The January MR starts a series on building a 4 x 6 foot layout in HO with modern diesel power and DCC. You may want to try that out first simply for the practice.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
You are using Atlas software, correct? First off open up your plan with the software, click on “Tools“, then click “settings…”
When the window opens click on “Edit”.
Change “Minimum radius for Curve:” to User-defined (global) and type in either 18 (in) or 22 (in). 22 inch is highly recommended however 18 is ok if you plan on only using maximum 60 foot long cars and four axle diesel locomotives.
Now you can design your layout.
I would delete the spurs in the back section and use that only as a staging yard, which is an excellent design feature by the way. You might want to rework it so that the tracks are about the same length. It doesn't need to be hidden. Southern Pacific has a giant staging yard near me and they don't hide it.
I would get rid of sidings on the far right and leave only the mainline. Maybe your staging yard stretches over that direction so it can be longer.
I would make the siding in the front longer and make all of your industries turnouts from the mainline along that section. So basically that means your turnouts are backwards, the one that is a left should be a right and the one that is a right should be a left.
The siding always curves away from the main (on most turnouts). This is so high speed trains don't derail. You can make the turn at slower speeds if you are taking the siding because you are getting ready to stop anyway.
The spur is on the opposite side of the main line than the siding, so that you can switch the spur without blocking the main with the rest of your train, there by allowing other trains to pass. It also allows you to pull cars off of either end of the train.
Having your industries in the front keeps them in reach and allows you better access to them operationally.
No need for reverse loops or anything like that. Keep it simple.
Hope this helps.
Great points here too. Is there a good resource to research what industries were opporating at any particular era or location? I'm going to model a yard area in Fort Wayne, IN with a run down to Decatur...hadn't really nailed down a time period, but 80's to today is more my style. Thanks!
I can already see that I will need to make many changes. I was planning on rounding out the corners of the benchwork but didn't really know how to do that on the software I used for the draft (SCARM). I'm certainly seeing the plans from a different perspective since getting replies and am glad I posted here. You guys have all helped out a bunch already.
Thanks for the assist, Dave. My fathers love for the hobby is what's inspired me and he always worked HO, so that's my scale too. Unfortunately he passed in 89, and I'm only now starting my journey in the hobby.
Steve,
I'm not a magazine subscriber, so I can't view the layout but thanks just the same.
Mr. B and others point out some great points to consider. It appears that the freight yard is in a prominent position. While fun to watch trains leaving/entering there, best to shift the focus to operations and industries with longer siding tracks.
To determine your industries, consider grounding the layout in a part of the country in a timeframe. Mine is focused on rural southern VA during the 1980s. As such, I have coal, farming, and LPG represented. Knowing the industries can help guide your purchasing of freight cars, structures, and related scenery. Like you, I don't have much money to burn on this hobby (ok passion), so I want to focus on what's cost-effectively possible to capture on my 7x13 layout without anyone asking 'what is that doing there?'
12x13 seems like a lot of space but with HO you can fill it up fast. My plan is 13-1/2x14 so just a bit larger, but since it is in part of a finished basement room I have full access on one side of the area and half of another side which helps.
The experts here helped me a bunch with my track plan a couple of years ago and my best advice is to listen to what they say! I am about halfway through my build and it has gone very well so far- even with elevation changes my trains run flawlessly.
Already mentioned but worth repeating- designing access into the plan is critical especially if you want continuous operation (dog-bone style). You can do that by planning for access in the center of the turn-arounds as shown in the example. Also if you design the benchwork so that the edge flows along the outermost track instead of being square it will help maximize use of your space. A 2-1/2' reach is OK, and if you are tall like me 3' in spots is manageable. But anything beyond this would be a big problem. Also try to keep all turnouts within easy reach because those are usually the biggest trouble spots.
I'll leave advice on the actual track plan to the experts, except to say that S-curves should be avoided at all costs since they are notorious for causing derailments. An S-curve is when a train turns in one direction and then quickly turns in the other. Its easy to build S-curves into a plan if you are not careful, especially when linking turnouts together, and you have quite a few of them in your draft.
