Just a few of philosophical ideas that keep me from succumbing to paralysis by analysis:
In my own work the only thing that's fixed is trackwork that's in, wired, tested and signed off by the lead civil engineer. There's an entire peninsula that is set in un-hardened Jell-o. I have schematic diagrams, but won't know just how they fit until I lay things out full size with bent (and some un-bent) flex track. Even then, there's no guarantee that the first iteration will be the final configuration.
Our 1:1 scale brethren seldom get things right for the ages first cookie out of the box. Just go along the UP route across Wyoming and note the widened curves, adjusted alignments and such. AT&SF made major (as in moved over several miles) changes in Arizona, and re-routed through a different state when they got tired of bucking Raton Pass. The Moffatt Tunnel route rerouted through the mountain instead of over it. And the list goes on.
One last thought. Get wheels rolling early. As soon as the first length of flex is fixed in place, put a 44 tonner (or teakettle) on the rails, couple up a gondola and put it to work moving track nails and rail joiners. I can't think of a better incentive to keep extending the line.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Santa Fe all the way!Wow, alot of your responses are striking a chord with me. I think that one thing that has really messed with my head is I started this layout once before and then tore it down after I realized it had serious problems. That was an expensive lesson. As someone mentioned, I feel I need to get trains running. Maybe I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed by the enormity of the task before me? The layout will be around the walls of two 13.5' x 13.5' rooms. I'm going to just going to have to take a deep breath and go for it, I guess.
If you haven't built and torn down at least one layout because you were unhappy with it, then your doing it wrong!
Santa Fe all the way!... I have decided much of what I want to include, but I think Im putting too much pressure on myself not to "blow it". I want a model railroad that I'm proud of and I can post pictures of without a ton of people saying I did something "wrong" I'm confident in my skills at building structures, scenery, track laying , wiring, but the track plan is what is worrying me. ...
Good pictures tend to come from areas of "scenery" with minimal amounts of track, so track planning skills are largely irrelevant to the goal of good pictures. (At the other end of the spectrum, operations are very dependent on track planning skills.) So your large loop around the walls concept is a good approach to your goals that will keep the track plan simple: broad radius curves, only one route through each scene (not a "bowl of spagetti" design), single track main line. Think about "scenes" you would like to create and fit the track to the scene. John Armstrong's track planning books have a simple approach of "track planning squares" that will give you an easy way to estimate what will fit in your available space.
Grinnell
I think a good plan is important. If you're not happy or confident in the plan, then for me at least, I'm not sure what the point is to proceed. I think I would just work on some diorama like things to incorporate into a layout later.
As I think about this, I'm not really sure what "done right" actually means.
I like track planning myself. My father is an architect so I grew up learning how to draw in scale. I dont know if drawing is the issue of wondering if something is "done right" or not. Is this a mechanical issue of making sure things flow and fit correctly? If it is, you could take a drafting class at community college?
Or is the issue prototipical operations? If it is, you must study and copy the prototype. Or, get David Barrow's yard throat article, or MR's industry along the tracks and freight yards booklets? I'm sure you have plenty of materials? If you understand what the railroad and industry does, then how could the design not be "done right"? Even if its basic, compressed, and simplified.
I guess in short confidence is going to defeat paralysis. Then, give yourself the allowance that things dont need to be exactlty perfect, its ok to make mistakes, and if: "I dont like it, I can fix it (I have an awesome set of tools!)".
A couple of thoughts come to mind here. First of all, yes, that's a pretty normal feeling. I demo'd my old layout about 18 months ago, and started building my "dream" layout, only to decide I didn't like what I was doing and redesign it again. And right about then, my oldest boy started college and lack of funds slowed me down still more.
But I do think alot of people misinterpret "do it once, do it right", or "there's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over." What this means -- and I think most management consultants would agree -- is that you should invest the effort necessary to do a good job up front, not slipshod work that might not measure up to the requirements of the task. It does NOT refer to what we are talking about here.
Model railroading (as well as many projects in business), involve making decisions, assumptions, and projections in an uncertain environment, developing goals, and then attempting to meet those goals. Often, at then end of a project (or even in the middle of it), it becomes apparent that one or more of the initial parameters was inaccurate or poorly defined, and rework becomes necessary. Because the future is inherently unknowable, this is a normal and necessary risk of progress. So, in business, as in model railroading, the proper philosophy is Franklin Roosevelt's: "It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something.
