Peter,
Thanks for this tutorial.
I am always amazed at the experience on this forum.
Chris
HO-VeloThe bags of Arizona Rock and Mineral HO ballast I purchased a couple years ago are 10oz. The above link has estimated coverages.
Thanks for the link. Not sure why I couldn't find it.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
carl425Nothing on the website tells me how much is in a bag or how much track it'll do.
http://www.rrscenery.com/?page_id=234
The bags of Arizona Rock and Mineral HO ballast I purchased a couple years ago are 10oz. The above link has estimated coverages.
Don't know about their going out of business, ordered and received some of their rip-rap a few weeks ago. Fifer Hobby and Caboose Hobbies stock Arizona Rock and Mineral products, as do some model railroad hobby shops.
Regards, Peter
bearmanI swear by Arizona Rock & minerals
I was reading some older posts as part of my research and found one from 2008 that said Arizona Rock & Mineral was going out of business.
I got a sample pack from them last week so I went about comparing the samples to some N&W photos online and found a good match for their slightly salt & pepper look. Looked up the color number on the sample at the website and was surprised to find the blend is called Norfolk Southern CSX Bright Gray.
Now I just need to figure out how much to order. It looks like the minimum $7.00 shipping gets me up to 3 $5 bags. Nothing on the website tells me how much is in a bag or how much track it'll do.
I've emailed them, but in the meantime anybody have any suggestions?
I swear by Arizona Rock & minerals.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
RDG1519,
Thanks. Yes, HO scale and a small ISL with grimy, heavy metal laden, dirty and coarse looking ballast right up my alley. The ballast and rock powders used are all Arizona Rock and Mineral products and possess a natural inconsistency in color and shape, which to my eye offers some nice contrast right out of the bag.
Ballasts used in the photo scene, NP gray. Powders, light gray, med. gray, industrial dirt, filthy gray industrial dirt and extra fine asphalt paving powder. Spreading and grooming done with small paint brushes of both coarse and fine bristle. Tamping done with the grain end of a small chunk of balsa wood.
First, HO scale ballast spread out and rough groomed, next random blending in of varying amounts of powders and tamping, then final touch-up grooming and random sprinkling of N scale ballast. Finish application up with very light and random sprinkling of asphalt powder, for extra grime concentrate some here and there and on a few of the ties. Also some various size and color sand, fine saw dust, etc. to simulate spilled lading.
There's bound to be less tedious methods, but in IMHO, especially in yards, sidings and spurs it is the hand blending of the varying colors and textures that ties it all together and makes it pop.
A couple other notes: When the glue mixture has dried a bit, (no longer soaking wet), is the time to plant debris around the right-of-way, boards, small bits of folded and crumpled brown paper bag and plastic bag, tissue paper, etc., carefully pressing these items into the still wet ballast and powders. (I think a little india ink wash on the brown paper bag bits gives them a nice look of weather beaten decaying cardboard).
After glue is completely dry I come back and brush some India ink/alcohol wash down the middle of the tracks, then for oil spills hit a few spots, mostly between the tracks with water thinned Mars black artists acrylic tube paint. Finishing up with a random brush application of a 20:1 wash of water and raw umber acrylic craft paint.
To help distinguish my short section of mainline applied a 2:1 mix of NP HO Scale Ballast and NP HO Scale Mainline Ballast with a tidier groom.
I've found (the hard way) that experimenting pays dividends. Samples are available, final appearance, color and hue are dependant upon lighting, glue mixtures and mfg. batch.
Good luck and good ballasting, regards, Peter
wazoo12345 I can't speak to the actual color and size of the ballast. What I can tell you, after having used both WS and Arizona Rock and Mineral ballast, is that real rock is much easier to apply than crushed shells. I started with WS and found it very challenging to apply a wetting agent and diluted glue without washing out the ballast, having it float, etc. Having watched Cody, the ballast king, Grivno apply ballast in a number of videos, I was starting to think that I was incompetent when it came to applying ballast, as I could not replicate his consistency with applying ballast, wet water, and diluted glue. Also, when I applied the wetting agent, with WS I could never tell where I had applied it and where I hadn't, as it doesn't seem to absorb alcohol. Using the real rock product, what a difference. You can see the wetting agent wick into the ballast, same with the glue. It holds its form extremely well, so you don't have to be an expert with a pipette. Suddenly my ability to apply ballast mimics what I have observed in Cody's videos. I am still nowhere near as good as him, but at least I get better and more consistent results. The only drawback is that the rock does change its color a bit when applying the diluted glue, which the WS product does not.
I can't speak to the actual color and size of the ballast. What I can tell you, after having used both WS and Arizona Rock and Mineral ballast, is that real rock is much easier to apply than crushed shells. I started with WS and found it very challenging to apply a wetting agent and diluted glue without washing out the ballast, having it float, etc. Having watched Cody, the ballast king, Grivno apply ballast in a number of videos, I was starting to think that I was incompetent when it came to applying ballast, as I could not replicate his consistency with applying ballast, wet water, and diluted glue. Also, when I applied the wetting agent, with WS I could never tell where I had applied it and where I hadn't, as it doesn't seem to absorb alcohol.
Using the real rock product, what a difference. You can see the wetting agent wick into the ballast, same with the glue. It holds its form extremely well, so you don't have to be an expert with a pipette. Suddenly my ability to apply ballast mimics what I have observed in Cody's videos. I am still nowhere near as good as him, but at least I get better and more consistent results. The only drawback is that the rock does change its color a bit when applying the diluted glue, which the WS product does not.
