Woodland Scenics Inclines

[Anonymous]

I built an experimental 2% grade using the Woodland Scenics incline set, prior to using it in my new (HO scale) layout. I'm glad I did. At the top of the grade, I've so far been unable to make a smooth transition to level roadbed, and the resulting vertical kink derails most of my longer-wheelbase steam locomotives. Does anyone have suggestions (or better still, direct experience) for solving this problem while still using the Woodland Scenics product?

[Anonymous]

I too have a question on inclines, but mine is how do i make a smooth transition at the start of it. Hope you don't mind me tagging along on your post rails, but thought these went together and maybe we can both get some help. Thanks to any and all who help in advance.

[Anonymous]

Hi Toolbox Guy,

I used the WS incline starter. At the very beginning, I smoothed it out a bit more using 1/64th plywood. This has generally been effective. Although theory would tell us otherwise, in practice it appears to me that the geometry of beginning the incline is less troubling to locomotives than the geometry of ending it.

I have a single loco (actually small 2-8-0) whose cowcatcher is so close to the rails that it has a problem at the beginning of the incline. I've known for years about this problem with this loco and now will have to do something to raise the frame a bit.

[Leon Silverman]

The solution is a transition at the top of the grade.
Just as you start an incline with an initially gradual elevation change (e.g. 0.25% on a 2% grade, your top of the grade should end in the same way. The incline at the top of the grade likewise also gradually reduce to 0% (horizontal). If you are using the Woodland Scenics sytem, the easiest method is to increase the spacing between the supports at the end to get the grade reduction. You may have add spacers between the WS blocks to support the roadbed. They should be cut to a length halfway between the lengths of the adjoining blocks.

[Anonymous]

Leon,

Thank you for the suggestion. It makes sense. But doesn't it kind of defeat the purpose of using the WS product to start with? i.e. if I have to do all this precision cutting of foam or equivalent, might as well do it for the whole incline.

[Leon Silverman]

rails5,

You shoudl have to make only one or two spacers. However, here are two other possible solutions:
1. Continue the incline beyond the WS blocks and go thru the transition by bending the subroad to level the track .
2. Most illustrations I have seen show the WS blocks being placed on a curve. If you cannot use a transiton slope, then at least make sure the end of the slop is perfectly straight, at least for a foot in HO. This should eliminate the derailments, but your 85' flat cars may bottom out. I experienced this when I built a layout in my old house. I eliminated the problem by shimming the roadbed near the apex so that the track curved down into the incline rather than going thru an abrupt angle.
Regarding the question of defeating the purpose of using the WS blocks, I think it is safe to say that virtually of us who call ourselves model railroaders modify or change most of what we acquire. The WS blocks are problably a good time savor. Without them, you would have to cut a couple dozen blocks of different lengths or else use a subroadbed. The nature of this hobby is that there is a full range of interests, abilities, space, and available income. This means we have to adjust and be tolerant of those who have to adjust,

[j1love]

I read about using "cookie cutter" subroadbed a couple of years back. Basically, you cut a roadbed out of a piece of thin plywood leaving one end attached and gently bend the cut end to your grade. It takes care of the starting and ending transitions nicely due to the plywood's resistence to bending. Maybe using this technique with the WS incline would be a better choice. What do you all think?[?]

[Anonymous]

Leon, I'll give your suggestion a try. You're right of course about modifying, etc. but I'm a little concerned about the level of precision that will be required in cutting some foam to match. By the way, I model (mostly) the steam-to-diesel transition era, so for better or worse I don't have any 85' flats. I have some 80' passenger cars but they do fine. Its my long-wheel-base steamers ((2-10-0, 4-8-4, 4-8-2, 2-10-2) that are derailing.

Planning a layout always seems to involve some less-than-optimal choices. There are a couple points where I simply cannot stick to my preferred large-radius curves and have straight track at the vertical transition points.

