jfb that could be my soldering issue right there to heavy of a metal to solder with. I am still asking though who sells around 32 gauge wires and connectors any ideas? I used liquid oateys for most of my soldering areas and have had decent sucess with some breakage. I before model railroading never soldered before so real world experience was not in my grasp.
that could be my soldering issue right there to heavy of a metal to solder with. I am still asking though who sells around 32 gauge wires and connectors any ideas? I used liquid oateys for most of my soldering areas and have had decent sucess with some breakage. I before model railroading never soldered before so real world experience was not in my grasp.
1. I found smaller 18-22 gauge connectors at menards that were smaller in diameter then the others and will be hidden by bushes for the signals. 2.thank you for the advice about the flex track.3 I am using wooden dolls for the track alignment on my flip down edges and computer board for conductivity after drilling. 4. i put in 22 hrs of work this week and wire tied mini wire looms and used plastic wire looms around them and they are thouroughly marked. I am also using a 205 atlas connector to manually control the signals.
I am just joining this discussion to ask a question. I want to add an HO loop track to my Disney Christmas Village that is on a narrow (24") board at one end (the other end is 48" wide). Can I buy sectional HO curved track with an 11 inch or shorter radius ? If not, can I easily bend flex track to make an approximate 180 degree turn on an 11 inch radius ? If so, what would be the best (easiest to install correctly) flex track to buy ?
I just installed a Bachman HO Holiday Special Trolley with point to point operation using Backman's HO E-Z Auto Reversing Track System. We like that trolley system so much that I wanted to add a continuous loop track to the 9 foot long village. If push comes to shove on the short radius curve, I will use another trolley on the loop if I cannot use a regular HO locomotive. But, I wouldalso like to run some Disney HO trains on that loop if I could.
I guess that we should inform the plumber's union to stop sweat soldering copper pipes before they melt all of them.
Joe
jfbsolder does melt copper i can attest to that
That would be odd and suggests a problem with technique. Billions of electronic devices in the world have components soldered onto copper-clad boards with heat.
As noted earlier ...63/37 solder (used for electronics) melting point: 361° FLead-free solder is a little higher: 430-460° FCopper melting point: 1,984° F
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
I appreciate the solder idea but I still ned to know if someone sells around 32 gauge wires or butt connectors. I use oateys solder and it does not seem to hold to good and sometimes it splits,this is liquid oateys by the way. I have used solid solder in the past and found it to be more work after as in filing and butt conectors do work better in some situations. This is from experience i am talking and solder does melt copper i can attest to that and solid solder causes this situation hence the use of oateys liquid solder. The continual heat needed for the solid solder to flow causes the copper to melt before it flows usaully.
Sorry, I find it hard to understand what you are asking.
But here's a possible answer to what I think you are asking. To extend the wires, I might try using a small piece of copper-clad Printed Circuit Board (PCB) for each wire. Solder a larger-gauge wire to the piece of PCB first, then tin the fine wire from the signal with solder and solder it quickly to the PCB. You will need to do this separately for each wire -- don't combine them or you will create short circuits (unless you know exactly what you are doing and soem of them are to be tied together). And finally secure the chunks of PC board under the layout with hot glue.
this particular part of this post is being closed now if nothing else comes up of course. i read on anothers post that the screw idea i posted has worked which is flat head screws around the tracks and through the computer board i suggested earlier. I will still suggest that anybody should use some sort of rubber product to cut down electrical shorts on the screws . I would not like a voltage drop or short anywhere on my layout. I STILL NEED MY POST ABOUT SIGNAL WIRING ANSWERED EXTENDING THOSE WIRES CAN BE DAUNTING THERE ARE NO WIRES AROUND THAT SMALL ANY IDEAS?
this is a follow up on my own post. I need to know from anybody if they have extended wiring from signals of all types and if it has been sucessful. I was told by mrc to tie the wires together and then crimp then and it is very hard to find wires that thin and crimp butt conectors to crimp them toghether with. I was wondering if someone has experienced a better way to extend the wires. I cannot conceive how all of the wires together can allow proper operation when they are individual now. I also have not found thin enough wires or the proper connectors for them at menards home depot lowes or ace hardware so does anybody have a better idea? i think the wires are 34 gauge and they will not work in 22 gauge butt connectors they are just 2 thin.
I hear you on the conductivity idea,I am using computer board flattened to transport the electricity and the board touches the other through friction and tight confining. I am also trying to avoid as much extra wiring as possible,I have a dozen atlas 215,s already. but I need more ideas on the alignment issue. I have stripped the flex track to the rails for conductivity purposes and like i stated nails are no longer a good way to go and gluing to the computer boards will cause more resistance issues. I need a idea that has worked. I am thinking screws outside of the tracks to hold them that are much longer then the depth of all of it insulation included and then liquid tape to cut down on electrical shorts. does anybody have a better idea?
The melting point of copper (1984 F) is 2x higher than the max temp of most soldering irons. Just solder it. You can't melt the wires without a torch. If you melt a little insulation you can put heat shrink tubing over it. The twist and epoxy method will most likely provide a high resistance connection and your lights may vary in brightness or not work at all.
As for your flip down (go down not up), use track nails to hold your flex track and cork in place. Glue the cork with yellow wood glue if you want. This is assuming your flip down is just made out of wood. If you have foam on top use liquid nails to hold the tracks in place.
As for power, just run a length of wire for each rail leaving enough extra slack to your fold down So that the wires can reach the fold down in any position. Run the wires through a piece of over sized heat shrink tubing held in place with a wire staple (i will post photos of my fold up when I return home). Run these wires to a terminal block. The you can run the wires from the terminal block to the track.
Hey guys 1 more thing I am putting in 3 block signals now also. I found out that instead of possibly melting the thin wired signal led,s that you can twist a wire onto them and use harbor freight expoxy to hold it and let it FULLY DRY MINIMUM 5 TO 7 DAYS. I called there manufacturer and was told the straight truth as long as you use twistable wiring on the lights for connection the expoxy will seal and hold it and conduct electricity and avoid possible burned wires.
I have a room closed off in my basement jammed end to end with this layout. I have a fold down for access to the rear for derailments etc. The layout does not hang from the ceiling but i am putting in a pair of file cabinet slides mounted on wall studs for a walk under for the gary steel mill module with quick dissconects on the wiring. I HAVE NOT SEEN TOO MANY POSTS ON THE MOST DEFINITE WAY TO ADRESS TRACK ALIGNMENT AFTER A BOARD IS CUT AND HINGED. i AM USING COMPUTER BOARD FOR CONDUCTIVITY AND THE RAILS ARE SRIPPED AND PUT ON THEM BARE. i AM THINKING LONG SCREWS ON THE TRACK SIDES ON BOTH BOARDS INSULATED WITH LIQUID TAPE TO STOP SHORTING AND TO ALIGN THE TRACKS. DOES ANYBODY HAVE A BETTER IDEA?
jfbWHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO KEEP TRACK ALIGNED AFTER A FLIP UP OR FLIP DOWN IS ADDED.
What *is* this flip up or flip down that you speak of. Have you a movable section to allow access to the table, or are you lifting the entire layout up against the wall to either put it away (as my cousins dind in the 1950s) or to work on the wires etcl.
Neither application isll harm the track or track alighments if you are using nails into wood or glue onto anything else. In the case of the lift gate, it is hard wired separately so that good electrical contact is maintained. You also need a device to shut down all power on that district when the gate is up.
Smashboard signals are used on railroads where there be drawbridges. In HO tis will stope the train, on the realroad it will wake up an inattentive engineer so that he will at least have time to put on his life vest if not stop the train befoe it goes over the side.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
thanks for the new info guys the products out there have changed for real. I have 1 more question guys that needs answering. WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO KEEP TRACK ALIGNED AFTER A FLIP UP OR FLIP DOWN IS ADDED. I am thinking longer screws and liquid electrical tape, The liquid tape would be for insulation the screws might touch electrified areas in time from simple physics, contraction expansion respectively. I am using a simple barrel latch for alignment for the boards. I am in confusion to what works best for the track movement and track nail points are not around the edges.
jfbso the question that still stands do model power block signals take nicely to wire extensions?
LION does not use Model Power signals or equipment. All signals are made by the LION. My layout should have about four times as many signal blocks as I have put on it, but each signal block requires two relays, say about 6$ each. LION uses one signal block for every platform edge. Him has 42 platform edges, so is big system for the LION.
LION uses a 16v wall wart (a big one) for his signals / automation system. The relays are all in a central relay location...
Him uses cables to bring the necessary connections to the place on the layout where they will be used...
These white conductors came from a 1920s vintage pipe organ, so each cable had six bundles of 11 conductors each. Without being color coded, the LION had to do some testing to get them all correct. When I required more cabling, I found, and later bought som 25 pair cat 3 telephone cables to finish the project. I assure you that distance is not an issue with this system.
LION has a reed switch imbedded within the track gauge, and magnets on the underside of the trains of him. This detects the train, and pulls the relay on the main panel. It the displays a red aspect on the block signal. An auxiliary relay holds the main relay pulled untill... The train passes the next detector and causes the aux relay to drop the main relay to display an yellow aspect on the first signal and a red aspect on the second signal. The second relay being pulled causes the selection between the yellow and the green aspect on the first. The third detector carries on the process, except that in releasing the second relay, the first block now displays green.
Proper capitalization and paragraph breaks are your friend.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
My terminal blocks differ from Broadway Lion's only in using studs and nuts - my wiring tool is a small ratchet wrench. I also cable my wires - sort of. My steel stud benchwork provides natural wire runs, wires held in by a short length of cap strip (snapped on) every 15 - 20 inches.
The keys to keeping wiring easy to maintain are twofold:
When you have an electrical glitch, you'll thank yourself.
I found liquid electrical tape at my local big box home improvement emporium. That's also the cheapest source for wire unless you purchase it by the mile from a specialized dealer.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with, hopefully, bulletproof electricals)
Hi all
The Lion is correct you run your wires tidy and bunched into cables all neat and tidy
It makes finding problems a whole lot easier.
