Opinions on mounting LED strip lights for layout lighting?

[rrinker]

mlehman

 

rrinker

I may have to build my own controllers for the RGB sets and use an Arduino or something though, the inexpensive set I got has a remote control but it doesn;t allow full access to each color - there are only 8 levels provided for each color and the steps are very noticeable. Even with the coarse control, it's evident that with a finer step level it would do a very nice job generating that dim reddish glow and then brightening to full daylight,

 

 

Randy,

Keep searching for controllers. There are commericially available ones that provide finer control. My understanding is that they are all pretty much the same form of output, although power ratings may vary. You should be able to sub a better one for a coarse one.

OK, found some pretty quick. Nice selection here, including wall controls and wifi ones, which should nest neatly when using WiThrottle or similar apps to access JMRI. Might even be able to do it within JMRI, especially as the LCC standard is integrated into it.

http://www.theledlight.com/rgbcolor-controllers.html

Of course, that search turned up instructions on doing it with an Arduino, too.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Controlling-an-RGB-Led-with-Arduino-and-Processing/

Probably something that will work no matter what your comfort level is with computers.

 

 My comfort level with computers?   One of the reasons I'd want to do my own controller with an Arduino would be to integrate the lighting into the rest of the control system like the fast clock so they day/night cycle can happen automatically while operating. Of course that leads to adding control for structure lighting as well... The links are useful - I know the basics of how the controlelrs work and what sort of components I need, but rather than draw upon extremely rusty knowledge of circuit design I'd rather just get component values from someone who already did it.

                      --Randy

[DigitalGriffin]

There are several methods to hold up the lights

1) Zip Ties to the mountain board

2) Broad stables and a staple gun which are wider then the LED strip (A little risky as you might puncture a circuit trace...Ask me how I know. *cringe*

3)  Glue them in place.  Instant adhesive works well, but can be messy and hard to control the application.  I laid down some painters tape to create a mask about the width of the LED strip and sprayed it down.

4) 3M double sided industrial strength tape actually works pretty darn well too.  It's kind of thick and spongy and holds surprisingly well.  But it's hard to find.

5) Hot glue them down.

 

Now you have your choice :-)

 

Now as to the LEDs and placement, I give you two things to think about

 

1) Since you are directing light from front->rear, there's a possibility you will create hard shadows on a backdrop which could ruin the illusion of depth.  Some people counteract this by dropping a row of lights at the very back broadcasting up from the bottom (perfect for mountains to create a horizon glow effect) or from the top down.  (Works for reducing shadows but it's less effective the further you get from the light source.)  So you'll have a softer shadow not a hard one.

2 Before you buy look at the CRI index and color temp of the LED strips.  The Quality of LED strips varies GREATLY.  The spectrum on cheap LEDs tends to be "peaky"  What this means is that certain paint colors will not show up as brightly as others causing the color to appear off.  High CRI > 90 levels out these peaks creating a more sunlike or incandecent color rendering.  These are typically used as photographic light sources.  And they can be costly.  At the very least find a LED strip that has a CRI of 80.  Since a LED strip can last you 20 years, factor that into your cost and just don't go for the cheapest.

Links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_CRI_LED_lighting

http://www.flexfireleds.com/high-cri-93-series-ultrabright-led-strip-light-by-the-foot-natural-white/

 

[fisherdm]

In regards to question 2; I've used LED strip lighting in some areas of my layout. I just applied them to the substrate. Where the built-in adhesive failed (and it did), I reattached them by applying some Walther's Goo to the strip. None of the reattached sections have come loose again.

[CajonTim]

Onewolf,

I just used the 1"x2" furring strips and they work fine.  I used a drop of CA about every six to twelve inches along the LED strip and haven't had any drooping problems.  I like your idea about the 2nd strip near the back edge to avoid shadows on the back drop.  I will give it a try.

Tim

[mlehman]

riogrande5761

I find the rows of little bright points of light to be distracting to look at - too much like Christmas lights or something.

