I've been buying UK model railway books, videos and magazines off and on since the 1970's. One difference I've noticed is that since UK homes rarely have basements, their layouts are usually very small - perhaps a 1' by 6' switching layout for example. However, they make up for it by superdetailing and weathering the models to make them very realistic.
Hornby may be a long time British brand, but I've found it interesting that US HO railroading is extremely popular in the UK - so it's not all sharp curves and two axle freight cars etc. with buffers. When I visited England, both a club and a private individual featured more than half of their railroads were US type, and British trains were actually the minority. There are several prominant Brits modeling SP and featuring very high quality prototypical operations including SP steam and SP 70's and 80's style trains with a high degree of fidelity.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Is that a great layout? Of course it is.
Is it typical of British layouts? Of course not.
riogrande5761What you are describing sounds dangerously close to a cog railway - 6.5% grades!!!!
Doh! I accidentially hit the moron button. Made the old pi times radius mistake. I'm surprised nobody called me on that until now. It's actually 3.4%. Figure in the drag for the curve and the effective is 5.26%. Still very impressive.
Have a look at the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgZDGjTwL7s
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
carl425 I can't imagine a Walthers Proto E-unit pulling 7 full sized passenger cars up a 6.5% grade on a 17.5" radius helix. The Hornby stuff is certainly different from what we have in the US.
I can't imagine a Walthers Proto E-unit pulling 7 full sized passenger cars up a 6.5% grade on a 17.5" radius helix. The Hornby stuff is certainly different from what we have in the US.
What you are describing sounds dangerously close to a cog railway - 6.5% grades!!!!
NP2626With the World's economy so closely linked together, my thoughts are that the British have exactly the same “Stuff” that we do.
Right, but John raises an important point as to why the contrast - if the Brits had as many large basements, would they have as much time to devote to scratch building or the like, if they instead had to devote much their limited time building that basement empire - all that room finishing, benchwork, track laying, scenery, electrical wiring, backdrops, and so on require copious amounts of time, which IMO, is helping to drive the demand for high quality RTR trains in the US market. If I were retired, and had the time to "do it all" then maybe I would be trying my hand at the kits and scratchbuilding more, but I have a family and job etc. and what little time I do get right now is going into the layout, and not train building.
So John aptly points out that if one doesnt have the space/layout to steal away tons of time and instead can devote most of you hobby time to the models, then there will be much more of a focus on that. My wife was born and raised in England and I"ve been there with her several times and seen first hand, it ain't like the US there, and the space we have here is a much rarer thing for the average Brit, so the whole line of reasoning by John follows and is logical.
I wasn't making comment one way or the other about Ready to Run, only that the British still enjoy building models!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
NP2626 Do the British have better stuff than we do? With the World's economy so closely linked together, my thoughts are that the British have exactly the same “Stuff” that we do. However, I do notice that the Brit’s are builders of Models and not as RTR oriented as we seem to be. This is evidenced by the fact that their hobby magazines are oriented towards building models.
Do the British have better stuff than we do? With the World's economy so closely linked together, my thoughts are that the British have exactly the same “Stuff” that we do. However, I do notice that the Brit’s are builders of Models and not as RTR oriented as we seem to be. This is evidenced by the fact that their hobby magazines are oriented towards building models.
In all fairness though I think this is one of the important factors that allows the US based modeller to have that large basement / train room empire
Imagine how long it would take if everything had to be scratch and kit built.
The UK levels of RTR are rising the gaps are slowly being filled.
I think the RTR has its place it gets trains moving faster and after that first train can run then who cares, the rest will look after its self acording to the inclination of the layout builder.
regards John
Hi guys
The answer is no I am sure you could list the good and bad in the US model railroad world.The UK is the same good and bad.
However your small 9'X12' layout would in the UK be considered to be large and most of the layouts seen in the US model press would in the UK be concidered beyond the wildest dreams of most people.
The US did for a while try OO scale it did not take and was more gauge acurate than the UK one.
