Math to those that never had boots on the ground and walked these cubbyhole yards and experience to those that walk these tiny urban industrial yards that was probably built when old Abe Lincoln was a wee lad.
Everything isn't as perfect as you may think it is on the railroad or has modern and up to date as you may believe.
Do you know how to check clearance if you think a car is to close to the switch after stopping your move close enough to check?
BTW..Those yards wasn't built for today's freight cars..Even a diesel switcher would make the rails crack and pop.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIEThat 1 1/2" was center to center based on the outlaying industrial yards I work as a brakeman.
BRAKIEWalking between cars you had around 20" between cars.
1½" in HO is equivalent to 10' 10". So mathematically that doesn't make sense based on Plate B or Plate C dimensions for prototype freight cars, which is 10' 8" across. So there could be only an inch or two in real life between cars with tracks spaced at 10' 10" (1½" in HO scale). I've never seen or read of any yard tracks this close together (at least not after 1900).
If there was 20" between cars in real life, the tracks were closer to 12 or 13-foot centers. 13-foot centers would be about 1.8" in HO scale.
It's just math.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
I was thinking that for the main part of the layout I could go the recommended spacing(which as stated earlier I happened upon by accident in the design). This yard would be the terminus of the small line. It is fed by a lager staging yard "off layout"(which happens to be on the opposite wall of the workshop). This staging yard I might go a bit wider to see the numbers, not that I would need to see numbers there as if I understand it right as I place new cars in service they are also in order as to what is on the track.
My Point to point loop will start in staging and leave the workshop, travel around the walls, around the room back to the workshop on the other wall. I am also thinking of devising a way to have a continous loop without going into the workshop. That portion of the layout is the yard, a few business(possibly a engine lease facility like larrys truck and electric in youngstown) and the engine yard with fueling facility and 3 bay building for repairs of rolling stock and engines. There will be an escape for the engine coming in the yard back to the Engine facility. That is if it all goes to plan in this evil head of mine.
alco's forever!!!!! Majoring in HO scale Minorig in O scale:)
That 1 1/2" was center to center based on the outlaying industrial yards I work as a brakeman. I was a real railroader according to my PRR,PC,Chessie and CSX paychecks.
Some of those yards was "dark" and the only light you had was your Starlite and you learned mighty fast to carry spare batteries.
Walking between cars you had around 20" between cars.Not much room to spare and a experience brakeman would not ride on the side of the cars after dark.We preferred to pull the cut and cherry pick the cars we needed set 'em out and shove the cut back into the track..
Understand I am not talking about a major terminal where there is space between the tracks. These small cubbyhole yards could be located in a small area between a river,creek, hillside and even industries or in one case a flood wall and a foundry..
BRAKIEHaving done my fair share of yard switching I favor 1 1/2" centers since you don't have much room between cars
If that is a center-to-center spacing, it's too close for HO, as has been pointed out before. That is less than 11 scale feet. Real-life railroadman John A. Droege recommended 11'6" to 12' spacing for the tightest paired tracks in a Team Yard, broader in classification yards. This was in 1912, most of us are modeling later eras with potentially larger cars. (Freight Terminals and Trains, reprinted by the NMRA). This book was intended for prototype railroad company engineering departments to use as a guide for laying out tracks in the real world.
Perhaps you are measuring something different than track-center-to-track-center.
Having done my fair share of yard switching I favor 1 1/2" centers since you don't have much room between cars.
As far as reading car numbers that shouldn't be a issue since you should pull all the cars on a given track and start classifying them into trains and shove the unneeded cars into another track for terminal dwell time since these cars may not have a CC/WB..
Cherry picking switching works at outlaying yards where a customer cars is stored until needed. They usually want first in /first out and those cars could be buried several cars deep.
I model in N scale, so let me talk in terms of scale feet. I think about 12 feet is fairlly prototypical in straight yard tracks. In N scale I use 1.25" on mainline tracks and sidings which is about 15 scale feet. In yards, however, I need to accomodate sight and fingers so I go with 1.5" which is 20 scale feet and still looks good. Translating back to HO, 2" is about 15 scale feet and 20 scale feet is 2.75".