Good start! I went through at least 20 revisions before finally settling in on my plan
Huntington Junction - Freelance based on the B&O and C&O in coal country before the merger... doing it my way. Now working on phase 3. - Walt
For photos and more: http://www.wkhobbies.com/model-railroad/
Hi Steve:
The Appalachian Central is an N scale track plan. The OP wants to work in HO. However, given his layout space and the desire to run modern diesels, that may be difficult so perhaps he should be considering N scale.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
have you looked at the Appalachian Central. this was a layout built by model railroader and is similar to your plan shape and size and scale.
http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/track-plan-database/2007/08/appalachian-central
Steve
Texas Z,
I'm honestly not sure what the radius is but I do have the width at 3 feet. I certainly wasn't planning on having anything less than 22".
I've had some mention about the 3-ways too, so I'm working on something else for the update.
I'm glad you said something about the turnouts though because I was looking at it from a space issue on the layout and not from the loco perspective.
Thanks again for taking the time every reply has really helped out.
Tom the Goat.I could really use some expert advice here. This is a design I came up with for my first ever model railroad. This will be HO scale modern diesel freelance with DCC power.
1. Do some of those numbers on the curve say R13.8"? If that is the radius that is way too tight for HO scale. Modern diesel power and associated equipment would work better with a minimum closer to R22". Is this space only 3' wide? If so you will have to settle for the standard 18" radius.
2. I see three way turnouts. I would recommend avoiding that arrangement. Even experienced operators have trouble quickly changing tracks.
3. I see #4 turnouts. True #4 turnouts are not good for modern power. I would go a minimum of #4.75 (Atlas brand custome line), Peco small, or a true #5 like Walthers. Once again a minimum. Modern equipment is going to agree much better with #6 turnouts.
Over all, I say it is much better than most "first trys" I see.
You could get more "stuff" into the center and away from the edges if you made it into a lazy figure 8. Something like this:http://www.atlasrr.com/Code100web/pages/10016.htm
MisterBeasley,
Thank you for the honest assessment, and quality comments on my layout plans.
I invisioned this layout as a yard area with an engine house and repair area on either end of the yard and then a couple industries around the other areas. As this is my first layout I was looking to keep things to a minimum. I've got a lot to learn about laying track, wiring, and scenery so I figured I'd keep things simple.
After reading your comments I'll have to look into the staging and reversing loop, because I do want to enjoy it for a long time before having to move onto bigger and better layouts.
I've already been wondering what to do with that middle area, and after reading other reviews of my layout it looks like I may have designed it a bit too wide so that may be handled as I shorten the width a little.
Again thank you and I look forward to learning with everyone on this forum in the future.
As is always the case in my experience, Mr. B has some thoughtful points. A very common mistake is to make a plan too complicated such that it is nothing more than a spaghetti bowl of crammed track. You'll hate putting it together, and later you'll just hate it altogether.
Or, many of us make our track plans too simple, such as an oval or a figure 8 on a sheet of plywood. We'll dismantle it inside of six weeks.
A railroad has to earn money. They do that by moving materials for hire. What will your toy trains do for a living? They need industries with outputs. They also have to maintain their equipment and their right-of-way. Think snow removal. So, you should think about this and then build a plan that allows for some switching in a rudimentary yard, plus some spurs where cars can be left for loading and others already filled coupled to and taken to a yard for further processing or dispatch.
All that said, there is nothing wrong with starting out in small steps to learn how to put tracks together and to learn what mistakes not to make. Just go easy on your wallet until you know more. Once you are 'dialled-in" you can begin to pay for things with a singular focus that will be much more rewarding.
I have the width at 35 inches, but after hearing it more than once and seeing an example of a better design I'll be shortening that. Thanks for putting in your two scents...it helps a lot.
Thanks a lot for your advice on the width and the turnouts! That's exactly why I wanted to post it here in the hopes that more experienced modelers would catch those things. The layout that you added to your post really helps put it in perspective.
When I look at that plan, I see a roundy-round loop with a bunch of short sidings. While it's always fun to build and scenic a layout, you should also consider how to make it more operationally interesting.
The first thing to consider is staging. These are typically long tracks, often hidden from view, where you can position a full-sized train. When you're ready for it, bring it out on to the visible layout, have it do it's thing and then return.
