr. did with Billy Gibbons’ “Cadzilla”, one could use the original as an inspiration, but create something totally new.
Different purposes and interests, different builds. Model railroads can be like that, with varying degrees of prototype accuracy (even almost none at all). The reason you build a layout will be your own, but it can help guide how much of the prototype you wish to replicate -- and how accurately.
GoosetownI see yard layouts posted but what do they do besides shuffle cars at a 1/3 (at best) scale of what it actually is.
One concept is called “selective compression” – reducing elements in size to fit the available space. In the case of a yard, perhaps the real thing handled 80-car-long trains. But one might be happy with the compromise of 20-car-long trains. In that case, the smaller yard can still work like the real thing in terms of making-up and tearing-down trains or providing a base for serving local industries – just in a smaller scope than the real thing.
In real life, those trains in the yard annoying the neighbors in your area are probably setting up cars to travel to-and-from other industries that are in adjoining locations.
Sometimes adjusting the time period slightly makes a difference. In the case of New Ulm, only a modest turn of the “wayback” dial to 9/2011 on Google Earth shows a number of cars placed at the various industries. There even seems to be a set of private locomotives on-hand to work the unusual track arrangement at the grain elevator.
So in the space you have in N scale, there are a number of different (and interesting) alternatives. To me, seeking to replicate the area cosmetically without running trains purposefully wouldn’t be that much fun, but a few others enjoy the structure-building and scenery so much that they don’t care if they ever run a train. To each his or her own.
For myself, I’d probably use the industries of 2011 or a little earlier to create the operating interest of switching them from cars set out (and later picked up) by through trains from staging. That’s a scenario I really enjoy. For others, it might be watching a parade of trains pass through from staging.
Good luck with your layout.
Byron
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
cuyama [I'm not able to read all the small labels, so I'm not sure what industries are served by some of the spurs] In the shelf version, where will the trains come “from” and depart “to”? Byron
[I'm not able to read all the small labels, so I'm not sure what industries are served by some of the spurs]
In the shelf version, where will the trains come “from” and depart “to”?
I didn't split those sentences up properly but you will get the idea.
Industries active: NONE. New Ulm is a rail yard now. They (now CP on UP rails from what I understand) shuffle cars around all day and all night from what I LITTERLY HEAR all day and all night.
Second quote. You are right. Where am I going to go? While it may be simplier for me to build, it will just end up as a decorama wont it?
Never thought of that. I see yard layouts posted but what do they do besides shuffle cars at a 1/3 (at best) scale of what it actually is.
I repeat... hmmm
Maybe I should just keep watching my 4'x4' HO circle layout I put under the Christmas tree.
SlavaK815 compare these two designs, the second one gives you more room and fewer & wider S curves - http://slavak815.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/yard-ledder.jpg also if you later decide to install magnets for de-coupling cars on your yard - they work on straight track and not so well on curves. Slava
compare these two designs, the second one gives you more room and fewer & wider S curves -
http://slavak815.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/yard-ledder.jpg
also if you later decide to install magnets for de-coupling cars on your yard - they work on straight track and not so well on curves.
I agree but if I am trying to compress as much of the proto I can, it just isn't realistic. (in all honesty, I have talked to a couple of the local RR employees and they don't like the yard to start with)
What to do. What to do.
On a shelf layout, would anyone use magnetic uncouplers and powered switches? I am going to operate with DCC, but if I am just building a 24" deep shelf layout I am sure I can use manual throws and a toothpick to uncouple cars.
Or am I wrong?
A lot depends on what you are primarily trying to accomplish. If it’s mainly to be an accurate “kinetic diorama” of the area, that would argue for one approach. But if you’d like to wring as much operating enjoyment out of each turnout as possible, it might be better to take some liberties with the exact arrangement of the real location, as Dave H. outlined.
Note that some of your spurs are somewhat short in the clear, so they would handle a small number of cars. This can be one of the challenges in scaling real places down by a consistent ratio. It’s often better to modulate the degree of compression for model and operating purposes. [I'm not able to read all the small labels, so I'm not sure what industries are served by some of the spurs]
So if you think you might be interested in purposeful operations down the road, that might be something to address. The longer sidings might be a bit out-of-balance with the number of cars that could be spotted.
If you are concerned about the cost of turnouts and track, other arrangements which depart somewhat from the real place offer as much operating potential with fewer turnouts. For example, the crossover at the left center really is not operationally critical.
Have I mentiones I love ANYRAIL?
Wipped this up. Kinda sorta what I have in mind for a wall to wall shelf layout:
Focused on the rails I see and the businesses that stand out. Small enough for me to get it done too! Except the switches are going to cost some coin. Chris
Focused on the rails I see and the businesses that stand out.
Small enough for me to get it done too! Except the switches are going to cost some coin.
In my experience, planning beyond a certain point is a waste of time. Inevitably, new ideas will pop up while building the layout, or while testing it out in a 'real world' situation (running trains). "Hey, if I move this turnout 6" this way, it makes switching this other track a lot easier". Start building - it's better to work things out as you go along than to do nothing due to 'Analysis Paralysis'!!
Not sure why the text is a link. Sorry. I don't know what I am doing I guess
Let's see if I can explain what I am trying to do with a picture.