Valences will solve that for the most part. If you have accent lighting of any type, you almost have to have valances anyway, though.

I've found it's not an issue for me, since I'm tall, the ceiling is low, like 4" above my head, so tend to not be looking at the ceiling.

And the LEDs don't need much valance to hide them (the 1x2s I use work really well), compared to the ~6" you need for many track lights. That wouldn't work for me, as my head would be interacting with the valence

 

[mlehman]

rrebell

The only thing wrong with LED strips is the lights can fail.

True.

Some of my early ones have shown to be rather inferior in build quality. I've had some success in repairing them, but the fundamental lesson is buy a quality product. It's harder than it seems, but won't likely cost more. I think QC is getting better.

More importantly, basically the same product has been substantially improved since I started buying it. Menards is using a different brand name on them, but the product seems the be basically the same outside. Inside, the LEDs, wire, and other components are much better. I've only had one of the improved ones fail, which is how I discovered this.

Keep in mind that life times quoted are averages. When you have literally thousands of them, some will fail before 10,000 hours or whatever they cite. There's the temptation to leave them on a lot, too, which you should fight even though they are far more efficient.

I will note that whatever life time in hours was quoted, my failures have all been past the one year guarantee, so no claim there, but also to that extent did give at least the guaranteed service. That's also the reason I repair them, rather than sending back. And I did leave them on a lot at first, so could've got much longer service had I not been so profligate.

[riogrande5761]

The only way I think I could use those kinds of LED lights would be if there was a valence or something to block direct view of them.  I find the rows of little bright points of light to be distracting to look at - too much like Christmas lights or something.  I am thinking of using LED lighting to add to my layout room, but with frosted bulbs to diffuse the light points to mute that thousand points of light look.

[rrebell]

The only thing wrong with LED strips is the lights can fail. I know they are sopposed to last as long as your preceved use here but have seen them fail just the same after a short time on occasion, just saying to plan on replacement in your mounting efforts.

[mlehman]

rrinker

I may have to build my own controllers for the RGB sets and use an Arduino or something though, the inexpensive set I got has a remote control but it doesn;t allow full access to each color - there are only 8 levels provided for each color and the steps are very noticeable. Even with the coarse control, it's evident that with a finer step level it would do a very nice job generating that dim reddish glow and then brightening to full daylight,

Randy,

Keep searching for controllers. There are commericially available ones that provide finer control. My understanding is that they are all pretty much the same form of output, although power ratings may vary. You should be able to sub a better one for a coarse one.

OK, found some pretty quick. Nice selection here, including wall controls and wifi ones, which should nest neatly when using WiThrottle or similar apps to access JMRI. Might even be able to do it within JMRI, especially as the LCC standard is integrated into it.

http://www.theledlight.com/rgbcolor-controllers.html

Of course, that search turned up instructions on doing it with an Arduino, too.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Controlling-an-RGB-Led-with-Arduino-and-Processing/

Probably something that will work no matter what your comfort level is with computers.

[rrinker]

 The aluminum also helps as a heat sink. We tend to think of LEDs as not generating much heat, but not much <> none - I picked up a reel of 5050 RGB LEDs and a) wow are they bright and b) after they've been on full brightness for a while they are more than a little warm to the touch. I intend to light my layout with these strips as well, still cooler and less power than any other option. I plan to have a couple rows of white plus a row of RGBs so I can do sunrise/sunset and night effects - I may have to build my own controllers for the RGB sets and use an Arduino or something though, the inexpensive set I got has a remote control but it doesn;t allow full access to each color - there are only 8 levels provided for each color and the steps are very noticeable. Even with the coarse control, it's evident that with a finer step level it would do a very nice job generating that dim reddish glow and then brightening to full daylight,

              --Randy

 

[carl425]

Take a look at David Popp's video on lighting the Olympia logging project.  He ended up with 3 rows of LED's to light about the same shelf depth and height you have.

