I've been building my current layout new for about 5 years. I'm moving into a new house. It doesn't have a basement (like my current layout), but I will use the master bedroom. The room is 11' x 13'. About the same as the main room layout.
HO Scale Peco code 83Min radius 34"
Its gonna be around the walls with a penisula. I was planning on using a lower level for staging. But that just seems like too much trouble. So I will have a visible staging tracks, and use a viewblock with a backdrop on the peninsula to seperate it from the ethanol plant.
I'm cutting chunks out of the current benchwork. So I will be re-using some this for the new layout. Also this layout I'm going a little higher, like chest hieight. Instead of waist hieght.
I'm moving next weekend. Been deconstructing the layout now for the last 2 months. I still have a lot of wood and pink foam left over.
I started working on the design. I need feedback, suggestions, etc. One delima I'm having right now is the passenger depot. I don't have enough room for the 4 track train shed. Any suggestions where to put it?
Here's the plan so far.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Your drawing is not to scale, it show one wall twice as long as other. Give us room dimentions and opening dementions.
Skip the peninsula in the middle and concentrate on an aorund-the-walls layout.
Rich
Alton Junction
I'll be the contrarian. That's about the size of my previous layout space (after you subtracted for having to keep the one side away from the wall because of the sloped ceiling). I had one side 2 feet wide where my yard was, the opposite wall was 18" wide, and the penninsula was planned at 18" wide, which left the aisles at 3 feet each, plenty.
34" radius curves somewhat cramp the possibilities in a smaller space. You mnay have to cut down what you model by a great deal. A shorter length passenger terminal, with shorter trains, on the penninsula and supporting trackage around the walls, rather than trying to simulate and entire railroad. Most other switching, besides the passenger trains and RPOs would be company service cars bringing supplies to the commissary and so forth, so you'd be mostly giving up freight operation. Or take a completely different tack and cut the curves down to 26-27" and ditch the passenger trains and go freight.
My room size layout modeled a specific freight branch, somewhat in detail although all tracks were not exactly arranged as per the prototype.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
If you're going to have a reverse loop with a bit of a tight radius (for a modern layout with longer cars) I prefer to have the turntable located in the middle of the loop as well as the station nearby. I'd put the turntable and station on the north wall and the flood loader and sand transfer facility along the south wall, and reconfigure the tracks a little.
- Douglas
Tradeoffs can be hard.
Is the return loop important enough in your scheme of things to justify the space devoted to it? I say that as someone who has 4 turntables, 4 wyes (when the last one has track laid on it, anyway), and 2 loops on my narrowgauge, but only a single loop on my standard gauge. And the SG loop isn't used a a loop, but rather as a double-ended industrial siding now.
I do my SG turning in staging as needed and found little need for it then. Motive power gets turned from time to time by hand, mostly, along with some passenger trains.
That could be space for your Union Station.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I had no idea my demension were off so bad, geeeezus!
I'm using Anyrail for the first time, and I just figured out how to enable the size and gride demensions. I was using Atlas RTS before.
Sooooooo, now that I have the correct demensions, with the 12" grid line enabled.
I can still fit the peninsula in there, and still maintain the curves. The Mountain loop will be 32" radius.
I even found a place to add the diesel house next to the turntable.The diesel house is three tracks, and I can just go straight through to the turntable.
Also more imporantly, I found a better spot for Cheyenne Depot Station and the train shed.
I can deal with the tight widths, I'm skinny guy.
Might work? What y'all think?
I think the space is a challenge for fitting in everything you want to do. The peninsula makes entering the room a very tight squeeze.
I know that you like to photograph long trains, and have some nice mountain scenes on your backdrops (I hope you saved them). IIRC, you also have a nice collection of locomotives.
I really think the mountain loop takes up too much space. You'll probably want a reversing loop to turn trains to head around the other direction, so I'm suggesting that you keep the loop and I'll stick with with my suggestion of putting the turntable in there and make the entire north wall a yard scene.
Hopefully, your backdrops and some creative scenery will make the east and south walls a more rural mountain scene.
You might try originating the peninsula from the east wall and making it shorter. It will give you more space near the door for popping up into the room.