Take your best shot at what your goals and objectives are, and then try your best to meet them. If, after all is said and done, your goals turn out to be less than satisfactory, revaluate and try again. But don't waste your time trying to achieve perfection in a future planned project. Reality will usually interfere.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
This is the same place I'm at. Getting back in after 20 years on keeping them in boxes. I built my around the walls framework and laid 2" foam board and for the last few weeks have been just laying track down to get an idea of what I like don't like. I find I get frustrated because I look at these small empires in model railroader and want to do what they have done, but then realize I can't due to space limitations.
With some advice on the forms I have made a list of what I want to include on my layout and also thinking of having a small area where I can make different modules and depending on what I want to do I can add it in or remove it.
When trains are running this is supposed to be relaxing and fun. I want my little empire to be something where I can get away into my own little world.
Sounds like you already have enough information to "start". Just start building your benchwork! You have two rooms for an around the walls layout. You know what aisle widths, entrance/egress issues, shelf width, that sort of thing. I am betting that if you start the benchwork the rest will come to you.
That's what I did! Of course, I had additional motivation in that I was afraid if I didn't start, one of my kids would try to move back in! It took me 19 years to get that room and I wasn't going to give it up!
Remember, "a journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step!"
Good luck!
Tim
Santa Fe all the way!I've been into model trains for 42 years(since I was 6 years old) I've been soaking up information on most aspects of the hobby for a long time. Since purchasing my home in 2001,I've been trying to build my dream layout,but haven't gotten very far. This is very discouraging. I have decided much of what I want to include, but I think Im putting too much pressure on myself not to "blow it". I want a model railroad that I'm proud of and I can post pictures of without a ton of people saying I did something "wrong" I'm confident in my skills at building structures, scenery, track laying , wiring, but the track plan is what is worrying me. Track planning is my weakness. It's going to be very simple,basically a large loop with a few passing/industry sidings. Has anyone been paralysed into inaction because not wanting to screw it up? What did you do to get past this?
Lots of good advice so far, but that won't stop me from adding my...well, Canada no longer uses pennies, and prices are rounded either up or down, so what would have been my becomes.... nothing. You may take it as such, too, if you wish.
Track planning isn't my strength either, and I quickly decided to not worry about it. My layout is an around-the-room type with passing sidings and industrial tracks. It's meant as a point-to-point, although I did include provision for continuous running for those times when somebody wants to "see the trains run". In retrospect, I was fortunate to lose part of a fairly regular shaped layout room to other family uses, and ended-up with the room shown here:
The portion which is actually layout is what was left after I decided where (and how wide) the aisles should be. Somewhere along the line, I also decided that I could recoup the lost portion of the room by adding a second deck over part of the layout shown. Most of the layout is cut-out 3/4" plywood roadbed atop open grid framing. There was no trackplan: I simply layed the roadbed with the widest curves which would fit into the ten corners of the room, then connected those with straight(ish) track. Pretty well wherever there was a wide spot, I added a "town", each one with a passing siding and some industrial track. This resulted (as on many layouts) in the towns being too close together, and much of the industrial tracks requiring switchback moves to service.
Is it ideal? Of course not, but it is fun to operate and keeps me as busy as I wish (skip doing those chores which you don't feel like doing, whether when building the layout or operating it). For the former, it's usually not all that difficult to add or delete something, and for the latter, skip or not as you see fit.Of course, the layout is nowhere near finished, with the second level only recently in place but with the track not yet laid.Would I change anything? Not in this room, although if I were to move, I might create something simpler (and easier to "finish"), but that has more to do with changing tastes and preferences than with planning or dissatisfaction with what I have.
