You'll probably receive more views (and thus help) by starting a new thread for the new space.
Good luck with your layout.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
My roommate is moving in a few days, I'm going to take over that room which looks like this:
I had hoped to get my workbench in here as well. I haven't worked out how to deal with the window or closet either.
Julian
Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)
Byron's layout design is your best bet for what you're looking for.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
A mile-long prototype yard is not a great inspiration for a layout of this size, IMHO.
Since I have not been able to communicate clearly in multiple posts, I just sketched the darned thing. Maybe this will help.
Outer oval radius is 24" minimum or larger, inner 22", industry spurs 20" and up. I did not take time to consider your section breaks, so you might want to lay out the industry spurs differently to make for fewer tracks crossing those seams.
The longest yard track is a just over 5½' in the clear. The curves in the yard ladder are very broad (30" or greater) so that the tracks may be only 2" apart center-to-center.
PECO #5 turnouts are quite compact and the tightest radius through the diverging leg is about 30", so they work fine with the 24" curves. If you want to substitute other turnouts, what is drawn here may not fit. All the industry footprints shown are typical HO kits, of course replace them with your choices.
At the very top and bottom of the sketch, tracks are pretty close to the edge for a short distance. A piece of plastic as a guard would be a good idea.
Feel free to use this sketch for inspiration. It is to-scale, but since it was done fairly quickly, it’s offered “as-is” only.
Byron
Steven S Your spurs don't seem to have much purpose to them. They're in such tight spots that there's no room for an industry to be served. They exist just for the sake of existing. Think about what industries are going to be served, and what kind of space they'll need. If space is tight, industries can be represented by building flats against a wall, or having most of it "off layout", while the portion that receives rail cars is modeled. Steve S
Your spurs don't seem to have much purpose to them. They're in such tight spots that there's no room for an industry to be served. They exist just for the sake of existing. Think about what industries are going to be served, and what kind of space they'll need. If space is tight, industries can be represented by building flats against a wall, or having most of it "off layout", while the portion that receives rail cars is modeled.
Steve S
jjdamnit Hello all, An observation: Your yards are overly complex or put in a corner of the pike. Try to keep your yards within the oval(s) of the mainline and close to your access, easily in reach. Once you have a reliable mainline; single- or double-track, you shouldn’t need to have constant access to it (them). With yards and their switching, uncoupling and coupling moves, having them within easy reach will promote your using them more than if they are tucked in a corner or overly complicated. The BNSF yard at La Junta, Colorado, is a two track main leading to a ladder yard. If you "flip" the yard to the inside of your oval this might provide the potential for industries you are looking for. The yard at La Junta has several ladders. You could eliminate some of them and in place put the industries where these ladders were. Hope this helps.
Hello all,
An observation:
Your yards are overly complex or put in a corner of the pike.
Try to keep your yards within the oval(s) of the mainline and close to your access, easily in reach.
Once you have a reliable mainline; single- or double-track, you shouldn’t need to have constant access to it (them).
With yards and their switching, uncoupling and coupling moves, having them within easy reach will promote your using them more than if they are tucked in a corner or overly complicated.
The BNSF yard at La Junta, Colorado, is a two track main leading to a ladder yard. If you "flip" the yard to the inside of your oval this might provide the potential for industries you are looking for.
The yard at La Junta has several ladders. You could eliminate some of them and in place put the industries where these ladders were.
Hope this helps.
So here's a change based on (what I think) you are saying; others may have objections? Sorry I got lazy on editing.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Okay, I've simplified the yard plan and changed the lower turnout into a spot for 1 or 2 more industries.
It's crowded, but I think it will work. I'm thinking of making the lower right spur section a team track for a large warehouse of some kind, or perhaps a quarry. I'm not really sure. The mostly-open left hand section will have a lot of town scenery served by truck, which should support the team/warehouse section. The lower RH section is pretty open anyway, I probably won't build it out at first.
Okay, I'll work on it.
The yard area still seems very complex, which makes the tracks much shorter than they could be -- and thus less useful. Fewer turnouts in a simpler arrangement would likely provide a better result.
Aaaaaalright.
I have altered my layout to have small track sections over the gaps instead of trying to accomodate odd track sections.by not gluing down these small portions I should be able to lift them off fairly easily for mobility's sake.