Yes, much better rendering of what space is there.
Got two suggestions. I agree with doughless on relocating the TT/shop to inside the loop if the loop is a keeper. It could go between the access hatch and the aisleinside the loop. You can push the access hatch back toward the upper left corner. One option is to conceal that under a mountain as a liftout.
Know you were leaning away from more than one deck, but here's a suggestion. I also think the aisles are on the narrow side. I used to be a skinny guy, but things change
I tend to think you'll be happier in there if the aisles are wider. I suggest double-decking the penisula while making it narrower. Staging can be on the bottom deck, accessed by a ramp the curves up toward where it currently follows, along the top wall, then surfaces near the upper right corner to connect along the right wall whever is most appropriate.. The track that is currently along the top wall may have to be shifted forward 3" to accomodate the last part at the top of the grade.
That way you could make the entire top level of the penisula dedicated to a single industry, or put one industry on each side of a view block on it.
Thanks for all the feedback guys, I really appreciate the help.
Yes I have all the mountain backdrops, easy to remove. The mountain loop, coal mine, coal flood loader all co-inside together. So I want to keep it that way.
The Ethanol Plant is a large facilty. I was never able to build on my old layout. So I need room for all the buildings. I will add a back drop in between the 2 staging tracks, and the ethanol plant, for a viewblock.
Michael, let me offer a suggestion.
You love to run long passenger trains over long stretches and you do it well.
You also love freight operations and servicing industries, the coal mine, the coal flood loader, and the ethanol plant, and you do it well.
Given the constraints of an 11' x 13' room, you need to build a 2-level layout, one level for passenger operations and one level for freight operations.
No need for a helix or lengthy grade change. Just operate each level independently. Just think of the space that you could devote to each type of operation.
In my opinion, the 2-level around the wall layout, with no peninsula, and no helix or grade change, is the clear winner.
Think about it. Plenty of open interior space to maneuver.
I think around the walls is the only way to go of course, in that space. I have a basement room of 10x18 feet and thats what I did, but no penninsula - just decided around the walls only and my minimum radius is 32-inches for long rolling stock. Looks like you've done about as much with the space as can be managed.
Two levels suggested by Rich is intriguing. I actually have two levels in my 10x18 foot space but in my case I put an 11 track staging/storage yard under a main yard on the bottom level, and the other side of the room has 2.9% grades up to the main level is all. But Motley's has more switching - only switching on my layout is off the main yard.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
Well I just tried to use the peninsula on the right side. And it won't work. Then there's no room for the river/bridge scene. (which is my favorite scene by the way).
Another issue now I'm having. Is the reverse loop. Right now its a one way reverse loop. There's no way now to get the trains to run counter-clockwise. What do I do now?
MotleyThere's no way now to get the trains to run counter-clockwise. What do I do now?
Can you fit a full double cross-over in the upper right area where the single cross-over starts to lead into the loop?
mlehman Motley There's no way now to get the trains to run counter-clockwise. What do I do now? Can you fit a full double cross-over in the upper right area where the single cross-over starts to lead into the loop?
Motley There's no way now to get the trains to run counter-clockwise. What do I do now?
I'll admit up front I have little experience designing. Seems to me, though, that if you want to turn whole trains around to run counterclockwise you need another loop somewhere, and space-wise it would make the most sense to put it directly above or beneath the existing one. Maybe you could keep the leads to staging and the ethanol plant attached where they are (to the existing loop), drop the grade slightly across the layout so you have enough clearance, and extend the main past the sand frac facility into a second reverse loop, directly underneath the first.
That said, I find Rich's separate two-level (two-layout?) idea quite attractive.
P
If running clockwise, stop and then back through the loop from the turnout connecting it and the main at the top of the left side. Go through the double cross-over and suddenly your're facing counter clockwise.
Now that I think of it, where you had it as a single-cross-over would've worked that way, too, so I over-thunk that one a bit
The double-X-over gives you more route options, though.
MotleyAnother issue now I'm having. Is the reverse loop. Right now its a one way reverse loop. There's no way now to get the trains to run counter-clockwise. What do I do now?
Don't need reverse loops. Unhook engine and rehook to other end of train.