I also like to keep a colour code as well so black is all ways common return red with a green trace is always red on a signal green with a red trace is always green on a signal if yellow is on a signal that would be yellow with a red trace.
All the wires for that signal are tied together back to the pannel and so on forming cables as you work back to the pannel
I only use plain red and black where there is a definate positive and negative or active and neutral and they are marked BL and NL for DC and BX and NX for AC
So that would go to point switches and from the point switches on it goes into colour code so I know the wire is from a switch to a set of points or what ever it is going to.
run your wiring tidy from the word go, it can be very difficult to tidy up later if its set up as a rats nest of wiring to start with.
It is also a good idea to draw a wiring diagram for a complex wiring set up for later problem solving.
regards John
jfbI marked my wires and they are individual but the lay overlapping each other hence possible shorting inside the wire looms ,will this cause problems or not please note here from experience again.
You should be using wiring with insulation on it. With my DCC you twist the pair of wires together. Not sure what you mean by "wire looms". Whatever those are I dont use them. Suitcase connectors are workable in a fixed model railroad that doesnt get moved around alot. I used them for the track feeders because I did not feel like pushing pieces of shrink tubing down the entire bus and I couldnt find cold shrinkwrap in my area. I have not had problems with suitcase connectors yet, however my electrical engineer girlfriend thinks we should not use them (she's not doing the wiring so Im using them). If you are adding wire extensions I would solder them do not use suitcase connectors for this purpose. Also what do you mean by solidly crimped? If in a terminal block, wire nut or other similar device yes. Twisted together and pinched with vice grip, no dont do that.
As for holding down track, I use Liqiud Nails LP-903, cork and T-pins. Once the liquid nails is dry I pull the T-pins out.
lion this a compliment to you. I love the new york style straight to the point, It allows more time for more projects winter summer etc. I have built a 18x28 basement layout of chicago southside plus north and southwest bound and east bound to the indiana dunes. oil refinery,steel mill factories and even a landfill. I also hand built the whole chicago l system . i found the parts at a swap meet over time and the build itself was rather easy. I have over 11 years of winter building in and the block signals are a matter that still needs attention. I have over time found that the quality of some parts has taken a down turn along with materials think liquid nails here. the old liquid nails from 8 to ten years ago holds excellent and the new fangled eco friendly stuff really is junk! so the question that still stands do model power block signals take nicely to wire extensions?
[Edited by Forum admin to remove implied profanity. Please don't use adult language, even disguised by abbreviations and dashes. Thanks.]
lion thanks that is a great idea ties and plastic sheaths from hardware stores. 2.has anybody had sucess with extra wire on block signals . I have 2 cross signals wired and working 4 track type. I am extending 2 model power block signals back to my control board and there wiring looks real thin and fragile so the question stands sucess or a disaster type and there 991,s g scale , I want succesful wiring with no glitches. 3 has anybody had good sucess with flip ups or down with pink insulation i need the track to line up exact with no derailments. I am thinking long screws and liquid tape,to cut down on shorting.
jfbthanks guys I used nails in the past and had no problems it seems strange now to not hold and the pressure makes anchored things move at the joints. I marked my wires and they are individual but the lay overlapping each other hence possible shorting inside the wire looms ,will this cause problems or not please note here from experience again. 3 on wires extended from signal bridges from model power have you had good or bad experiences with wire extensions that are solidely crimped not suit case connectors here they are iffy to use through my experience with them at my automotive job they rattle loose in time for real.
LION used nails to mout track to pink foam, and they told me it could not be done. Well, the nails will fall out eventually, maybe. But that was not my experience for more than seven years. But when I added reed switches to enervate my signals and magnets under the trains to activate the reed switches, I pulled out most of my nice nails. So I just put a bead of Elmer's glue down the middle of the track, with a special glob on the nails and perfection has been achieved.
AS FOR WIRING, allow me to introuduce you to
Before:
And After:
Your choice. Click here for the wiring manual for the Route of the Broadway LION.
Welcome to the forums.
I prefer latex caulk to hold down my roadbed and track. I think the problem most folks have lifting track is that they use too much caulk. A thin bead, spread so thin it is opaque is all I use. I don't usually use pins, but do hold the track down with cans of vegetables. I will say that to date I have only worked with sectional track, flex track may need pins to help hold the curve until the caulk sets. However, it has an immediate good grip without them.
Wiring I will leave to others.
Good luck,
Richard
For wiring I prefer telephone wire and (door) bell wire because they contain multiple wires, each a different color. This keeps things neater and easier to trouble shoot later. I use twist ties from plastic bags to keep wires together in a bundle. I run the wires straight towards the rear and then into the bundle which runs across the rear and connects to all the other devices.
Glue it down with acryiic caulk. I used T-pins on the edges to hold it down as I tested it. Then took it up put on the caulk and reset it into place with T-pins along the outside, tested one more time, straigtened ect. using Ribbonrail tools and then T-pined the center till the caulk dried, takes longer to explain than do, result, flawless trackwork.