Even if you stick with 2 rows, I would put one of them close to the backdrop.  We all have our pet peeves, and I have more than my fair share, but I'm bothered by shadows on the backdrop.  Having lights close to the backdrop minimizes these shadows.

It's clear from your posts to date that you are not deterred by millwork, but I wouldn't put all that effort into ripping those strips at a 45 degree angle.  Just mount them flat and put a valance in front of each row that prevents light from going past the front edge of the layout.  Paint the back of it white to reflect the light that would be wasted.  This will also provide some diffused light that will help eliminate unwanted shadows.

[middleman]

I use the LED strips on my lower level On3 area. I agree that the adhesive is very poor,but if you sealed the wood with a white or light colored gloss paint,I think a quality double sided tape would hold the strips well.'Might be worth a short test length,anyway.

Just as a different idea,I used 1"x1" aluminum angle. It's highly reflective,and smooth enough that even the lousy adhesive backing sticks well.

Or... You could use flat aluminum strip mounted at a 45 degree angle on blocks,or just screwed or glued to the face of the angled wood. My LED strips have been up for over a year,and the cheap backing shows no signs of coming loose.

[mlehman]

For the lumber, find 1x2 lumber, which is often considered a lath. You may have to pick through them to get good straight ones, but they're just about ideal size. I wouldn't bother making up L's from them unless you need the angle to hide the lighting from the aisle view.

Yes, do NOT depend on adhesives for mounting.  The plastic clips are best, as they spread any pressure on the light strip evenly, but I've also used ty-wraps . Just don't cinch them tight and they work well. Use wider ones instead of narrow ones.

I recommend keep the light strips on separate boards. Depending on the depth of the scene, you'll find it easier to get even coverage that way.

I use a form of light strips that are encased in plastic, looking something like a power cord. These are sturdy enough they can simply be ty-wrapped to the structure above or the grids of recessed lighting. For the more common style that is "naked" you do probably need the support you envision. However, it's harder to make curves, so consider how you'll deal with those.

You can see both my methods combined in this pic, although it's not the best example. The scene is rather deep, so from some angles the back LED strips are rather more visible than typical.

 This one is more typical with just a single pass through the scene.

[Onewolf]

I plan to use LED strip lights to light a significant portion of my new layout.  The layout is a mushroom design with 3 levels. I plan to light the lower and middle levels using the LED strip lights. Each strip is 5 meters (about 16 ft) long. I plan to use 2 parallel LED light strips mounted to the bottom of the benchwork of the level above.  Lighting the lower/middle levels will require approximately 30 of these 16ft light strips (240 linear feet * 2 = 480 linear feet of strip lighting). The LED strip lights have some sort of weak adhesive on the back side but it is not nearly sufficient to mount the lights for the long term.  My current plan is to rip 8 ft long 2xN lumber into 1.5" x 1.5" x 2.1" triangular pieces and then mount the 2 parallel LED light strips to the 2.1" wide face (which will sit at a 45 degree angle facing in towards the layout). The LEDs claim to have 120 degree dispersion. The 2 parallel light strips will be on different control circuits so I can turn on one or both light strips.

Question #1) Is there a better mounting method than ripping 2xNs (2xWhatevers) to produce 1.5”x1.5”x2.1” mounting pieces?

Question #2) What's the best way to mount the LED light strips to the 1.5x1.5x2.1 boards?  I bought some “Silicon Clips” for mounting 10mm LED strips but they are translucent white and they light up noticeably/annoyingly when the LED lights are on. They also require 2 screws per clip and it looks like I would need a clip about every 3-4 inches so that would be 1440-1920 clips to install.

Renderings of what I am considering:

 

 

 

I could mount the parallel light strips farther apart.  This would be fairly easy for lighting the middle level because there aren't any obstructions under the top level benchwork, but it would be much more challenging to light the lower level this way because the 1.5x1.5 wood pieces would have to fit between the shelf support brackets (16"-24" OC).