Thanks for the advice, but the duckunder doesnt bother me, its about chest height. I can also see everything on the other side of the ridge except for one track in the yard. (I am quite tall and can see over it.)
Can anyone help on how to adjust the mainline or track leading off the virginian ridge to the rest of the layout so that it will re enter the viginian traveling the same direction around the virginian loops as it did before.
The way it is now a train would loop around the virginian go up the ridge then proceed out into the rest of the looped layout, however it would merge back with the mainline and enter the virgianian traveling the opposite way and never being able to get back on the track heading back up the ridge from this direction. This would also cause a short i believe correct?
Remember that the Virginian layout has a ridge diagonally that blocks the view to the other side. Its designed to walk around the layout. Your large loop blocks your ability to walk around it without ducking under the benchwork during operation. That could be a real headknocker.
- Douglas
Hey guys, can you take a luck at this latest layout, my issues with this is I know it won't work, I just can't figure out why it doesn't and how to fix it. It's the Virginian on the 4x8 then a mainline connecting into it. The problem I see is the incline leading out of the Virginian into the mountains loops around and enters the virginian in the wrong direction on the Virginian, which means the flow of electricity will not work correct? How do I fix this? I am trying to plan on which turnouts I need to buy. Thanks
"Duckundes long term are just bad."
Amen, brother, amen!
Bear "It's all about having fun."
Thanks for the advice bearman. The reach is good everywhere i have checked thanks.
So here is the beginning of my design. I will be building the virginian layout first on the 4x8 then going to build the rest. I still need lots of planning on the rest of the layout with industries and operations needed, and potentially another yard. The main take aways from the unplanned section will be a mainline loop connecting to the virginian with #6 turnouts and a 30" minimmum curve radius. There is also a 18" min curve radius that will support industries in the foothills and wind its way through the mountains.
Here it is
You might want to check the reach, especially on the left and near the tool chest. Much more than 24" and getting to those spots may be an issue. Believe me, I know this from experience.
Hey Guys,
I have been MIA for awhile, but I have finished the preliminary benchwork for my layout. Here is a photo.
I have both a loop of HO up and a loop of O-27 as well so that i can watch trains roll a little bit as i work on models and designing the layout.
Here are the dimensions of the table
Now its time to get busy designing my layout!
Is there a video tutorial that meets my grumpy requirements
a) It has sound
b) Is a screen capture video, not a camera positioned at an angle and too far away to see what buttons are pushed nor a video of some guy giving a lecture on how to use it.
Rant mode off, I feel better.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
If your planning any water ways keep in mind 50 inches is about where your water ways would be on there base and everything else would beup from there. Definately good thinking with the outlets, I made that mistake on my last layout and on this layout I'm raised quite a bit , probably starting at around 60" maybe less and I'm 5-8".
Lynn
Present Layout progress
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/290127/3372174.aspx#3372174
I've been following along and there has been very much good advice. My advice for what its worth would be make sure you get what you want in your plan but don't over wish itand if you want a dog bone then build it that way, build the proper type of benchwork that is going to work for your plan, higher is better although you need to get use to working off a solid 4 legged step latter working back to front, definately work through learning xtrackcad as I've been using it for years and have gone through 3 layouts and what you design and what you print for track work /benchwork will be 99% accurate. With those long cars you will defiantely have to be careful with the S curves as they just won't look right, I model in the early era with steam and short cars so I enjoy my S curves.Please don't build your layout around the need for a big yard, big yards can be over rated.
Duckundes long term are just bad.
Been watching from the wings for a bit and seems we've come full-circle.
Whether a donut or a dogbone, the only way to design your concept, with the grades and broad curves you want, in the area you are working in, is to do it to scale. If the terrain was flat and the curves could be sharper then you could just wing it. But not going to happen. Case in point- even though I missed it, the program pointed out the S-curve issue. If it wasn't to scale then everyone else probably would have missed it too and when building you would have had a major problem.
So its hard to discuss the track plan much further without getting it all to scale.
I know you have got accustomed to anyrail. If you don't want to spend the money to buy the program then switch to XtrackCad. It may not be as "pretty" and there is a bit of a learning curve. But for designing a trackplan it works great. One thing I like about it is that you can print the trackplan out full-scale. Then transfer it directly to the layout. That way you can be sure to get those tricky areas just right.
By the way I am 6'3" so have the same benefit of longer reach, but the same downside to crawling under a layout. I can do basic scenery work back to around 3' but trackwork still gets difficult much beyond 2'. Being in my late 50's the dogbone made more sense even though it is more limiting and made planning more difficult.
Huntington Junction - Freelance based on the B&O and C&O in coal country before the merger... doing it my way. Now working on phase 3. - Walt
For photos and more: http://www.wkhobbies.com/model-railroad/
SpartanCookI can only use 50 track pieces in my trial of of anyrail
Get XtrackCAD. The full function program is free.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
You probably realize that the yard as drawn has no chance of fitting in that space. Just looking at the shape of the benchwork, I think the best place for the yard is the upper right. The benchwork looks like it lends itself to holding a double-ended yard very nicely using #6 turnouts.
Most folks will use a narrow section of benchwork to make ducking under easier.
30" would be too wide for me to reach to the back, but I'm not 6'4".
The black part of the plan needs a lot of work. Using that switchback arrangement for your yard will not work well operationally. Think about having built a train on one of those tracks and having to get it out onto the main. The angle on that yard ladder is way sharper than any commercially available turnouts. I'd redraw the black part to scale with scale sized turnouts.
Take a look at Riogrande5761's posts with his layout pictures. He is building what is probably the optimum arrangement for a donut shaped layout. I don't recall him having posted a track plan, but you can get the idea from his pictures.
Ok guys, big redesign tonight.
I was thinking if i got the space i might as well try to make better use of it. I started not liking the way i would have to fix the dogbone by giving up space for my yard and other things. So here is the new plan. The mainline is in green with 36" minimum. This breaks off into three sections through the mountains one over them(26 in min) , one tunnel through them (32 in min) and the main skirting along the coast.
We now have a Coastal town in Alaska think (Seward) that sits on an inlet with a protected harbor (The operating circle). The small town will surround the dock area, that houses salmon boats, possibly a train ferry, and maybe an oil freighter. Oil will be brought in by a pipeline to a holding area to laod both rail and freighter. Also there will be a coal mine in the mountains.
Things I see that need to be fixed eventually, the inlets opening to the ocean. Where to put it so i can have straight track to put in a draw bridge over it to allow larger freighters through.
I am sure i have switches that dont transition well into curves or an S curve somewhere on the main. Please help me find them
Oh forgot to mention the benchwork is 30" wide all the way around.
What do you guys think?
SpartanCook Hey guys here is the sample layout plan i have so far. Right now everything in 26" radius min. I widened out the walkway by narrowing out some of the benchwok along the top wall. This will be pretty basic, a dogbone with one choice going into the mountains to continue to higher elevation to 9 in at a 4% grade or continuing through the mountains at the 4.5 in elevation it will have already been on from the 3% grade. Opinions and comments are encouraged. I want to get this right without to much of a headache.
Hey guys here is the sample layout plan i have so far. Right now everything in 26" radius min.
I widened out the walkway by narrowing out some of the benchwok along the top wall. This will be pretty basic, a dogbone with one choice going into the mountains to continue to higher elevation to 9 in at a 4% grade or continuing through the mountains at the 4.5 in elevation it will have already been on from the 3% grade.
Opinions and comments are encouraged. I want to get this right without to much of a headache.
Fill in the "inlet" of aisle near the yard at the left with benchwork, lose the big loop with the S curve and connect the bottom of the loop directly with the darker line track at the yard throat. It will make the benchwork alot deeper, but you have open space to access the layout on the left.
Put a backdrop down the middle of the new leftside blob to make two distinct scenes, nice and deep. Put a tunnel portal near the corner carve out in the upper left where the track starts to double back on itself. You should be able to maintain access underneath the tunneled trackage until it reappears to the right as the benchwork gets narrow again. The hidden trackage should also help keep the scenes separated, making the yard scene more convincing.