On the assumption of same scale and gauge most US modern large locomotives steam or diesle would in all likely hood get stuck in a UK tunnel given the much smaller UK loading gauge.
These days the UK has bogie rolling stock trucks to you.
There are still some 4 wheeled wagons but not the little wooden ones still much loved by many of the UK modellers.
The UK modellers do seem to scratch build more and seem to have more cottage industries to provide for the more specialist interest railways.
If the UK are better railway modellers with better trains etc it has to be all down to one thing and one thing only.
Well they did invent railways as we know them and export them to the world
Every one else adopted then addapted them to suit there local national conditions
The Very early US railways bought UK trains and quickly dumped them and got ones suitable to the US conditions made in the US the smart ones started with US made less teething problems from what I have read.
So I think the truth is more along this line the same but differrent
But having smaller layouts they have more time for the smaller details.
riogrande5761 DSchmitt Wow, I hit a nerve. No, you didn't hit a nerve, rather what you know about Bachmann in the US simply doesn't translate to the UK market. As the old saying goes, assumption is the mother of all .. As I mentioned, Bachmann makes a lot of products for different markets - so all that you know about Bachmann in the US is not relavant on other markets as is the case for many other things in other countries.
DSchmitt Wow, I hit a nerve.
No, you didn't hit a nerve, rather what you know about Bachmann in the US simply doesn't translate to the UK market. As the old saying goes, assumption is the mother of all ..
As I mentioned, Bachmann makes a lot of products for different markets - so all that you know about Bachmann in the US is not relavant on other markets as is the case for many other things in other countries.
A good example of the difference in Bachmann quality in their HO products was when the Chinese Spektrum 2-8-2 SY steam engines were imported. Their level of detail was far higher than the other US Spektrum engines. They SY engines also ran extremely quiet in comparison to most of the other Bachmann trains.
Sir Madog Metro Red Line - objection, your honor! Take a look at Jon Grant´s "Sweethome Chicago" and "Sweethome Alabama " layouts. This guy is setting standards!
Metro Red Line - objection, your honor!
Take a look at Jon Grant´s "Sweethome Chicago" and "Sweethome Alabama " layouts. This guy is setting standards!
MidlandPacific - I think you are getting a few things mixed up here. OO scale is 1/76, but rides on HO scale track of 16.5mm. Prototypical would be 18.2mm. Some British modelers lay there own track to that gauge. It´s called EM or P4.
Standard Diesels and the bigger steamers are just about the same size as there US counterpart. Of course, British rails never saw behemoths like the Big Boy, Challenger or the Triplex. Put a British OO gauge Mikado next to a US one and you won´t find much of a size difference.
As I said in my first reply to this thread, British model railroads are not better, but different. The same applies for the other way around.
I think rrinker put his finger on it- the equipment is significantly smaller, even though the scale is slightly bigger. In OO, the track gauge is also slightly narrower than full standard gauge, which helps on the curves. In the UK, the fine scale modelers typically go to something like the "Protofour" or "EM," which are slightly wider. you can look online at some of the clearance plates for British stuff- it's smaller than the UIC (Continental) standard, and significantly smaller than the American standard.
http://mprailway.blogspot.com
"The first transition era - wood to steel!"
hon30critter...those apparently small radii in the mentioned helix have to come at some cost.
That was the basic question - what cost are they paying?
hon30critterthey don't have different laws of physics
Then why do they drive on the left side of the road?
hon30critterNo offense to the OP.
None taken. But Sr. Maddog answered the question in the first response to the original post.
Metro Red Line
Well said! I think that sums it up very well.
I think this thread might have something to do with far away fields looking greener. Yes, the Brits have lots of great stuff available, but so do we. However, they don't have different laws of physics so those apparently small radii in the mentioned helix have to come at some cost. It would be nice to know what the cars weigh that their locos are able to pull up the small, steep helices. If they are anything like the three British Railway passenger coaches that I own their cars are very light weight indeed. I know that's a very poor sample to measure by. However, seven similar length very lightweight North American coaches would probably perform just as well under the same circumstances.
