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New to model trains.

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  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Central Vermont
  • 4,565 posts
Posted by cowman on Monday, December 14, 2015 7:50 PM

Welcome.

As mentioned a 4'x8' is limiting, but doable.  I have a 4'x6' which is even tighter, but it was what fit my original available space. 

Plenty of information on grades above, my track is level.  The one thing I do recommend is that you use a view block, so that your train goes somewhere.  I also suggest that it not be parallel to the side of your layout.  Even a slight angle seems to mask the divider better than straight.  It does not need to be in the center either.  Mine has one side larger than the other.  One side can be relatively complex town, industries or whatever, the other rural, small town (1 or 2 sidings), but your train has something to do when it's over there.  Though my trains have to be short, a passing siding on each side make it possible for a train to disappear, then another one appear where the first one just went, everyone expects the first train to appear at the other end.  To mask the ends of the view block you can use a thick grove of trees or a rock cut, as mine are.  Other ways to mask are bridges, going behind large buildings or into tunnels.

Have fun,

Richard

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Monday, December 14, 2015 3:48 PM

jlc41:

Welcome to the forums!!!     Welcome

4 x 8 means that your curves will be tight and your grades will be a bit steeper than is ideal, but lots of people have done it and enjoyed their work.

If you could stretch your layout out to 5' x 9' the extra foot each way will give you better curves and grades and more space in the middle for spurs and industries etc. Just remember that you will have to be able to get around all four sides of the layout to be able to fix derailments. You will not be able to reach the opposite side of the layout if it is tucked up against a wall. The same is true of a 4 x 8.

Great to have you aboard!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    September 2014
  • From: 10,430’ (3,179 m)
  • 2,310 posts
Posted by jjdamnit on Monday, December 14, 2015 3:11 PM

Hello All,

I too am restricted to a 4x8 pike.

For my coal unloading platform I needed to have an elevated section of track approximately 22-scale feet (3-inches actual).

To achieve this I used the Woodland Scenics 4% Incline/Decline set, available through WS direct, your Local Hobby Store (LHS) or through the internet.

The 4% set tops out at 4-inches actual (29-foot scale). As I said I only needed an elevation of 3-inches so I didn't use all the inclines.

To fit this incline on the 4x8 space I began the curved incline on one side of the 8-foot side. The curve consists of 18- & 22-inch sectional track, for an asymmetrical curve. This could have been achieved with flex-track as well. The top of the curve ends on the oppsite 8-foot side. 

For modelling and scenicing purposes the first third of the incline is a concrete viaduct supported by five graduated stone pillars. From there; at approximately 1-inch actual (7-foot 3-inches scale) I used the 4% inclines to get to the 3-inch actual elevation.

This incline meets the elevated track section supported by layers of 1/2-inch white Styrofoam and the coal unloading siding. Because of space limitations there is a 15-inch radius corkscrew connecting the other end of the elevated section to the lower mainline.

Because of the tight radius of these curves and the steepness of the 4% incline only a consist of GP30's can negotiate this section of trackage with the loaded hoppers; one GP30 at the head end and two GP30's as pushers.

Once the coal train, limited to eight 34-foot hoppers, reaches the unload platform the two pushers are cut loose and the single GP30 leads the empties down the corkscrew to the mainline. 

Many of the participants in these forums say what I'm doing should't or couldn't work...to them I say read my signature!

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Pa.
  • 3,361 posts
Posted by DigitalGriffin on Monday, December 14, 2015 2:40 PM

What selector said.

If you intend to have one track cross over another, you'll need a bare minimum of 3" clearance.  (3.5% is better) If I remember correctly on a 4x8, you'll have to do a figure 8 and that grade will be roughly 3%.

You'll be lucky to pull 1/4 of the same amount of cars as you did on a level layout.

Also given the nature of the sharp curves you'll be limited to 0-8-0's, 2-8-0's or 4 axel diesels.

But it is possible, and MRR created an excellent one called the virginian (look for the "virginian build thread")  It's not exactly a figure 8, but it offers options for future expansion and continous running.

And welcome to the hobby.  I think you will find it rewarding.

Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions

Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: South Jersey
  • 3 posts
Posted by jlc41 on Monday, December 14, 2015 12:59 PM

Thanks you for the replies. I will look into what was suggested.

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,330 posts
Posted by selector on Monday, December 14, 2015 10:49 AM

Welcome to this great hobby.

A 4X8 is a small space unless you are in N scale.  Even then it's not the largest area, especially when intending to have grades, or inclines, included in your track design.  Grades are the same in physics and in scale, and across scales.  Trains, whether models or in the real world, don't like to climb grades steeper than about 1%.  N. Americans, both sides of the Canada/US border, adopted 2.2% as a standard grade.  Such grades need many times the horsepower to maintain speed.  That's not a problem with our models; we have lots of power.  Turns out it is traction that is the limiting factor.  At some point your wheels will start to spin, wearing their surfaces prematurely.  And you won't get up the hill any faster.

Do, by all means, include grades if they won't rob you of fun when your locomotives can barely get up the grades towing not a single car.  That is in the 4% and up range for some small switcher engines.  But, my advice for a 4X8 is to go easy on the grades.  Keep them under 3% if at all possible.  Remember, you have to ease into the grade gradually, and that eats up track room.  At the top of the climb, you must also have an eased vertical curve.  With sharp curves on 4X8 layouts with steep climbs, you really cause your locomotives to work extra hard, provided they don't just spin and stall.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: North Dakota
  • 9,592 posts
Posted by BroadwayLion on Monday, December 14, 2015 9:41 AM

Welcome

LION had a 4x8 once when him was a little cub. Him had no elevations, but yes the woodland scenic product is about the best you can do for a layout like that.

More complicated you can do next year! Smile, Wink & Grin

Rest of layout on lynx below.

 

RAOR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

  • Member since
    April 2012
  • From: Denver, CO
  • 771 posts
Posted by middleman on Monday, December 14, 2015 9:33 AM

Welcome to the forums! Is this what you had in mind?:

http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/category/SubTerrainSystem

Mike

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: South Jersey
  • 3 posts
New to model trains.
Posted by jlc41 on Sunday, December 13, 2015 2:12 PM

Not sure if this is where I ask questions. I would like to start with a 4x8 layout. I have looked at many layouts. I like the idea of an elevated track. I found one design where they used foam blocks to get the a progressive incline. What I would like to know is where to buy these blocks.

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