Bachmann E-Z command DCC

[Anonymous]

Based on the review December 2004 Model Railroader I purchased the Command Pack with the encoder installed GP50. Whilst I agree with the review that the loco is smooth running, I find that the loco is very very noisy in operation under DCC control. The shell only seems to make it worse. as well. It is more than acceptable when running under DC though. The review did not mention any noisy operation, so I took the Gepp back to the shop. Well, what do you know, every unit we tried had the same noisy operation. Are there any other users of this Bachmann Pack experiancing the same noisy operation as I am.
I am in Australia by the way.

[cacole]

At the price Bachmann is selling the locomotive with a decoder already installed, I guess you can't expect too much.

[Anonymous]

There is that I suppose. This Bachmann setup cost me AU$200.00. You can buy the loco's here separately for AU$85.00. There again, the Model Railroader reviewer Jim Hediger did not mention any noisy operation. I trust this is not a case of keeping the Advertiser happy.
Thanks for your reply anyway.

[cacole]

I assume that the locomotive is made in China, as are nearly every other brand nowadays. The locomotive probably needs to be lubricated, because Bachmann Spectrum, Broadway Limited, Lionel, and other manufacturers all provide lubrication instructions with the locomotive and advise owners to lubricate them after a short period of running. It seems that many models are not lubricated at the factory. Another person wrote an item here recently recommending automatic transmission fluid as the best lubricant for locomotives, but I don't remember what brand of fluid he mentioned.

[RMax1]

I have found my Santa Fe GP-40 runs great for a Bachmann product.. It is noisy at higher speeds but at lower speeds it is quiet. So far I have been impressed by the Bachmann DCC. All i can say for a loco with a decoder in it already at a cost of $25 it's a bargain. The system is so far fairly simple to use and setup. The real test comes soon when I start getting my Proto 2000's converted over.

RMax

[Anonymous]

In response to Cacole. Yes they are Chinese made and they make some lovely stuff over there, but not this time. I have now had the shell off, sod of a job as very tight fit. Anyway, I have given it a touch of Labell grease and given it a run. This has made no difference to the noise factor. As for RMax1. Glad to hear you are happy with your unit. Having a close look at the mechanism I think it needs some work done on it. The truck (short hood end) has a wobble when viewed from one side as it is running on the layout. I am going to strip the thing completely and see what I can tweak out of it. If all else fails, I will run it on DC were it performs quietly and smoothly. It is a nice looking engine and runs smoothly, albeit noisily. As it stands, the noise factor must be a result of the decoder, in that the Khz signal is too low and therefore audible to the human ear.
Thanks for your input guy's.
David

[bcammack]

Any discernible way to isolate the decoder from the chassis or body with something to absorb the vibration? It sounds like the shell is acting as a resonator to amplify the sound.

[Anonymous]

Hi Brett,

Well the shell does amplify the noise, no doubt about that. Thing is, this is only when running under DCC. The unit runs very sweetly and quietly indeed on DC power.
On stripping the unit down ( not something to do every 5 minutes) I noticed the following. (1) The universals attached to the motor shafts are way out of alignment and sit at an angle. This causes a thumping action at low speeds, but appears to even out somewhat as you increase the power. I did some tweaking with them and they now sit a bit better, but not perfect.
(2) The power bogie at the short hood end of the GP50 had a decided wobble to it. I tightened the screw a bit and this got rid of the wobble alright, but kept derailing the engine. Slackened of a bit and now perfect. As I said, this unit runs perfectly under DC, I firmly believe therefore, that the decoder is causing the noise. As I am 100 Klms from a hobby shop, I will run & enjoy the thing on DC until I get to the shop end of next week and buy a decent silent decoder. Thanks for your input.

David

[Anonymous]

But how is the digital system? Is it good? Is it good for a starter? I have no digital layout, but at our club layout I have experienced the advantages of DCC. Maybe I want to start with this at home, but it has to be simple and not too expensive. Is this a good pack for starters?

[sully57]

Mathieu, I'd also love to hear from anybody about the Bachmann E-Z DCC. I am entertaining it for my entry into DCC. As others have mentioned, the included loco is probably a little nosier than a higher priced one. But again, consider the price. My hobby shop is now selling this system for just over $100, loco included. So, am anxious to get more reviews from 'real people' on this. From what I can see, this is a 1-amp system. I guess the only drawback is that it puts a limit on the # of simultaneous locos one can operate (2 vs. 4-digit addressing?). On my 5x9 layout, it is not a huge issue, as I could never imagine running more that 3 at the same time. But, accessories are also part of the equation. In summary (for me), it seems to be a reasonably attractive pkg to break into DCC. That being said, part of me wants to shell out a few more bucks for a 'better'(?) DCC starter system. My hobby shop guy said the Bachmann is pretty good, but for another $60-$70, the more powerful (2.4 amp?), and expandable Digitrax Zephyr would be better investment. But, of course, this doesn't include a "ready-to-run" loco. Would be great if anyone has hands-on experience with both of these units, and would make comments here. The other advantage I see to the Digitrax, is expandability - the ability to add walk-around cab (with tether), rather than Bachmann's central location unit. I hope I've stated facts correctly. Thanks, and I'd love to hear from the people who know about these units. I hope this is not too far off-topic. thank you! -Sully

[Anonymous]

I believe that a DCC decoder controls the speed of the motor by using PWM (Pulse Width Modulation). PWM basically turns the power on and off to the motor several thousand times per second. When you tell the loco to go faster, is just changes the ratio of on:off time so that the motor is on power a larger percent of the time.