Or instead of two reverse loops make the peninsula the third leg of a wye. Pull into the peninsule from any direction back out in any direction.
Steve
MotleyI'm still confused about how to get trains to run counter-clockwise?
Is the reverse loop hidden or visible track?
Remember that there are really two standards for minimum radius for any length equipment. There is the minimum where the models don't look like toys on the track, and the minimum where the models will run without problems. Most stuff will run on a much tighter curve than looks good. If the loop is hidden, you can use the difference to your advantage.
You could put a 24-26" radius hidden reverse loop under your ethanol plant on the peninsula and attach it to the around the room oval with a wye. This would also help your access issue in the back left corner and may also give you the opportunity to attach to the right side with the river scene on the left.
Your radii On your drawing do not look like 34" minimums.
mlehman If running clockwise, stop and then back through the loop from the turnout connecting it and the main at the top of the left side. Go through the double cross-over and suddenly your're facing counter clockwise. Now that I think of it, where you had it as a single-cross-over would've worked that way, too, so I over-thunk that one a bit The double-X-over gives you more route options, though.
AHA!!!!!!! Nice, I have no idea why I kept looking at it running tains in my head, and couldn't figure it out.
Heck, maybe I'll just go with the double-crossover anyways. Like you said, easier to navigate the routes.
As far as the DCC auto-reverser, will I have any issues trying to issolate the track? Where do you reccomend I put the gaps? Before, or after the crossover?
Choops Your radii On your drawing do not look like 34" minimums.
Double deck the layout, using the nolix concept to gain the height around the room. It doesn;t even have to be a full double deck, but really just enough to stack 2 loops on top of each other. You wouldn;t have a continuous run in oen direction around the room, but running loop to loop you would still have the ability to have a train continuously circulate with no intervention (if using autoreversers for the loops). Definitely keep teh loops stacked, you don;t have room for two such large loops each taking up their own chunk of space, so make one big space eater serve a double purpose. With a true double deck design you would circle the room twice. Put the deep bridge scene diagonal for one level outside fo the loop, one of the levels crosses the bridge, the other level is hidden behind the falls and river. Staging at each end woudl extend off the loops, above the top level on one side and below the lower level at the other end.
MotleyYa I had to comprimise. They are closer to 32" now.
When I draw your reverse loop in cad 32"r the bench work ends about 6.5 feet from the left wall.
I'm using Peco track/switches. With their Peco switch machines. I see the Peco doesn't have the double-crossover. Only Walthers does?
Is there a way to "retro-fit" the Peco switch machine onto the Walthers switches? The attach underneath, and the pins are inserted into holes into the sliding part of the tie.
Motley Another issue now I'm having. Is the reverse loop. Right now its a one way reverse loop. There's no way now to get the trains to run counter-clockwise. What do I do now?
I noticed that right away, but as Mike noted, you could back the trains into the reverse loop to get them facing the other way.
Or, another thing you could do is use the same space as the first reverse loop is add a second reverse loop by ramping down below or up above, to a second reverse level, where the other reverse loop could enter from the opposite direction in the same lobe of benwork. Technically that way you could run trains from one reverse loop to another and back.
I had a layout like that, my first garage layout although in the track scematic I had enough distance to fit a full yard some single track, and a passing siding inbetween the reverse loops. I actually sold that layout sans scenery to a guy up near Kokomo or Peru Indiana - I assume he finished it - it had modular benchwork so it could be disassembled, put in a U-haul truck and bolted back together - of course the track would need to be fitted back in across the joints but thats small potatos compared to building a layout from scratch!
Choops Motley Ya I had to comprimise. They are closer to 32" now. When I draw your reverse loop in cad 32"r the bench work ends about 6.5 feet from the left wall. Steve
Motley Ya I had to comprimise. They are closer to 32" now.
MotleyAs far as the DCC auto-reverser, will I have any issues trying to issolate the track? Where do you reccomend I put the gaps? Before, or after the crossover?
I would make the auto-reversing section the track between the top turnout on the left wall that enters the loop section to the right until the turnout to the shop/TT lead. If that's not longer than your longest train, then extend it towards the double crossover as needed (in one or both directions along the loop) and move the gaps to suit.