If you're interested in posting pictures, one of the first things you'll notice is your own mistakes - the camera is a harsh critic, but remember that you, as the photographer, are the first one to experience that criticism of your own photos. When you look at your photos and notice that wheel off the track or an LPB who's fallen flat on his face, correct the problem and re-shoot the picture - it still may not be perfect, but only you can decide if it's worth sharing. Also, keep in mind that some folks here don't even have layouts or at least operating layouts. That shouldn't deter anyone from sharing their work, though - you could create dioramas for photographic purposes, or, as I do, treat the "finished" areas of your layout as photo locales and omit the rest (unless you have a question for which a picture of the unfinished area will best explain it or will show someone else a solution to a problem puzzling them).In my opinion, there are far too few photos posted in this Forum, and part of that may be due to fear of being judged. For the most part, though, I think that people enjoy seeing them and most will have either kind comments or no comments. Some may offer constructive criticism - taken in the intended manner, it can make you a better modeller. There are, of course, those who can't express their thoughts tactfully and others who simply wish to tear you down - the former aren't necessarily aware of their particular shortcoming, but you do need to have somewhat of a "thick skin". The latter are often ones who have nothing of their own to offer for either praise or criticism and will usually be put in their place by others.My advice to you is to get started: you know the size of the room, you know how wide you can make the layout and what's needed for aisle space. Decide on the preferred construction method: table top, open grid, L-girder, foam or plywood and build the benchwork. The hardest part of any project is starting it - once you start it, it will take on a life of its own and draw you along with it. Do it! Just do it!
Wayne
I think you'll find that you're in pretty good company here. Many of us, myself included, had this same problem. My first step was to design a layout using one of the layout design software packages. Some, like XtrakCad, are free, while others are payware. I found this an invaluable experience, although that's where I got bogged down in "analysis."
My solution was a trip to Home Depot. Once I had the lumber sitting in my garage, I found the will to build the benchwork and proceed from there. Once you start, the momentum is pretty powerful.
And yeah, you will make mistakes, and discover things you could have done better. You can change your track plan as you start laying track and get a better physical view of it. I like to make cardboard mockups of buildings as I go along, to better imagine the finished product. And, once it's all down, you can tear it up and do it differently if you must.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I did not over analzse, I planned my tables, with provisions for Staging There, Working yard here, town one there, mine branch here, etc.
Then as I started in each area, refined so operations and scenery might work.
Changes were made more than once until I got to the far town.
The operating scheme came later, as it is easy to decide that a factory can make something else to generate traffic.
As well as not ballasting, don't paint your flex track until you are happy.
Building a model pike is Fun, running trains is Fun, operating is Fun.
Have Fun
Dave
In a way, I feel like I've gotten myself into that corner in designing my layout, but then, I CAN'T start buulding yet - much as I want to (even to put up something temporary - I suppose I COULD do that, but then what?). I have a lot of work to do before beginning actual layout construction, and now is not the time of year to do so, plus witht he scope involved, I feel I need some professional help with this, and I have budgeted that into things to start working on it this summer, so I need to be patient. While I've somewhat stalled on layout design, it's also a good bit of procrastination as I have no need to have a completed plan right now, today. I have all Spring and Summer to finalize the plan, perhaps begin building next Fall and Winter.
If it goes like my previous layout, I will come up with a 'final' plan, stare at it a few more weeks, and then just get to building. My plans aren;t drawn to be built to the exact fraction of an inch anyway, more as a general guide for the location of tracks, and to validate that what I am trying to put in a given area will actually fit. The finished product resembles the plan, but print it out full size and use the plan as a template? Not happening, except possibly in some tight crticial areas.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Santa Fe all the way!Track planning is my weakness. It's going to be very simple,basically a large loop with a few passing/industry sidings.
I'm surprised that nobody has suggested it so far, but why don't you just post the plan and solicit opinions and suggestions? There are a lot of folks here that will offer opinions for you to consider. One of the forum regulars is working on ideas for a new layout right now that is basically being "designed by committee" (of course he reserves veto power), but since he continues to post revisions, I assume it's working for him.
Make use of the resources available to you. And while you can make the argument that a good layout today is better than a great one 5 years from now, I would advise not starting construction before you have a plan you are confident in. You'll just end up getting frustrated and trashing it. You have "analysis paralysis" for a reason - you are not satisfied with what you have come up with so far. Don't ignore it, fix it.
I meant to procrastinate, but I didn't get around to it.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
IMO, the type of track plan you envision, a large loop with passing and industry sidings, does not really get "permanent" until you start building scenery, such as hills and mountains and water.
If you're going to use spline subroadbed or something similar, its much harder to redo the track work once its laid, so you would need to do more analysis up front.
Personally, I think the trackplan you envision has about the greatest chance of any to be made to look prototypical, which is why my next layout will be similar to what you describe.
Much of the fine tuning of the plan can be done as you are laying flextrack on the tabletop, so there is really no need to analyze the plan down to the nth degree before you start building.
- Douglas
THIS IS WHY LIONS DO NOT PLAN ANYTHING.
They just go ahead and do it. It is faster to re-do it than to do nothing at all.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
I would tell you: “Damn the torpedoes, Full Speed ahead”. Surely, in the length of time you have been involved, you have run across John Armstrong’s book “Track Planning for Realistic Operation”. Even if you have no interest in actual operation, the book covers how to make your layout realistic in how the track is laid out.
Getting locked up, as you have, it would seem that you are taking this hobby far too seriously! Use this as your motto: “This is a hobby, something I’m doing for fun”! Forget what others may think; or, say. This is all about what you want, not what you think others want you to do!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Santa Fe all the way!I'm confident in my skills at building structures, scenery, track laying , wiring, but the track plan is what is worrying me. Track planning is my weakness. It's going to be very simple,basically a large loop with a few passing/industry sidings. Has anyone been paralysed into inaction because not wanting to screw it up? What did you do to get past this?
If the track plan is as simple as a large loop with a few passing/industry sidings, just build it. If you are not satisfied with the result, tear it down and start over. As long as it is not ballasted abd landscaped, everything should be reusable.
How big is the layout surface? Are you happy with that part? I say, get going.
Rich
Alton Junction
SFatw,
"Maybe I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed by the enormity of the task before me? The layout will be around the walls of two 13.5' x 13.5' rooms."
In such a case I would, personally, consider beginning with a smaller section of my dream layout, a yard, an industry or a small industrial sector, a part of the main line with a siding or two. Any thing that is small enough to gives me the sense I did something and motivates me to continue.
I began myself with a project that was to big and I sometimes postponed what was to be done just because I was overwhelmed.
Dive in and enjoy.
Guy
Modeling CNR in the 50's
For me, no matter how good the plan is, once I lay some track and run some trains, I make changes. Heck I'm making changes while puttting down the roadbed. On this, my 7th or so, layout, I have a rough plan that I finalize as I go.
Since you are uncertain about the plan, I suggest you get some sectional track down, lay it down loosely and put in some mockup buildings. See how it looks. Hook up the track to a power pack and run some trains. Rearrange until you have got something that looks and runs well.
Good luck
Paul
I know this feeling quite well, as I share at right at this moment. I have come up with a plan and am just about to start construction of what will definitevely be my last layout, but something keeps me from jumping in. I can´t really specify the reason, but, just like you, I want this layout to be perfect - for my own needs, which most likely differ a lot from other opinions on it.
How to overcome this feeling? I wish I knew! Just a few thoughts which may help you:
Here is a little bit of reading on this issue:
Confessions of a Mediocre Model Railroader
last mountain & eastern hoggerSome would say my layout isn't perfect and I suppose it isn't, but it sure works for me and really that is all that matters. Have fun, that is what it is all about. The other way, you are making it W--K. not allowed to say that word here.......
A lot of this tendency is accounted for by a concern with "getting it right the first time." As Bear mentioned, this was a standard our forebears found was the secret of success in the w..king world. While one doesn't need to buy into the "model rring as art" approach some of us use, the need to find inspiration before you do you best effort is what I've found is often best for me. And what I do is often best considered as a work in progress. It's often easier and quicker to pencil in the last few details once you can see the way what you've done already contributes to the scene.
Even when you follow your plan exactly, once things are coming together you may see it in a different light. And you won't see that if you don't start...
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Yes I did that too. In fact I wasted what I think was about 2.5 years of dithering and rethinking and finally I said enough..... and just started to build. What I have learned is if you are not sure just don't ballast right then as everything we do can easily be redone if we make a mistake. Even after ballasting is done, it might be a little harder, but you can still redo it if it isn't right for you.
Don't waste any more time, just get at it and get some trains running and that in itself helps you make descions.. This sure worked for me. Some would say my layout isn't perfect and I suppose it isn't, but it sure works for me and really that is all that matters. Have fun, that is what it is all about. The other way, you are making it W--K. not allowed to say that word here.......
Johnboy out...............
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
Santa Fe all the way! Has anyone been paralysed into inaction because not wanting to screw it up?
Santa Fe all the way!What did you do to get past this?
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Often myself. And then after I build it, I'm always rethinking "did I mess up?" I think some of this is natural, yet, at the risk of starting another of "those" threads, I also think the magazine articles and pictures have raised the bar so high, it has become intimidating to many. Basically everything I want to do breaks someones rules of the right way to model railroad.
Best advice I can say is to ignore all the experts and do what you want. If you don't like something it's easy to change. Just go for it.
jim