You've got no provision for reversing a train or even a locomotive. Sooner or later, you'll see this as a major shortcoming, so consider some sort of reverse loop to turn things around. While turntables and roundhouses make nice scenic elements and can be used to turn a locomotive, they're not appropriate for your era. Sorry.
The middle of the space is under-utilized. That can be OK if you're looking for a mountain layout or even an urban one with lots of scenery, but think about how to incorporate that space into your track plan for more interest.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I will defer to others who are much better at layout design than I am, but the first question that comes to my mind is how wide are your shelves? Anything over 24 inches may become a major issue in the future.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
In order to post an image here, you need to URL of the photo (Right-click while viewing for Windows), then click on the icon that looks like a little mountain, then paste in the URL (which will end with ".jpg", ".gif", or similar)
Here's the result with your image
[Edit ... oops, there's apparently something funky with the file format in the forum software MR uses. Here's a try hosted on another server, Railimages]
Most folks have found that they canot reach more than 30" across a scenicked layout, and that will be an issue for you in the corner of the "L" -- and elsewhere if you cannot walk all the way around the layout.
The 3-way turnouts also create some potentially troublesome S-curves where the diverging route goes in the opposite direction of the curve that leads into the 3-way.
This 8'X10' HO layout design is for a smaller space and uses tighter radii than might be appropriate for the modern era, but note that it makes good use of the room by placing the layout against the walls and the people in the middle. That's often a good approach to try.
Depending on what the overall room looks like, something else might fit your space that would offer more operating and scenic interest. Posting a sketch of the overall space here might help others help you.
If this is your first layout design, some time studying a resource such as John Armstrong's Track Planning for Realistic Operation would likely be very helpful. Often it helps to think about what you'd like to see and do on your layout before starting with CAD.
Best of luck with your layout.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Keep trying to post the photo Tom.
But even without seeing it, my feeling has long been that for a very first layout there is no harm, and quite a bit of good, in using a layout from one of the many fine track plan books and magazines. Don't overlook the Atlas track plan books even if you do not use Atlas components.
Even if you come up with a brilliant plan on your own, it won't take long before you will think of so many things you'd like to do differently, or do over, that the first ever layout tends not to last all that long. Think about the ability to re-use track components, particularly turnouts and crossings, when you start in, for that very reason. Normally I advocate bullet proof track that is affixed to roadbed with caulk -- difficult to pull up and re-use -- but for a first layout I suggest a different attitude, although you certainly want your track to be reliable or the layout will be no fun.
Dave Nelson
Here's a look, Dave! http://cs.trains.com/mrr/m/mrr-layouts/2290559.aspx
Thanks for the assist! I posted it to the gallery here http://cs.trains.com/mrr/m/mrr-layouts/2290559.aspx
Sorry about the photo! If you go to the photo gallery it's there or check this link http://cs.trains.com/mrr/m/mrr-layouts/2290559.aspx. I'm 38, have my own home, and don't need to make it portable to answer your questions. I've got a 13x12 foot spare bedroom that I'm going to be using. This has been an interest of mine since I was young, but never had the space or the time to get one going. Any advice is much appreciated and thank you for responding even though I messed it up.
Tom
Hey Tom:
Welcome to the forums!!
Unfortunately your layout plan didn't show up in your post. Please try again.
see the How to Post a Photo to the Forums (http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/249194.aspx) thread and the Layout Vision web page
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
Goat? Tom the Goat. Meet LION, the Broadway LION. We simply have to have dinner together sometime!
It is always easy to work from a blank slate, less so to comment on a blank page. Did you try to post a picture. Sheck out Steve Otte's post on posting pictures.
How much space do you have to work with.
How old are you? Are you living with your parents? Are you renting? Do you need to make something portable?
We all lived with our parents once upon a time. Mom and Dad liked a clean house. LION CUB kept things untidy. LION is still untidy. LION can live with that, others cannot. Oh well, I must only please the LION. LION never made anything portable. Present Layout of him is 14 miles of track.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Hello all...I could really use some expert advice here. This is a design I came up with for my first ever model railroad. This will be HO scale modern diesel freelance with DCC power. Please feel free to comment or ask any questions. Thanks in advance! Tom