Owner and superintendant of the N scale Texas Colorado & Western Railway, a protolanced representaion of the BNSF from Fort Worth, TX through Wichita Falls TX and into Colorado.
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riogrande5761 What is the surface I see in your photos? Thanks
rs2mikeWhat spacing between the tracks do you guys use? My current setup seems too close as i can not see car numbers.
I use my knuckles for a guide. Gotta be able to pick up a car, and perhaps even replace it, althought that *could* be done elsewhere.
Read the Numbers?If the numbers were all that important to you, you should already know what order the cars are in.
On railroad of LION, numbers of subway cars are just aft of the motorman's side window. The tower writes this number down as the train passes the tower, just the number of the lead car. Obvioulsy when the train departs the terminal the other end of the train will be leading and so the tower records that number upn departure.
The modelboard displays where the trains are, but not the numbes of the trains. If the dispatcher keeds to know what a particular train is, he will have to call on the radion and ask him. "Northbound Local at 34 Street, please Identify", "Roger control, this is Ferry 352, lead car 7253 at 34 Street North on the Local".
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
John Armstrong suggested at least 3 different spacings: 13ft, 14ft 6in, and 16ft 4in (or 1 13/16, 2 and 2 1/4 in respectively. The 2 1/4 was to accomodate the irreducible size of 1:1 scale fingers. As others have said, it depends how you intend using the yard.
Co-owner of the proposed CT River Valley RR (HO scale) http://home.comcast.net/~docinct/CTRiverValleyRR/
Soo Line's Ashland Yard was built on 13 foot track centers, so my model of it was built on 13 foot track centers... about 1 3/4 " in HO.
Not being able to see car numbers was not an issue. For one thing the yard crew is confined to the yard throat. Real yards work just fine without being able to see car numbers on the body tracks.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
If you use car cards, keep them in order for each track and you won't need to read reporting marks - even while fiddling waybills in staging.
My staging tracks are 45mm center to center (slightly over 1.75 inches for the metrically challenged) while I go to 50mm spacing on visible tangent track. I fiddle with easement offsets to assure adequate clearance where the tracks aren't straight. The three meters or so of visible double track main is on two different, widely-spaced alignments, simulating single track that was double-tracked later. That carries on into the netherworld, where there are staging and thoroughfare tracks between the nominal main tracks.
My track plan is, to understate, extremely unconventional. But then, so am I...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Hello all,
I just purchased an out of print copy of Linn Westcott's HO Primer; Model Railroading For All (9th printing 1976).
This was the first book my parents gave me when I began modeling. I bought it for sentimental reasons but soon discovered, that with some things in HO scale modeling, nothing had changed (or changed very little).
On page 20 there is a chart for track spacing on curves:
15- to 18-inch radius 3-inches18- to 24- " " 2-1/2-inches24- to 30- " " 2-1/4-inches30-inches and up 2-inches
I realize that these guidelines are meant for curves to avoid sideswiping cars on adjacent tracks and not yard spacing.
However when building ladder yards these guidelines might be helpful.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
riogrande5761 John Armstongs book is a must read. He does recommend track centers larger than 2-inches for curves - I only use 2-inch centers on straight track in the yard - actually 2 1/16th centers.
John Armstongs book is a must read. He does recommend track centers larger than 2-inches for curves - I only use 2-inch centers on straight track in the yard - actually 2 1/16th centers.
Turns out I had 2 in on center spacing in my initial layout. May bump it out just a tad to accomidate maybe a service truck in between the tracks
On railroad of LION, him spaces tracks according to what looks good. Him frequentls cuts turnouts down to size to get tracks closer together, others further apart.
Here is picture of Coney Island station ala LION.
The table is only wide enough for these six tracks, least wise if it is also to host the platforms. Almost no space between adjacen tracks, but you would have to have some very articulated arms to reach a derailment in this station given that it is a fully roofed station.
Bottom LION you design what you kneed and what looks good. You need 6 tracks put them sloser together, you nwant more space settle for four tracks.
Hi rs2mike
When it comes to setting up yard tracks etc
I do what ever is nessasary add bits in take bits out re jig untill the track spacing conforms to a Peco six foot way gauge on the set track side.
This gives enough room for fingers as well I figure most derailment problems will be in a yard so make allowence for it.
Once its right I mark all the fouling points and set up fouling point markers 1/2 to 1 inch clear of that point.
That seems to cover everything.
The gauges are that cheap if you can't find the two you need you just go and get another two.
regards John
John Armstongs book is a must read. He does recommend track centers larger than 2-inches for curves - I only use 2-inch centers on straight track in the yard - actually 2 1/16th centers. On my curves I prefer at least 2 1/4 inch centers and if you are down to 24 or less 2 1/2 inch center spacings is a good idea to avoid long cars side swiping.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I think spacing for yard tracks needs to pay attention to visibility of car numbers and reporting marks if you have an operating layout (and aging eyesight!).
I have adopted a 2" spacing for my entire layout, main and yard. I have a double track main line and I wanted the spacing on my curves to remain the same (for one thing not all the places I have curves were also curves on my prototype). Using the cheapest swap-meet flex track (old Atlas brass rail on the fibre ties - and man is that stuff the very devil to bend) I tried various radius curves for clearance using my longest passenger cars and settled on John Armstrong's fall-back 2" spacing, with curves of 38" and 40" radius at one corner, and 40" and 42" radius at two other corners. Anything tighter than 38" at 2" spacing looked hazardous to me.
Since I also have curves on one of my two large yards, I decided to stick with 2" everywhere.
Dave Nelson
Good info guys. Thank you. Mwhen i get home from my 8 day rotation on the road i am going to measure what i currently have. For right now i dont think i am going to have a staging yard per say. The ideas floating around in my head is a circle loop around the main part of layout room but can bu used as point to point. As the thought goes:
on one side of my workshop i have about 4 ft to my workbench area. I am thinking of building benchwork to a height where i can throw down a piece of 2" foam on top of the bench to connect to the 4' area extending it to as far as that particular workbench length( approx 6' long). This would be the distant yard where freight comes to the local yard on the other side of the workshop. This is also removable so the workbench can still be used. The other side of workshop will be the freight yard, engine yard and possible small industry area to be sceniced. Now you might say how do you connect all this to the world outside the workshop. Still working on that plausibility but so far it would be a removable section that would go in the door area (sort of likean x iguess) that would connect both sidesof the workshop to the outside world. At the crossing point maybe a bridge over the other rail. And at the outside world it would be a series of turnouts that either go to the yards or continue along the circular route.
So the idea is that a train would leave the right side of the workshop( looking at the door to the outside world) and go out the door to the left and circle around the room back to the door where it would enter the workshop and go to the left side (still looking out the door). This saves me cutting holes in one wall as i have no option to cut a hole in the other wall due to a pocket door to the workshop.
confused yet?
mike
I don't let the turnouts totally determine my track spacing in my yard, I did some test fitting but designed in based on John Armstrong recommended minimum 2-inch track centers in yards with a smidgeon more and drew out my track centers and laid accordingly.
Test fitting: Much track put in, but still have caboose, engine tracks etc. left to lay.
Test fitting:
Much track put in, but still have caboose, engine tracks etc. left to lay.
I use 2 inches between tracks--measured center of track to center of neighboring track--in the yard and sidings. This gives enough space to get between cars without derailments or disrupting scenery. I don't have a double mainline but also would use the same spacing convention.
My yard on the lower level is used for staging trains and set at 1 3/4". I keep the engines visible for each train so an operator can see the engine # when calling it up on their NCE system. My upper level freight yard has the ladder tracks on 2" centers so the yardmaster can see cars and the numbers if need be..
Neal
playing around with builing a yard that someday will go in my workshop. I started with a 3 way turnout and then dow to the regular switches from there. What spacing between the tracks do you guys use? My current setup seems too close as i can not see car numbers. Again inam just playing around for now. I had some leftover pink foam from an attic job. All track is being held down by pins So it is easily changed.
i currently have the center of the y as the inbound track that will have an engine escape at the end. It is long enough for rs-11 and 9 50' box cars. On either side of the inbound are two storage tracks for outbound and for locals. There is also one track for 4 cabboses on one side.