Each time that the loco gets a bit of power, for that fraction of a second, the motor will accelerate. It will then decelerate when the power is removed. Of course this is all happening so fast that the loco goes the same speed on the track, but if there is any play in the gears between the motor and the drive axles, then they will hammer and make noise. I believe that this is solved either by a big flywheel on the motor, or better yet by a capacitor in the decoder itself. The capacitor will even out the voltage going into the motor and thus the gears don't hammer against each other making noise.

In a DC environment, there is always constant torque on the gears so they have no chance of making that hammering noise.

As a test, replace the decoder in your loco with a high quality one. If it doesn't make noise any more, great. If it still makes noise, then apparently the more expensive locos have a more tightly meshed gear set.

-Lance

[Anonymous]

Mathieu,Sully,Lance

The Bachmann E-Z Controller is a real basic system. You can control the loco and switch the lights on and off, or just dim them. As I previously mentioned, the loco runs perfectly well and very quietly on DC power, but is very noisy on DCC. The decoder in the Bachmann loco that comes with the set, is the Lenz LE1000W. This decoder is a basic cheapy put out by Lenz. As the matter now stands with my GP50, I am not running it on DCC until I can replace the decoder with a NCE or ZIMO silent one. I also have had the loco stripped down, and done some remedial work on the universals that are attached to the motor shafts. These were not contentric on the shafts, and at the lower speeds caused a hammering action. The result is not perfect, but the hammering is greatly reduced. This however, did not make any difference to the noise factor. By the way the unit does not have flywheels. In addittion, the truck at the short hood end had a bad wobble, which I fixed by tightening the screw slightly. In my honest opinion, the Command unit is a pleasure to operate and simple to use. The loco although nice looking, leaves something to be desired in relation to quality control.

Kind Regards

David

[SP4449]

Just tried the BE-ZC with an NCE Decoder. Worked perfectly when I installed it directly out of the package in an Athearn SD40-2 I had laying around. The headlight didn't dim like the one in the Bachmann GP-40 did. Since there were no other CVs programmed prior to my using it with the BE-ZC, I couldn't test other functiions. I suppose that if the decoder has the functions coded prior to using it on the Bachmann system, ie: programmed on a club or friends DCC system first, they might function. It was fun watching the units run toward each other (emergency stop works great) and "simple consisting", and chase each other. While the system is in "emergency" it allows direction change of one of the units to correct any problems that come up.

If you are controlling more than one loco with the system, the one(s) not currently under control are trully running free at the speed setting and direction you left them at. You have to press the address button and turn the speed control to get control of the unit back.

[Anonymous]

SP4449

Interesting post thank you. Can I presume that your Bachmann GP40 is a quiet runner, as you did not make any mention, one way or the other.

As a matter of interest, I could not get the E-Z Command momentum to work with my Bachmann GP50, so while I had it back at the shop, the owner programmed momentum in to it by using a Roco Mouse setup. By the way would you mind letting me know which NCE decoder you used in your Athearn SD40-2.

Lastly, I have received advice from Bachmann, that I should not be having any noise problems, and to take the geep back and get it exchanged. That's a good one indeed, when you consider that I had advised them that every unit in the shop ie: GP50's, GP40's and FT's were all noisy on DCC, using both a E-Z Command controller and a Roco Mouse controller. A different story on DC though, very silent and smooth runners.

Like your moniker SP4449. I model the Southern Pacific, no particuler time period or location, but I have 72 Diesels and 15 Steamers. I do like those Alco's Diesels , and my favourites in Australia are the Goodwin-Alco units of the 700,830,930, 44, 45, and 48 classes. Sadly, there are only a very few left running now.

Regards
David

[SP4449]

Response to alco930 and others wondering the same thing: The GP40 purchased with the DCC is noisy at low speeds. From a crawl to about 30 percent full speed, it growled pretty noticably, then as speed was increased, the noise diminished to no worse than some older Athearn units.

As for the momentum advertised: I found that if the speed control was very rapidly moved from 0 to 50 percent, the unit slowly came up to that speed. And if the control was suddenly turned down to 0, it dropped slowly to a stop. It slowed much more rapidly than a unit with a good flywheel would but it was not a sudden stop as when the stop button was pressed, for example.