I've put the red lines where the breaks in the modules are.
Here's my current design:
Choops Here is what I come up with that will fit. #6 switches. https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlp1/v/t1.0-9/10157326_10207149711935481_8623242566529049444_n.jpg?oh=bc6ab8bd1b959de28cf2a708267a9cbe&oe=572F1E0C Steve
Here is what I come up with that will fit. #6 switches.
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlp1/v/t1.0-9/10157326_10207149711935481_8623242566529049444_n.jpg?oh=bc6ab8bd1b959de28cf2a708267a9cbe&oe=572F1E0C
Steve
I like the look of Steve's plan above. Maximizing the radius where possible is a good idea. You can eliminate the switchback by installing a curved turnout (LH) in the upper left on the outside main line. Your crossover could be added in somewhere as a dummy track to represent another unmodeled railroad crossing yours. You could even add an interchange track (partial) so that rail cars can leave your railroad (interchanges are "universal industries" ie: anything can enter or leave your railroad from one).
Agree with steve that, given the number of tracks, the removable sections will be difficult to do. Is it possible to put the controls on the outside of the layout at the bottom of the diagram, and use the center hole for access only? My suggestion is to wait for the other room to open up and see what space is available for the layout. Your latest plan is an improvement over the original plan, but continued tweaking can improve it even more.
I have 6x8 feet to work in. The layout needs to be separable and movable. The RH side is blocked of somewhat by the sofa being there, and the upper left top 1.5 ft of space has a glass cabinet about 4" away from it. The rest of the upper and lower sections are walkways, so it can't be expanded beyond that. I can sit on the sofa and turn around on my knees, but it's no way to operate or really work on a layout. The layout itself is about 44 inches, so when I sit on a low stool inside the layout, it's at eye level. I spent about a year planning the layout, and given the space, tools, and workspace at my disposal, this is what fit. Some things, like a cookie cutter layout, were not possible due to lacking space to turn the lumber. While I was working in the space cutting lumber etc, I had curtains up and a tarp down to contain the dust.
My roommate is moving out in a few weeks though, so I will possibly be getting his room for this. It's 16x9'6", but I am still not sure what we are doing with that room. I may need to fit my workbench in there as well. We shall see.
you have too many curved tracks and a switch where you want your lift out sections. You can try it but it probably wont't work out well. Try shifting things around so you only have the two mains going over the lift out section.
Why the double cross over. two seperate crossovers work better.
You need a runaround track on the left side somewhere or you may as well rund around the whole layout to get to the other end of your trains.
You are running large engines and I think you may not like how they look on your radii.
If you have room to walk around the outside. make the layout larger and walk around the inside instead.
Seems that you are trying to put everything you want into a small space. It may be a good idea to take a step back and narrow down your wants.
post the size of your space and I will see what I can come up with for you.
fieryturbo:
If you want to reinforce your foam scenery base you might consider using some fiberglass around the edges. A couple of layers of fiberglass cloth with the proper resin will make a very strong surface. However, be warned that you can't just apply the fiberglass directly on top of the foam or the foam will dissolve instantly. You need to put in a barrier layer between the fiberglass and the foam. Newspaper will work. You can glue it to the foam with acrylic paint and then paint over the newspaper with another coat to seal it. Use a mask when sanding the fiberglass! Pay attention to the instructions for mixing the resin with the hardener or you will have a colossal mess on your hands!
You have certainly made your original plan more interesting!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Either way, even though I may seem confrontational, BMMECNYC, I do appreciate the help. I have the books in front of me, and I've gone through them a bit. I've given myself longer yards for both car storage and building trains. I've also got some spurs on the right side of the layout for some basic yet-undefined industries. I hope I'm "getting there" at least. Nothing is set in stone.
I have something I'm thinking about that's concerning me more than the trackplan now though - how am I going to operate my lift-out sections? I devised the following. though I am not sure if the foam will wear well in this configuration, and I know I will need to back the foam(it being 1") for the lift-out sections at least to be able to put up with being lifted out on a semi-regular basis. Noise may also be a factor in those sections. I'm really not sure what to do at this point:
The black section is the open space, but the lower and upper center sections are supposed to lift out so I can move into the center to do operation. I'm young-ish (36) so crawling under them is not an issue so far, but if my dad comes by, I'd really like that option open for the lift-out so he can enjoy what I've built.
fieryturboUnlike the cement plant, it doesn't even give a single photo from above (like the coordinates you linked on Google Maps) or a likeness (like the cement plant drawing.)
