owen w in california JE: I model the NYOW (proto-freelance) in N Scale. My research revealed that much of the railroad was ballasted with Culm - fine-grained waste from anthracite coal mining. I use a combination of black and grey fine ballast. There are a couple of O&W books that are in color (NYOW In the Diesel Age, is one, I think). Also, there is a lot of information available to members of the NYOW Historical Society (google it), also check out the O&W facebook page. Joel
JE: I model the NYOW (proto-freelance) in N Scale. My research revealed that much of the railroad was ballasted with Culm - fine-grained waste from anthracite coal mining. I use a combination of black and grey fine ballast. There are a couple of O&W books that are in color (NYOW In the Diesel Age, is one, I think). Also, there is a lot of information available to members of the NYOW Historical Society (google it), also check out the O&W facebook page.
Joel
I was thinking along those same lines but am considering using both dark and light gray ballast along with the black and throw in a little dirt and weeds as well.
I have the color book of NYOW diesels. I don't have it in front of me right now so I'm not sure where the photo was taken but there is one in which the grass is so high not only can't you see the ties, you can't even see the rails. It looks like the train took a wrong turn and ended up in somebody's back yard. I've got another B&W book from all eras and at the end of one of the minor branches the yard tracks are also in tall grass. I think I want to duplicate that look at the end of my branch.
Ditto here for using two different colors of ballast for the track--light for the main and dark for sidings. I also put in some low weeds or grass at the end of a few less-used tracks. The sidings are used, but not to the end of the track.
Making sidings appear less uniform is quite eye catching. I also space the ME track ties to create less uniformity and further show less care than on the main.
dknelson There are four basic tasks for ballast -- holding the track level without too much compression or pumping, holding the ties in place to maintain gauge, drainage, and weed suppression -- and cinders do a good job of all four when fresh, although not as good a job as rock. Back in steam days when cinders were plentiful and cheap/free, they would also be replenished fairly often - the railroads needed to get rid of the stuff -- and on a branch line or siding that saw meaningful traffic the cinder ballast would be replenished on a schedule. When steam went so did most of the free cinders and that by coincidence was also the start of the deferred maintenance era, and the decrease in importance of many branchlines as well. If a branchline's cinder ballast was allowed to get too old then over time all four goals for ballast would start to fail. But I can tell you that even just a couple of years ago an abandoned siding in my old home town still showed signs of its old cinder ballast, undoubtedly applied 60 or more years earlier, and it was doing a fairly decent job of preventing weed growth - but starting to really fail at it. I recall seeing a branch line ballasted in what looked like foundry slag. Again, cheap/free. It was crumbling by the time I saw it, and was partly dirt and partly slag; the track was undulating and weeds were growing, so that ballast was starting to fail big time. The ROW in Lion's video clearly has plenty of dirt mixed in with the ballast. If ballast is not renewed over time the track starts to flex, pumping up mud when drainage fails, and it is a viscious cycle that replaces ballast with dirt. Vegetation decays, becomes dirt itself over time, and the cycle goes on. If you can find a track chart for your prototype and era it might say what kind of base and ballast was used. My point (I do have one) is that "branch line" does not necesssarily equal pathetic track and ballast. it can but not necessarily. Dave Nelson
There are four basic tasks for ballast -- holding the track level without too much compression or pumping, holding the ties in place to maintain gauge, drainage, and weed suppression -- and cinders do a good job of all four when fresh, although not as good a job as rock.
Back in steam days when cinders were plentiful and cheap/free, they would also be replenished fairly often - the railroads needed to get rid of the stuff -- and on a branch line or siding that saw meaningful traffic the cinder ballast would be replenished on a schedule. When steam went so did most of the free cinders and that by coincidence was also the start of the deferred maintenance era, and the decrease in importance of many branchlines as well.
If a branchline's cinder ballast was allowed to get too old then over time all four goals for ballast would start to fail. But I can tell you that even just a couple of years ago an abandoned siding in my old home town still showed signs of its old cinder ballast, undoubtedly applied 60 or more years earlier, and it was doing a fairly decent job of preventing weed growth - but starting to really fail at it.
I recall seeing a branch line ballasted in what looked like foundry slag. Again, cheap/free. It was crumbling by the time I saw it, and was partly dirt and partly slag; the track was undulating and weeds were growing, so that ballast was starting to fail big time.
The ROW in Lion's video clearly has plenty of dirt mixed in with the ballast. If ballast is not renewed over time the track starts to flex, pumping up mud when drainage fails, and it is a viscious cycle that replaces ballast with dirt. Vegetation decays, becomes dirt itself over time, and the cycle goes on.
If you can find a track chart for your prototype and era it might say what kind of base and ballast was used.
My point (I do have one) is that "branch line" does not necesssarily equal pathetic track and ballast. it can but not necessarily.
Dave Nelson
Good information, Dave. My railroad is freelanced although much of the inspiration comes from the NYO&W. I probably would have modeled that road but I wanted to run steam and diesel in the 1950s and the NYO&W had completely dieselized by then. Also I wanted to run lots of passenger trains and the NYO&W was a freight only carrier in its final years. I think of my railroad as a composite of a number of the roads that served northern New Jersey and the southern tier of New York.
I'm trying for a middle of the road look as far as the track condition goes. I don't want it too pristine but I don't want the other extreme either. I will probably go for the neglected look on a few of the spurs.
HObbyguy It came from Backdropwarehouse and it is a combination of the Elkins WV photo group.
Thanks Walt!
If you ever visit my layout you may experience a deja view moment.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
carl425I like the backdrop in your signature picture. Is it a photo you created yourself or one that is available commercially? If you bought it, which one is it?
Here is a pic showing most of the backdrop shortly after I installed it two years ago. It came from Backdropwarehouse and it is a combination of the Elkins WV photo group. It cost me around $500 but that was for a continuous 36' long backdrop. No regrets. The view in my signature is against the right hand wall.
Huntington Junction - Freelance based on the B&O and C&O in coal country before the merger... doing it my way. Now working on phase 3. - Walt
For photos and more: http://www.wkhobbies.com/model-railroad/
Hi Walt,
I like the backdrop in your signature picture. Is it a photo you created yourself or one that is available commercially? If you bought it, which one is it?
Its good to be back
Nice work, Walt.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Hey I have one of those sort of sidings. I glued the track directly on the foam board and added some natural "stones" to the ballast, painted the rails rust and planted vegetation between the ties. The siding ends with heavy grass and weeds growing through them. Like most of my layout I still have work to do here to complete the scene- I at least need to get around to putting the tin on the roof of the building.
I wouldn't drive a nice loco down this sort of track, but no problems putting cars on it even where the grass gets thick.
Tom and the others' cautions about getting too much vegetation in the way are well-taken. Having just dug some of the evil foam out of one of my Katos and a GE 70 tonner to boot, I'll testify to that. The 70 tonner is just asking for it, as the conversion to HOn3 loses the bottom cover on the trucks, so it hoovers up anything loose in its path.
On the other hand, this doesn't preclude adding a few strategic stems/weeds between the rail on spurs to keep cars from rolling off spot, at least until they come out with DCC-enabled hand brakes on rolling stock. I have those in a number of spots, but they're glued down. Usually, these should only be on spurs and sidings, not on main track.
A lot of lines --- especially secondary lines -- did not use stone ballast at all. In areas where coal was burned, cinders were plentiful, and were often used as ballast. Cinders actually provided a very solid base on which to build a railroad. Since secondary lines weren't maintained as meticulously as main lines, weeds could often be seen growing up between the ties. If you "plant" fibers to resemble weeds, do your best to keep them short enough to avoid snagging coupler trip pins. When these weeds are glued in place on a model railroad, a few snags are almost inevitable. Within a few weeks of operation you'll discover these snags and clip them short with an X Acto or a pair of scissors. From then on, operation should be trouble-free.
Tom
In some places no roadbed may be appropiate to achieve your results as pictured
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
BroadwayLion Here is your branch line. branches and all! ROAR
Here is your branch line. branches and all!
ROAR
Excellent reference material Lion. A little weedier than I had in mind but I can scale that back a bit. Thank you.
Hi jecorbet
Well my current railroad is a Light Railway (UK light railways act)
OK good start low cork my line would also see very light traffic and would be load limited as well.
For ballast with a weedy look I used woodland scenics burnt grass fine turf and cinder ballast mixed together vari your mix as you go along this will give a natural look to the weeds in the ballast later you can add a little Noch summer grass along the edges for new growth.
Just use the mix as if you where laying normal ballast spread it, keep it clear of frogs ect. then glue down with your favorite gluing method for complete weed coverage just mix a few greens together with a tiny bit of cinders and ballast with that.
Really make sure it is well stuck down you don't want your loco's picking up ground foam and having it clog the motor.
Lightly used branch lines where some times done with cinders or with much less stone ballast than the main line. some times they started with the same heavy ballast which later through neglect less maintainance ect dissapeared and became badly contaminated with dirt and weeds.
Railways generaly don't get ballasted with dirt it may hold the track in place one of ballasts functions
The other is drainage and dirt does not realy allow that to happen too much water the sleepers will rot or track will lift and move both of which is undesirable.
I would tend to avoid to much over growth or high weeds due to the loco'c picking it up risk
regards John
If you want to go even lower than the N-scale roadbed, you could make your own out of 1 or 2mm Depron foam. Just cut it into strips. For something that thin, you don't really need to bevel the edges of the foam, just bevel the ballast.
But if you do decide to bevel the foam, you can make a simple tool for that...
Steve S
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Scenery is done in layers. So ballest like the mainline, then go back later and add dirt, then grass. This way you can pick the amount of disuse you want.
Some real nice work there. In the past I have used primarily WS materials for ballast. Light gray on the double track mainline. Darker gray in my main yard and sidings. Cinders in the engine terminal. A mixture of materials on various spurs. I'm thinking of using a mixture of ballast, cinders, and dirt for the branchline with weeds growing up through the ties, both inside and outside the rails.
You're on the right track here. Using the N cork is a good start. I use Sculptamold to bring adjoing ground close to level with the track. Ditching might be present, but very subdued compared to mainline. You want a hunkered down in the dirt look to things. These three pics of Chattanooga on the old Silverton RR illustrate.
I am beginning construction of my branchline which will be lightly traveled (2-3 trains per day in each direction). It is a fictional line set in southern New York. I am trying to decide to what degree I want to ballast the track. I have several NYOW books to use as reference. Their double track mainline is ballasted quite heavily but there is a lot of variance on some of the secondary lines. In some places the roadbed is barely raised, in others weeds are growing up through the ballast and there are even places where it looks like the loco is running through grass. I’d like to replicate that latter look for the small yard at the end of the line. For the rest of the line I’ve already decided to use N-scale roadbed for my HO track but I am not sure how much ballasting would be appropriate. Most of my NYOW pictures are in black and white so it is hard to tell what kind of materials were used for ballast. In some it looks like rock ballast but in others it looks like it might be cinders or just dirt. I would appreciate anybody’s thoughts on how a lightly used branchline would be ballasted.