HO Velo,
Thanks for this picture. Is this HO scale? When you get a moment could you tell us how you blended this and which manufacturers if possible. This is just the look, color and texture that I am thinking of using. Thanks in advance, Chris
Sea Shells make a good ballast, or at least NYCT seems to use the stuff.
The Train Operator (T/O) [that is what they are called in NYC - *I* still call them motormen!], told me that the sea gulls pick up the shells and drop them on the tracks so that they can eat the little animal that lives inside of them.
BTW: Our train was stopped waithing for the bridge to close. The T/O says he has been stopped many times by the bridge, but has NEVER caught site of the boat that went through the bridge. Well, they do stop the train a long way from the bridge, and the channel does curve away from the bridge.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Thanks for the replies. I hadn't thought to look for a sample pack until it was mentioned above.
I just ordered a sample pack from Arizona Rock. I like ballast larger than exact scale so the texture is more pronounced. Their HO-Mainline size sounds interesting.
This used to be a lot easier before my LHS closed down. One of the owners was kind of a mentor for me in addition to being an N&W expert. All I had to do was tell him I needed ballast and he'd hand me a bag of the right stuff. If I wanted to build a Blue Box SD45 as an N&W unit he'd give me the right detail parts, an SD35 shell to cut the high hood from, the recipe for N&W blue and all the instruction I required to get started. Since he passed and the shop closed things have become more challenging.
I use light, fine WS gray ballast for the main and the dark for sidings and yard. The yard would show a bit more wear n' tear given that it's less maintained. Some combine the dark and light, but I prefer to keep the ballast more "uniform."
Much of the color depends on where and what you are trying to model.
I prefer real rock ballast, Arizona Rock and Mineral in particular. It pays to do some experimenting considering that ballast plays such a large scenic role. Some Mfgs have sample packs available.
A color that looks good in the store or in a photo can look much different under your layout lighting. Be aware that some ballast can change hue after gluing.
Proper size is in the eye of the beholder. Some mixing of size and addition of rock powders can IMHO produce some nice contrast.
Good luck and regards, Peter
TheK4Kid How much will the 1/2 gallon pail of #40 cover?
How much will the 1/2 gallon pail of #40 cover?
Tough one to answer since everyone's technique is a little different.
I would estimate that I've completed about sixty feet of double track and I have about 25% remaining in the jug.
YMMV
P.S., I personally have not had any problems with Highball brand ballast and I use many of their products. When I say "others" have commented about size and color variation I was relaying what reviewers said about it in reviews at some retail outlets.
Regards, Ed
I use Woodland Scenics and Scenery Express ballast.
I use black India ink mixed with wet water and dribble it on the ballast to remove the sheen and slightly darken the ballast.
Don't forget you can airbrush your ballast to the shade you want. Make it a little darker in between the rails where oil and greas accumilate on the prototype.
I like the WS stuff, works great but you need to wet water it well before you add the cement. To ballast I use a foam brush to brush over the track till the ballast goes where it needs to with liitle hand rubbing in the end, just to get rid of the strays. then I finish the sides with a bit more ballast by spoon. Last I use a fine nosel on a vacum (full size vacum and hobby sized crevece tool) and keep it pretty far back from the ballast but it will pick up the radom loose peices around, then wet water and deluted matt medium. Did a large yard in two to three hours this way, very fast and looks great, learning curve though!
LION use kitty litter. Buy big bag of litter, sift it through a window screen, have big bucket of ballast. Cats cannot tell the difference.
LION has been working with some of the smaller clumping litters, gotta be careful with those or you layout may smell like a rose. Funny blue and white cjhunks in it, gotta get one that is clear.
LION not use glue to hold ballast in place. Gravity does that. If LION want to wrok the roadbed, just push it out of the way. Doesnt stick to slopes of roadbed so well. Put glue there first and then sprinkle the ballast looks ok.
Hi,
I'm still doing occasional ballast work on my HO layout and have done some experimenting.
I've mostly used Woodland Scenic ballast, mixing in fine with medium and use a dark grey for sub mains and a lighter grey for mains. IMO, the only problem with WS ballast is it is too light (nut shells) and can get out of hand, bouncing all over the place. Ha, one grain of light grey ballast that lands on some green grass or shrubs is like a beacon!
I'm also using Highball ballast and while it is more costly, I do like it a lot. Being real "rock", it tends to be easier to control (for me anyway).
Color matching is pretty subjective. And, if you had ballast the exact color of your proto pic, it just might not look all that great on the layout. Lots of factors (lighting, reflection, size, etc.) can affect the result that you see.
All the major ballast mfgs have product in light/medium/dark greys, and I suggest you look up sample colors on the net to see which one looks best to you.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I have used Highball ballast for years and found the colors and granule sizes to be consistent. Nothing wrong with this stuff.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
Lots of folks here have their personal preferences for ballast types and techniques.
I much prefer natural stone ballast. I have not had satisfactory results with the "lightweight" ballasts or the ground rubber products.
My source for natural stone ballast is Scenic Express and they stock larger quantities (up to 25lb. sacks!)
http://www.sceneryexpress.com/Natural-Stone/products/1107/
In HO I use a #40 grade light gray limestone. You may prefer one of the blends but I'm careful not to get the "salt & pepper" looks that some of the blends offer.
You might want to make your own blend of shades of limestone gray to simulate what your photo shows.
I have heard positive reports of users of Arizona Rock & Mineral but I have no personal experience.
http://www.rrscenery.com/
Highball makes some nice ballast, too, but AFAIK the quantities are smaller bags and reviews are mixed as far as consistency of color and grade.
Have fun! Ed
Can anyone point me to a HO scale product that would be a match for this: