Need some help group! I am modeling a deep water port for the first time (have done streams and creeks before) and have decided to use Woodland Scenics Realistic Water.
How smooth does the Hydrocal base need to be (am sealing with Gesso) to make a deep water scene look realistic? (painting a very dark green, almost black). I am worried that any imperfections will be visible thru the water?
I really would appreciate any feedback!
Tim
I haven't modeled water so this is from what I've researched. I think the dark color is going to hide any imperfections. Not sure about the WS Realistic Water, but other gels/gloss mediums can be tinted themselves making them less transparent. I assume same for the WS product. Are you going to texture/ripple the surface? If so, that would further prevent the detection of textures/imperfections on the base layer.
Hi Tim, so you want to get your feet wet,,,,,,,,
From your previous experience you will know, the smoother the better as it helps you to get the river bed//ocean bed sealed up well and that is important to hold the water media.
Now, from my point of view, you will not want a mirrored finish on that big deep water. You'll be probably using water effects or Gesso or something to give the surface some wave action. This alone will hide alot of irregularities on the bottom and then the darker color required to simulate depth will also help to hide underwater features. So I don't think I would waste a whole lot of time on that question. My main question, I believe would be how is the best way to make continous wave action and wakes which would also disguise what is below.
I have only done slower moving rivers with ripples and eddies.
Johnboy out
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
I'd suggest a surface with something like drywall mud sanded smooth. Paint that and coat with your desired water material. The Realistic Water may not be necessary, as I've seen plenty of nice water treatments for harbor scenes that have nothing but the waves added using Mod Podge gloss and/or acrylic gel.
Rob Spangler
I seal plywood with acrylic craft paints, going from light green nearest the banks to a charcoal/blue for the deepest part in the middle. I pour two layers of two-part epoxy mixed as well as suggested by the gentleman above....really thoroughly, and measured very carefully first. I have also tinted the pours, usually the top pour, with a half-drop of Hauder Green from Walmart, and I add a pinch of Plaster of Paris to make it look a bit turbid.
Once both layers have cured, each for a minimum of 12 hours, I top them with gel gloss medium and stipple the surface with the side of a foam brush.
I wanted deep water around my car float. I set the float on pink foam, painted black with cheap acrylic paint. I added some browns around it too, just to break up the uniformity.
I used Envirotex, like I do for all my water. In this case, I tinted it with black and green craft paint. It was dark and transluscent, so even though the "water" was only a quarter-inch thick, you still couldn't see the bottom.
I like to take a bit of lighter green paint and swirl it into the top of the Envirotex with a toothpick as it's setting. This lets you create eddy current in the water.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Thanks for all the input guys! That is disconcerting news about Realistic Water. (especially since I have already purchased several bottles!) Anyone else had experience with WS's Realistic Water?
Might have to re-think this one, but I suppose if I tint the water discoloration won't matter?
Thanks again everybody,
Hi Cajon Tim
Step one take WS realistic water and deposit in Sulo green file for later city council removal.
I have had problems with it far to polite to give my true opinion.
The smoother your base the easier to seal and paint it will be.
Once sealed I would sugest giving it two coats of the light colour just to make sure you have the whole area covered then once thats dry the adding the graduated colours for the really deep water,take your time and get it right.
I use high gloss artists varnish for water you want the smelly solvent based one
You will have to do several pours over about a week to get a little bit of depth it should ripple on its own mine always has.
You will need a way to cover the water while it develops a thick skin between pours bugs seem to like the smell of the stuff.
Once you are happy with the depth after two or three pours leave it a whole week. Before doing any more this gives it a chance to dry or at least have a thick enough skin to put a couple of drips of varnish in to sit sea gulls on so they are in rather than on the water the thick skin or hardend varnish will be enough to support the gulls while the whole thing hardens up it can take time to set up solid.
Oh! and the obviouse no matter what you end up using for water have nothing you want to keep under that area and three plenties of news paper layed out to catch an seepage if there is a leak and you can tape it up to seal it do so quickly.
Deep water ports should not have waves as such they will have breakwaters to prevent that.
If you want to go further in to things you can put in the navigation markers etc.
I would sugest a little reasurch RR modelers don't often get deep water ports right they look good but are not right.
If after all the work has set up hard you do find a minor imperfection drip of varnish and another sea gull should fix it with it being deep water and dark coloured imperfections won't show to easy.