This will also allow the grade to be a lot shallower on the entire left side of the layout, or maybe even no grade at all.
cuyamaAlthough others are suggesting that a lift- or swing-gate is trivial, for track at two levels and on different grades (as would be the case nearly everywhere on your doughnut), it's a bit more complex. Not impossible, folks have done it. But not trivial, either.
As long as the tracks are not directly on top of each other, you could build the easy version twice. If they are on top of each other, you could make one drop and one lift (lift is a little harder than drop, but not as hard as two tracks at different levels on one gate).
Your image so others can see it.
This is not drawn at all to scale, so it's difficult to know what space you are working with now.
There are ways to accomplish what you want either as a dogbone or a doughnut.
Although others are suggesting that a lift- or swing-gate is trivial, for track at two levels and on different grades (as would be the case nearly everywhere on your doughnut), it's a bit more complex. Not impossible, folks have done it. But not trivial, either.
Good luck with your layout.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
If you look at about the 4:40 mark of the video, you can see some of my Rapido coaches parked on the curve. If memory serves I think this is about a 32" radius curve and they look really cranked on that curve. They don't look any better when they are moving on that tight of a curve. I think Carl is heading in the right direction trying to turn the blobs into more of a teardrop. If you think access hole in the middle of the teardrop, maybe you can come up with larger curves. On the right side perhaps you could bring the track right back to the back wall and have an access aisleway in the middle on that side.
In this photo, the passage way is 17" wide. I thought I would only use it to access my Captains chair in the centre of the room, however I fine myself spending a lot of time in that 17" space. I am 5'11" and in reasonably good shape so I can walk straight through there and stand and work in there with no issue's. Also take a look at my access hole on the right. I can pop up there pretty easily as long as I do my hour on the bike every day. Access holes are preferred over duckunders in my book. I will eventually have a piece of removable scenery in there. Think Col. Hogan coming out of the stump in the woods.
I would however take a duckunder over small radius curves in a heartbeat. Just look at it as exercise.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
SpartanCook1). Coming to hate crawling under a table.
There are a couple fixes for this. You can move the layout up to chest height so it is a duck under and not a crawl under or you can set the layout height so you can sit on a wheeled stool and roll under.
SpartanCook2). Not having any clue how to build a reliable liftout section.
You don't need a liftout section. A simple drop bridge is fine and it's easy to build. The Rehab my Railroad series on MRVP is one source for instruction. There are many others.
SpartanCook3). Not being able to just buy a lifout for a resonable amount of money. Under $100.
These are easy to build. Do not be afraid. You don't have to buy one.
Pro #4 (which based on your operational desires should be #1) is that it is very easy to accommodate large radius curves so those passenger cars will not just operate without derailing, they will look good too. Think 36".
for example
Ok so i know that i mentioned before I wanted it to be a dogbone shape, and i possed this same question on the last thread I made before I rearranged things in the basement. It would make it much easier to figure out a plan completing the benchwork into a donut correct?
What are the pro's and cons for this, and am i going to regret not doing this from the start.
My worries are 1). Coming to hate crawling under a table. (I am 6'4")
2). Not having any clue how to build a reliable liftout section. As a first timer to layouts this doesnt sound fun.
3). Not being able to just buy a lifout for a resonable amount of money. Under $100.
The Pro's
1.) Not worrying about the blobs anymore and where they sit on the layout.
2.) Easily being able to run two mainlines if I chose
3.) Easier designing to weave one track over the other on the mainline. Have one crossover on the mainline and having it complete two loops around
Or... you could just shift the whole layout counter clockwise into a shape like this:
HObbyguyhow about if he moves the upper curve to the right a bit? Looks to me that it would help straighten out that S.
That's an option. (assuming of course that he's ok with moving everything that's attached to it) Moving the center point of that curve 6" or so to the right should be enough to create the 12" straight that would accomodate the 85' cars.