I counted 1 on page 33, 1 on page 35, 2 on page 36, 2 on page 37 the rest could be (some are) classified as "team tracks", but most of the color photos are transload facilities in one form or another. A "transload facilility" is a section of track on which a railcar is parked and its contents are transfered to a truck the other way around. Litterally can be modeled with one turnout and a section of track long enough to park a car and a road vehicle next to it. The more complex version of the modern team track (reload or transload facility) includes a building or container for storage of the commodity handled. They only provided photos of the simple version, because transloading specific commodities is covered elsewhere within the series.
Enough about the books though, back to the track plan. Im working on something in RR track (a track design software). Im using code 83 track and attempting to get you 24" radius (for all main lines), however I am finding that difficult and fitting in turnouts. Are you opposed to trying your hand at flex track? The reason I ask is because in some cases it is cheaper to lay long sections and easier as one piece than it is to splice together lots of sectional pieces (I understand you already have some, and those can be used, and some curves are easier to lay with flex track, ie those off of turnouts).
While you are at it check out the NMRA Standards and Recommended practices here: http://www.nmra.org/index-nmra-standards-and-recommended-practices
S-7, S-8 and RP-11 are a good place to start. RP 20.1 will be more usefull once you get the layout up and running.
i have a different idea of fun then most but my layout is mostly city reality related. I built a chemical plant emitting pollution land air water etc. I built a landfill of 3 pits and river coverts for this pollution. how about a oil refinery or a ashphalt plant or cement plant or a rock quarry or a coal mine. i would check train swap meets for built models that save time cost etc and are pre weathered. the faller cement plant is also a nice piece and moderatley priced.
Your yard certainly offers lots of opportunities for switching cars around, but I think it lacks enough space for actually parking cars or cuts of cars while you are building your trains.
Here are a couple of suggestions for your yard. They are almost the same. the first one has one additional track connected to the mainline. There are certainly possibilities for improvement, like perhaps another cross-over in the top of the yard:
I am using 3rdPlanIt to design the track plans and I am using Peco code 100 track. Note that there are several double curved turnouts. The minimum radius is just over 18" which admittedly presents a problem for your 85' passenger cars so the track plans may not be of any use to you as they are currently laid out. Hopefully they will give you some ideas.
Regards
*shrug* yeah maybe. The duck under is where I plan to mainly be running my layout from though.
fieryturboI can walk around the top, bottom, and right hand sections
Then it might make sense to flip the design so that the yard (when you are ready to incorporate it) is along the right side where you may reach it without ducking under.
The yard isn't redesigned, it's just whatever I came up with. I was just trying to make a siding that can hold a lot of cars/locomotives. I'll post back here once I've read the books.
I have been following this project and agree with cuyama that the redesigned yard is not efficient, very little space for the industries to be placed, and way too many crossovers. It seems that everything is being placed in one area. Putting sidings on the right side of the plan, even extending around to the top and bottom of the plan would give you a lot more space to install your industries, along with a simpler siding setup on the left side.
BMMECNYC fieryturbo "There are so many possibilities for modeling transload centers that it's impossible to list potential models and arrangements." What is that supposed to mean? Exactly what it says. There are thousands of prototype examples that have existed and some that still do exist. They cannot possibly list every single example (the book would not be portable, and it would cost to much to print). So you get a generic article on the subject.
fieryturbo "There are so many possibilities for modeling transload centers that it's impossible to list potential models and arrangements." What is that supposed to mean?
Exactly what it says. There are thousands of prototype examples that have existed and some that still do exist. They cannot possibly list every single example (the book would not be portable, and it would cost to much to print). So you get a generic article on the subject.
It says, "There are so many possibilities for modeling transload centers that it's impossible to list potential models and arrangements." as in, ANY potential models or arrangements. Unlike the cement plant, it doesn't even give a single photo from above (like the coordinates you linked on Google Maps) or a likeness (like the cement plant drawing.)
I requested the freight yard book. the rest are already on their way.