J1love, I've used the cookie cutter before and I want to try a different approach. FIrst reason is that its actually rther difficult to attain a truly uniform or smooth grade by cookie-cutting. Second reason is that I'm trying to get away from the very noisy running created by attaching track to playwood. Third reason is that I have two situations where I have a bridge right at the top of the grade, so the cookie cutter won't solve the vertical-kink problem. Maybe the only solution is to re-work the plan so I hve don't ahve this situation, but I've reached a point where, as they say, that will "change everything"!

[Bikerdad]

Bring your grade up to just below the apex, use two or three of the supports "just below" height and progressively shim them to the final apex height. Doesn't require any fancy precision cutting.

[Anonymous]

Bikerdad,
Thanks for the suggestion but I'm not quite clear what you are recommending. What type of supports? Are you suggesting trimming the incline suppoerts? Thanks for further elucidation.

[Anonymous]

I'm using a 3% grade on my layout, an up and a down. My method was a little less scientific though. I just used a little bit of cardboard out of a model box at the bottom, and a box knife at the top. Just start a little ways back and gradually cut the foam down to almost level.

[Anonymous]

I'm using lots of this stuff with "N" scale. I fixed my top transition with a little sanding. I still need to work on the approach. I'll be following this post closely. Dave

[Leon Silverman]

The "apex" of my incline was, in fact, a Warren Trus Bridge. The roadbead was Homabed, the subroadbed was particleboard cookie cut. If youi cannot avoid a curve at the top, you might try using the gardrail (bridge) style track.

[camarokid]

rails5: I believe Bikerdad means not using all the foam inclines all the way up. Stop short of the desired heighth by a few foam inclines and use the shorter ones to get a more level transition by shimming under the short ones. Clear as mud, right? If no one can give you a precise answer, start from the apex and work down the incline to the bottom. Hope this works for you. TOOLBOX: Find a wooden shingle and file to form the incline you desire.

[johncolley]

Another solution is to use a Surform plane to radius off the last few sections of risers. They are after all foam. sure it will be messy, but a shopvac with pantyhose in the nossle will let you collect all the foam for use in scenery! For the bottom end I use the simulated "credit cards" that often come with offers. Cut them into strips as wide as your roadbed and laminate them as needed for shims to gradually build up to the grade supports.. I also use this method when going from mainline to siding or spurs.

[Anonymous]

Has anyone discussed this problem with Woodland? Might be interesting to get their input.

[Anonymous]

I have used the 3% incline system to raise from 0 to 2" and from 2" to 4". on the first one the end of the incline is into a bridge which makes the final transition to 2". On the second one I transitioned into a stack of foam board and then into plywood sub roadbed which continues the climb to 5". I model in N scale and have had no problems with 70' cars.

[Anonymous]

For my plywood subroadbed inclines I used a 1/4" per foot grade(approximately 2.1%). However, for the first and last foot on the incline I used an 1/8" per foot. I didn't run anything particularly long so you may need some variation of this, but I think you get the idea. !/4" for the first and last foot caused me problems.
Hope this helps,
Mark
http://webusers.warwick.net/~u1015590/

[trainnut57]

I guess I just got lucky on my inclines. I used an Atlas Pier set and the only trouble I seem to be having is length of the climb. It is so long I had to take it around a curve at one point. After apacing the piers, I just watched my heaviest Locomotive as it ran over the track and adjusted wherever it (the track) was forced to dip due to the weight. All is fine and everything runs smooth-even the transition to level. Sometimes I think the "easier" systems desinged "specifically for.....etc" you use can cause more problems. I am sure the pier set wasn't intended to use as a hill incline.

[Anonymous]

possible fix. I just tried something that worked on the beginning of the inclines. I used thin styrafoam like sheeting cut to just wider than the tracks. It's used for wrapping items for shipments. I was going to buy some thin cork, and then I realized I got all this stuff for free laying around. It's about as thick as the cardboard on the back of a tablet. Should also help deaden some of the sound from my Unitrack on foam sheets. Dave

[Anonymous]

Look at the side of the Woodland Scenic package. If you use a 3% grade combined with a 2% going in opposite directions, you get an effective 1% grade. That will ease the transition without any cutting and still using Woodland Scenic products.

Dave...