No offense to the OP.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
The British have WAAAAY better British railway model layouts than we do, but we have way better American model railroads than they do. :)
... and they put their luggage in the boot of a car, whereas you have to stowe your baggage in the trunk!
Back on topic - there are a great number of kitchen counter businesses catering for the British railway modeller, supplying kits, detail parts, services. All of this at still affordable prices, much lower than what I have to pay in my country. British layouts always have a very personal touch to them, due to the care for detail.
DSchmittWow, I hit a nerve.
No, you didn't hit a nerve, rather what you know about Bachmann in the US simply doesn't translate to the UK market. As I mentioned, Bachmann makes a lot of products for different markets - so all that you know about Bachmann in the US is not relavant on other markets as is the case for many other things in other countries.
Wow, I hit a nerve.
Bachmann entered ther UK market at the time they were greatly improvering their US product line, but their locomotives in particular still had the bad reputation in the US.
I bought my first Bachmann N scale in 1968. I considered most of their N scale freight cars from that period to be equal or better to any offered at that time. Their paint and lettering was among the best at least matching ATLAS and better than ConCor. While not detailed to todays standard they still stand up pretty well. Their shorty passenger cars (actualy based on Japanese prototype) made a nice passenger train on the very tight curves common in that period. It would be nice to have them today as bashing fodder and detailing with aftermarket products. Most of their Diesel locos were clunky looking (for instance their GP40 was oversize but strangly fans, grills, etc were to proper scale). They ran as well as other brands and they replaced them with better models over the years. In the mid 1980's I bought a number of their steamers. They were not bad looking for the period and are a good basis for detaling.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
Bachmann products made for the UK market, both in OO scale and N scale, are certainly not the el-cheapo products that we sometimes still associate with the brand. These are well-running, nicely detailed locos at prices which are affordable not only to the affluent.
Keep in mind what Bachmann offered in the US is not the same as manufactured for other countries. Bachmann, or it's parent company, make more products sold to the rest of the world and the US market, that you referred to as Botchmann, is only a limited part of it's line of products. It's a BIG assumption that what is sold in England is of the same calibur as the products which used to be sold in prior to ~2005 or so. Bachmann's more recent offerings in the US have seen siginifcant improvements too, it is worth noting, although not for everyone.
I was reading British model railroad magazines (a local hobby shop stocked them for a couple years) at the time Bachmann entered the market with British prototypes. At that time the Bachmann products were considered as big improvement over the British ready to run then being made. In contrast many US model railroaderds had another name for Bachman. It was "Botchman"
Actually, only the locos & passenger carriages that have truck/bogie mounted couplers in that video, the freight wagons of the four wheel variety are body mount. Looks like Kadee NEM362 series in use too.
Don't they still use some four-wheel freight wagons for some tasks? I know there was still some of that type used on the main in Australia, up till the 1980s.
I think Sr Maddog's first post answered my original question.
It's surely the combination of traction tires, truck mounted couplers, and deep flanges that makes that tight/steep helix work.
In case anyone is curious, here's a link to the video that got me interested:
Randy - a standard European passenger car is 86.7 ft. long and a regular freight train usually has 40+ cars behind the loco - not that short, I´d say. The days of 4-wheel bobbing cars are long gone, unless you model the 1960´s.
Most of the freight rolling stock is shorter yes, but passenger cars are far more prevalent in the UK vs. the US, so UK modelers would be more likely to be running them being they are so much more common and part of the RR scene. Being that they are around 8x feet, they are still fairly long cars (or monsters as you called them) so curve radii is still a significant factor. Same in Germany when visited there on four lengthy summer visits.
That said, American modeling in the UK is very popular. At the club I visited, I'd guess at least half of the trains/layouts there were running US HO trains, and one was running US G scale trains - including a D&RGW SD45 and SP GP9!