I cannot walk around the entire layout, but I can walk around the top, bottom, and right hand sections. There are no sections I cannot reach. The blank spot in the center is a hole. The two 2x2' center pieces are lift-outs, so the operator is in the center. I'm using Code 83 sectional track. The layout space is 6ft wide x 8ft deep. The layout will be DCC.
fieryturbo cuyama A diverging turnout at the end of a curve as you have on your new plan can create a potentially troublesome S-curve as shown in the image at the left. The alternative arrangement at right creates no S-curve and allows for a longer diverging track in many cases. Note that most real-life railroads avoided having the mainline path passing through the diverging route of a turnout, but if the turnout is broad enough to match up well with the mainline minimum radius, this can be a handy trick on the model. Alright, I've taken your advice into account and rearranged the yard. it's not quite done, as I may add another outside track to the left. I've tried to leave ample spacing in the yard between sidings. As far as industries go, I ordered the 3 Kalmbach industry books via interlibrary loan, so I expect those will be here in a week or so. I suppose it's also worth mentioning that I have a DDA40X and several 85' passenger cars that will go on the layout, and I plan getting the Scaletrains Big Blows sometime in the near future. The D-D wheelsets on the DDA40X seem to be okay over the turnouts.
cuyama A diverging turnout at the end of a curve as you have on your new plan can create a potentially troublesome S-curve as shown in the image at the left. The alternative arrangement at right creates no S-curve and allows for a longer diverging track in many cases. Note that most real-life railroads avoided having the mainline path passing through the diverging route of a turnout, but if the turnout is broad enough to match up well with the mainline minimum radius, this can be a handy trick on the model.
A diverging turnout at the end of a curve as you have on your new plan can create a potentially troublesome S-curve as shown in the image at the left.
The alternative arrangement at right creates no S-curve and allows for a longer diverging track in many cases. Note that most real-life railroads avoided having the mainline path passing through the diverging route of a turnout, but if the turnout is broad enough to match up well with the mainline minimum radius, this can be a handy trick on the model.
Alright, I've taken your advice into account and rearranged the yard. it's not quite done, as I may add another outside track to the left. I've tried to leave ample spacing in the yard between sidings.
As far as industries go, I ordered the 3 Kalmbach industry books via interlibrary loan, so I expect those will be here in a week or so.
I suppose it's also worth mentioning that I have a DDA40X and several 85' passenger cars that will go on the layout, and I plan getting the Scaletrains Big Blows sometime in the near future. The D-D wheelsets on the DDA40X seem to be okay over the turnouts.
Couple of questions. What is the area of the space you are putting your layout in? Can you walk around the layout or are there unreachable areas? And what brand of track/what rail size (code 100, 83, or 70) are you using?
Are you planning on using DC for train control or DCC?
fieryturbo"There are so many possibilities for modeling transload centers that it's impossible to list potential models and arrangements." What is that supposed to mean?
Team tracks are the simplest of industries. Literaly all you need for a team track is a short spur or 2 (long enough for 1 or 2 cars) on level ground and open space on one side of the track or both for the car to be unloaded. They tell you right in the words that you can load/unload nearly anything from a teamtrack.
Go to satellite view at the following cooridinates:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8414418,-86.9996626,151m/data=!3m1!1e3
There you will find an INRD (Indiana Railroad) reload center (modern version of team track), this one handles lumber for a local lumberyard in Odon, Indiana.
fieryturboThe book itself *looks* good with lots of color photos of random things, which don't really give any additional insight into the subject.
Every photo in the transloading chapter showed a different example (some more than one in the same photo) of comodities that are/were transported by rail. Some of them even tell you how the products were transfered from road to rail or vice versa. Im not really sure what you are looking for here. If you have specific questions you might try asking them here in the forums.
fieryturboI hope the other 3 are better.
The other 3 Industries along the tracks books contain about the same level of info as the cement plant chapter. If you are looking for specific data about a specific named industry (ie SD Warren Paper Co, Westbrook, ME), you will not find it in these books.
John Armstrongs book that was recommended to you is a great rescource for learning how to plan a model railroad. It does not contain specific track plans for you to copy, rather how to design a railroad that will operate reliably (not putting in S curves, separation between parallel tracks, passing sidings, yards and engine terminals etc).
The late Andy Sperandeo also wrote an excellent book called The Model Railroaders Guide to Freight Yards. It specifically talks about how to design a freight yard for model railroad operations.