In the center of this google earth screenshot is my new garage ( house too but for this discussion that is irrelevent. The red line is the line I am trying to compress down to about a 14' long layout. If you have google earth (and I don't know why you wouldn't), use the coordinates on the bottom and tour the Goosetown neighborhood. To the west (top of the picture) is the line going through New Ulm MN. Since I am now living a block away from it, I figure I would use it as my insperation for a layout. The only reason I went with a 36" deep layout was so the radius' for the oval was smooth. It really has nothing to do with anything else. In fact as I was looking for structures and such, I have this sinking feeling that the landscaping alone will take away all my fun money... hmmm Maybe I should just scrap the idea of making this a running train layout and just do it as a shelf layout? I could then do something smaller and less proto as a layout to watch the choo choo's go around and around. I have been restoring cars for decades and that is so much simpler than a RR hobby. A restored car is put back to the way it was. If I tried to proto this rail line I would have a 60'-70' long layout not including a return track (loops). Thanks again for all the help!Chris
In the center of this google earth screenshot is my new garage ( house too but for this discussion that is irrelevent. The red line is the line I am trying to compress down to about a 14' long layout. If you have google earth (and I don't know why you wouldn't), use the coordinates on the bottom and tour the Goosetown neighborhood. To the west (top of the picture) is the line going through New Ulm MN. Since I am now living a block away from it, I figure I would use it as my insperation for a layout.
The only reason I went with a 36" deep layout was so the radius' for the oval was smooth. It really has nothing to do with anything else. In fact as I was looking for structures and such, I have this sinking feeling that the landscaping alone will take away all my fun money... hmmm
Maybe I should just scrap the idea of making this a running train layout and just do it as a shelf layout? I could then do something smaller and less proto as a layout to watch the choo choo's go around and around.
I have been restoring cars for decades and that is so much simpler than a RR hobby. A restored car is put back to the way it was. If I tried to proto this rail line I would have a 60'-70' long layout not including a return track (loops).
Thanks again for all the help!Chris
I would suggest several changes.
Having all the tracks exactly parallel to the edges of the table is not very scenic. Even shifing the whole thing at a slight angle will help the scenic possibilities.
Having all the tracks on both sides with the siding from curve to curve won't help operations. If you are going to do that just break down and double track the whole thing. Other wise make the siding on the town side shorter so a train making a runaround or going back in to switch industries doesn't have to pull all the way into the staging yard to shove back.
Put a view block down the middle. Don't know how high on what relative position you will be at with regard to your layout, but a view block down the middle so it separates the staging yard from the visible area into two distinct scenes will be better than an obvious loop with a town plopped in the middle.
Having a back drop allows some creative things like inductries that wouldn't be next to each other being on opposite sides of the back drop and so miles apart. You could put a cement dealer on one side and a quarry on the other and have a loads in-empties out industry. You could put a hillside on the staging side about 2-3 in high and then an industry on the town side with a spur going between buildings or into a building, but actually through the backdrop and under the scenery on the other side.
Alternatively if you had a back drop it doesn't ahve to be straight. You could make the staging yard a shallow V coming about halfway across the layout, then put a low back drop on either side, that would allow another industrial area where the middle of the yard is now.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
SlavaK815 Just a suggestion - I've designed my layout using AnyRail software, then I exported my layout and loaded it into TrainPlayer application. TrainPlayer lets you run trains on PC on your layour and you'll quickly see if you really like it or want to change a thing or two, then you can update your layout and try again. That approach worked great for me. http://www.anyrail.com/http://www.trainplayer.com/ Slava
Just a suggestion - I've designed my layout using AnyRail software, then I exported my layout and loaded it into TrainPlayer application. TrainPlayer lets you run trains on PC on your layour and you'll quickly see if you really like it or want to change a thing or two, then you can update your layout and try again. That approach worked great for me.
http://www.anyrail.com/http://www.trainplayer.com/
Thanks for that suggestion. I downloaded it and found it to be easier than navigating some forums! Awesome. Then I hit the 50 track limit....
So I guess I need to spend some money to upgrade. But it is going to be worth it!!!!
So much easier than Atlas or XTrackCAD IMHO. But not trying to be a salesman.
Today I have been playing with XTrack because while I like the Atlas program for ease of use, I wanted to actually add structures, scenery, and if I ever figure out how, run a virtual train.
Well, the last hour or so I have figured out how to place some structures. I've already had to make some track adjustments to fit a couple of them. Nothing major.
But all in all, nobody sees any problems? I tried to compress the proto and hope I didn't put a switch in a useless location or another concern was tracks being too close together. I only plan on running one engine at a time if that helps me out. And I changed the left lower dead spur back to the wye I originally had (but didn't want to spend the $$$). I'll just make it locked out and overgrown.
Thanks!
Looks good to me, too, but...
As always, there is room to improve! Add a couple of tracks to your staging yard and you won´regret it! And while your at it, take a look to the left side of the layout. While not changing the way you can operate the layout, an additional stretch of straight track before the line "splits" would certainly improve the overall look of your layout!
Looks good be warned and I know this from the last 2 days tweaking the SIW track work that after laying out my idea loosely I had to make some changes to accomdate the track to real world.
Joe Staten Island West
I've abandoned my first door sized design because I just couldn't build what I wanted to build on one door. This one is 3'x14' or two door sized. N scale.
I've essentially finished my move so portability is not as much of an issue, but I also don't want any benchwork built into a room. An island just works better for me.
The layout is loosely based on the C&NW RR circa late 60's, early 70's running through New Ulm MN. I picked that era because I like muscle cars, I think short cars will work better, and most importantly they still used cabooses! Also this is before UP sold off all the land next to the rails so it will be more senic than what is on the land now. Dozens and dozens of pole sheds.
I've included a few of the structures I want to include for sure on the plan, but until I print it out full size I wont plan any other structures.
What I would like is your input on operation. The 3 tracks to the back will be behind a background for extra trains and a programing track. I do understand that some adjustments need to be made with some switch alignment but it is a rough idea for me to move to the benchwork stage and put a parts list together.
I used google maps to get as much of the track proto as possible with some adjustments for practicality. I also mapped out the elevation for each street intersection and grade crossing for added realilism. I hope...
Let's see if I can attach this!