Do be aware not to poke the varnish to see it its dry if it isn't you will leave a finger print that has to be fixed up.
regards John
CajonTim Thanks for all the input guys! That is disconcerting news about Realistic Water. (especially since I have already purchased several bottles!) Anyone else had experience with WS's Realistic Water? Might have to re-think this one, but I suppose if I tint the water discoloration won't matter? Thanks again everybody, Tim
The discolouration can be caused by the problem I had it did not truly set up hard and sealed and some how dust worked its way into the water discolouring it and this happend well and truly after it should have been dry and hard.
Well, maybe I can use the Realistic Water as weights for freshly glued track! That way I didn't completely waste my money!
Not sure which route I will go now, but lots of good suggestions.
As always, I really appreciate the input!
Tim,
Maybe my recent experiences in preparing to model a deep channel harbor for carfloat operations will be of help. I've found that little if any of the bottom will be visible if painted a dark color, but brush marks stand out like a sore thumb. Also confirmed that a good grade of plywood with a couple rolled on coats of Kilz primer/sealer lightly sanded between coats makes for a good bottom surface, without wood grain showing.
Two 1/8" layers of Envirotex epoxy over a painted surface displays a nice illusion of depth from any angle, an effect that I've not been able to acheive with applications of various gloss products, such as gloss medium, Modpodge or polyurethane.
Deep harbor water with ripples, undulations, chop or small waves looks good IMO. Experimenting wtih gloss medium and Modpodge for these effects caused excess bubbling, less so with Modpodge applied heavily with a mop brush. The tiny bubbles show as cloudy spots when the coating is dry.
Gloss gel is nearly bubble free and has a long working time, but being somewhat stiff doesn't lend itself to soft undulations. Woodland Scenics Water Effects is also nearly bubble free, but stiffer yet and shorter working time than the gel. Presently looking into a method of applying gloss gel effects with a popsicle stick (TerranScapes Youtube vids).
Have done a small lake and canal with Envirotex, but with nearly 5 sq. ft. of harbor water suface I'm concerned about such a large pour. Intend to experiment using 1/4" thick plexiglass with the bottom painted and water effects on top, a la Dave Frary.
Off topic, but working out on an oil refinery deep channel wharf on San Francisco bay I can attest to plenty of choppy water, white caps and even small wave action. Was always a fascinating treat to watch those highly skilled tugboat captains and crews maneuvering those behemoth tankers to berth.
Good luck and regards, Peter
I did a port, used MDF as a base and paintered it with craft paints, the used acrylic gloss varnish to finish, looks real good and easy to clean!
LION is going to make a model of the Gowanus Canal. To be realistic, I could make it out of motor oil instead of water. When looked at from the top it is rather yuckky, but still from the draw bridge you can see reflections in it.
(It cannot be seen right now, because I installed a new router and the ISP will have to tweek it a little more for you to access my pictures, but trust me, the picture IS there, and will show up tomorrow sometime.)
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
BroadwayLion LION is going to make a model of the Gowanus Canal. To be realistic, I could make it out of motor oil instead of water. When looked at from the top it is rather yuckky, but still from the draw bridge you can see reflections in it. (It cannot be seen right now, because I installed a new router and the ISP will have to tweek it a little more for you to access my pictures, but trust me, the picture IS there, and will show up tomorrow sometime.) ROAR
Motor Oil would certainly add the aroma
Joe Staten Island West
trust me, the picture IS there, and will show up tomorrow sometime.)
ROAR Hey Lion, tomorrow has come and gone more than once. You remind me of my Chief Petty officer when I asked him to let me go on leave. He said to come see him tomorrow. The next day I went to see him and he asked me what he had told me yesterday. Well then he said why don't you do what you have blanky blank been told. Finally my tomorrow came and we hope your's will too. Bob
Hey Lion, tomorrow has come and gone more than once.
You remind me of my Chief Petty officer when I asked him to let me go on leave. He said to come see him tomorrow. The next day I went to see him and he asked me what he had told me yesterday. Well then he said why don't you do what you have blanky blank been told.
Finally my tomorrow came and we hope your's will too.
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
Hi Broadwaylion
That looks like a candidate for a modern twist on a very old techneque (spelling)paint the mirky stuff on the wooden base.
Its a cannal so its reasonably straight.
Cut the water out of 1/8" perspecs (I think in the US you call it plexi glass) place the water on top of the paited finish build the banks up around the water add flat bottomed model barges to taste job done.
Keep apropriate polish handy to deal with any minor scuffs
I would NOT recomend it for obviouse reasons but the very old books I have sugest glass flat for cannals and ponds and ripple glass for other water.