For the decoder used in the Athearn SD40-2, it is the D102-US from the NCE Master Series decoders. I have had it for a couple of years. I was a little anxious about connecting a headlamp to it but the one NCE recommended using (Minatronics part number 18-014-10, 14v/30mA, 2.4 mm bulb) worked without any resistors. It is very bright so I plan to put a 22 ohm resistor in series to dim it a bit and reduce the load on the decoder circuit. That unit was very quiet on the run.

As for the moniker, I lived on the SP mainline the Daylight traveled in the '50s and '60s when the train was in the orange and scarlet livery but pulled by the Alco PA. I got there too late to see the steamers. I made sure my walk home from school was through the yard and station area so I could watch the trains. Someone in the yards didn't make the officials as nervous as it does today so I have some good photos of the trains of the day.

[Anonymous]

SP4449,

Thank you for the info re decoder for your SD40-2. As for the momentum feature with the E-Z Command controller, I had another look at the DVD that came with the package, and yes it does work if you operate in the fashion shown on the DVD, and the way you described.

With my GP50, since it was re-programmed with the Roco Mouse, I just crack the throttle a bit and it smoothly moves off and builds up speed, albeit buzzing like a bee on steroids.

I have quite a few Athearns, and all of them, beside a test run at the place of purchase, are stripped right down when I get them home, before running them on the layout. Gearboxes are checked for flash and run thru with Pearl Drops tooth polish before greasing and re-assembly. The metal strip atop the motor is removed, and replaced with wire. the bottom connector is isolated from the chassis and wired accordingly. End result is a nice quiet and smooth running unit. I also fit white Leds to the units. I do not do any of this with my Atlas, Proto 1000 or Proto 2000 units.

I do envy your time living along the SP main, and can only imagine what is what like in the flesh when I look at photo's. My Proto2000 E8's in Daylight colors look great pulling a consist of daylight cars. Now those E8's are candidates for DCC.

Regards
David

[Anonymous]

OK, the EZ seems to be a pretty good start in DCC. We have a club layout with Digitrax, but at home I have only a small layout. It is not possible to run two traines at the same time, otherwise one of them will drop off the layout... An expensive DCC-system is not appropriate for such a layout, I think. And I have only DC-locomotives. I want to buy a DCC-loco in spring (you know, these are expensive months), but I don't need an sophisticated system for that one train. And that engine in the EZ-pack: I have N scale, so I will give it to my son. He has HO. DC.

[rrinker]

Just one thought, since your club uses Digitrax. Do you run YOUR equipment at the club? And do they have a standard for using the cab number as the DCC address, or not? I only mention this because the addresses used by the Bachmann system are 1-9. Loco 1702 will have to be 1, 7, or 2 on the Bachmann system (or whichever button you want to assign it to, actually). If you don't mind reprogramming, or the club doesn;t have other locos using the first 9 addresses, or you don't take your own equipment back and forth to the club, by all means, the Bachmann system is an excellent low cost way to get into DCC.
If it DOES matter, consider the Digitrax Zephyr as an alternative low-cost system. Or one of the other starter systems that lets YOU pick the address, instead of assigning a particular address to a loco.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

Thank you, Randy. I didn't realize that this can be a problem. As you see, I am not a experienced digital railroader. [:D] I only pu***he buttons, I don't know how and why.

At the club, we have many different engines and we always use the cab numbers as addres. None of these is 1 to 9, so maybe it is not a big problem.

A bigger problem is that Bachmann and Digitrax are hard to find here. I do not buy at the Internet, so I have to go to a shop. I am afraid that there are not many shops here selling these two brands.

[rrinker]

I'm sure you'll find Lenz and Zimo much more widely available over there. I know Lenz has starter systems that can be expanded as you grow, I don't know about Zimo's line. However, the Lenz starter system is limited to using only addresses 1-99. Interesting.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

Why are you afraid of shopping on the net????
I have saved Hundreds on the web, and I don't think many of us model RR'ers have had any serious problems.

[Anonymous]

Two reasons: I do not have a credit card and I don not need one, and I know that I will buy to much when buying is so easy.[:)] Limting yourself to the local shop saves a lot of money.

[Anonymous]

An update on my problems with the Bachmann decoder equipped GP50. I have taken the plunge and removed the board from the geep and replaced it with a TCS A1 Decoder.

Well the difference is amazing. The geep now runs very quietly and smoothly at all speeds, and the vibrations thru the shell have ceased. I have not connected the lights at this stage, preferring to fit white leds when I can get to the nearest electronics shop (100 klms away) and replenish my stock.

One thing, the loco now starts suddenly when the throttle is cracked, but this is at a low speed. Conversely, the loco stops dead in its tracks when reducing the throttle, but before its finally closed. As I can't adjust the momentum with the Bachmann E-Z Command Control, I will have to have the guy at the shop adjust it for me.

In conclusion, this is what I was after in the first place, a quiet smooth running unit. I am happy now guy's.

Regards

David

[tstage]

David,

Thanks for keeping us all abreast on your "learning journey". It's been helpful for me since I am now contemplating starting my current layout with DCC instead of DC.

Tom