I did a search on the above topic and the search produced no results. I find this hard to believe as I recall seeing many thread dealing with CAD programs being used for designing layouts.
Anyway, I am considering tearing down my current HO Northern Pacific layout and starting over with an Sn3 layout. Are there any CAD programs that are cheaper than $50.00 for doing this. Free would even be better!
Thanking you in advance.
Mark
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Have you tried using SCARM? It's free and it has a large catalog of built-in track manufacturers, scales and types. Not sure if it's what you're looking for, but I figured I'd put it out there.
Mark,
CAD systems don´t design layouts, you do it. What they do is to draw a layout according to your design. They also help you to perform a kind of "sanity check", i.e. grades, minimum radius, track spacing etc.
There are a number of freebies around:
XtrkCAD
SCARM
AnyRail (the free version is limited to 50 pieces of track).
RTS from Atlas is unfortunately not available anymore.
All of these programs have quite a learning curve to them - you may find the use of paper and pencil much faster.
I am using WinRail (the paid version of RTS) to draw my track plans. I use the draw function of it to prepare fairly detailed drawings helping me visualize what I am about to build.
Here is a pic of my current layout project:
A Marklin HO tinplaqte layout I did for a friend:
... and my favorite plan:
I recently downloaded a free copy of SCARM and it is fairly easy to use. They have a library of most brands of track and turnouts. The user has control of flex track radius, lengths etc. It also allows you to draw your layout boundries and building shapes in 3D as well as roads. You can also view in 3D.
I am very good at drawing things out with pencil and paper. I guess I will go that way. However, I thought it would be fun to mess with a simple CAD program, do all the thinking and rearranging of stuff without using one piece of paper. I can and will go back to the old tried and true.
I've been using Anyrail, and for me its pretty easy to use. Best one I used so far. I even printed the design to a PDF and took it to a UPS store to have then print it out to full scale size 166 pages, now i just join the pages together on my table and i can see how everything is going to look. Also takes the guess work out of mesuring curves.
My 13x9 L Shape Garage Layout build
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/225242.aspx
I liked the (free) XTrackCAD, but diddled with it over 3 winters before making the plunge. If you give it a shot, be sure to do the tutorial.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
If you have a Mac, try Empire Express by Haddon software. It is easy to use and learn; it is inexpensive; it is 2D without a lot of bells and whistles but it does the job-after you do the basic design, as noted by others!
Dante
dante If you have a Mac, try Empire Express by Haddon software. It is easy to use and learn; it is inexpensive; it is 2D without a lot of bells and whistles but it does the job-after you do the basic design, as noted by others! Dante
Nope, I have IBM and using Winows 8 which I think SUCKS!
When attempting to Downlaod XtrackCAD and SCARM, my McAfee Virus protection software tells me I'm attempting to download "spyware and viruses"! I guess I don't need a free CAD program that includes all that crap! Only Anyrail downloaded without warnings!
I will give it a try, we'll see how "Intuitive" this program is?
I really enjoy using SCARM. I worked on my layout for 6 months with 3 major redesigns before I actually started building my layout. I had the same download issues with XtrackCAD. But I none with SCARM.
If you do go the pencil paper route, I bought this pad of giant graph paper at Staples for $7.00. On this drawing each square represents 1 foot. In my down time at work I would roughly draw things out on a small peace of graph paper on a clip board and move it on to this big one later.
Please ignore the layout drawing in this photo as it is nothing like the one I ended up with. I had put in everything I wanted and then brought out the eraser when reality set in.
I like designing houses with a CAD program and think they are great, however for some reason and I don't know why, I still like pencil and paper for designing layouts.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
BATMAN If you do go the pencil paper route, I bought this pad of giant graph paper at Staples for $7.00. On this drawing each square represents 1 foot. In my down time at work I would roughly draw things out on a small peace of graph paper on a clip board and move it on to this big one later. Please ignor the layout drawing in this photo as it is nothing like the one I ended up with. I had put in everything I wanted and then brought out the eraser when reality set in. I like designing houses with a CAD program and think they are great, however for some reason and I don't know why, I still like pencil and paper for designing layouts.
Please ignor the layout drawing in this photo as it is nothing like the one I ended up with. I had put in everything I wanted and then brought out the eraser when reality set in.
Brent, what size is that tablet? That looks like the perfect method of doing this!
Rich
Alton Junction
NP2626Brent, what size is that tablet? That looks like the perfect method of doing this!
The pad is 35 1/2"x 24". The squares are 1" and there are (were) 50 sheets on the pad. I made it so 1" represented 1' in the plan. I first drew an outline of the room and if you look on the bottom of the plan in the photo you can see where I drew the fireplace and hearth as an example. Also doors at the top.
I used the high school geometry set for drawing, and for getting curve radius I used the squares as a guide to set the compass, ie; 2 squares is 24". I also made up a key on the bottom of the sheet to set my compass by for other radius measurements such as 30". I used millimetres as this made drawing curves much more accurate than trying to chop up inches.
Buy a new eraser when you go to Staples, a new eraser is much easier on the paper. When I erased right through the paper I just decided a bridge would go there.
Good luck.
NP2626Nope, I have IBM and using Winows 8 which I think SUCKS! When attempting to Downlaod XtrackCAD and SCARM, my McAfee Virus protection software tells me I'm attempting to download "spyware and viruses"! I guess I don't need a free CAD program that includes all that crap! Only Anyrail downloaded without warnings! I will give it a try, we'll see how "Intuitive" this program is?
The problem is that you're using McAfee as your virus protection
I've been using SCARM for 1 1/2 years now and I've never had any issues in regards to viruses so don't let McAfee fool you.
I know this is off topic, but I would recommend switching to the Microsoft Security Essentials and Malwarebytes for your computer security. They're both free and work great. Oh and I totally agree about Windows 8.
If you haven't done so, upgrade to 8,1 so you get your start menu back, just liek WIn 7 (well, close enough to be completely usable). If you want it EXACTLY like WIn 7, there are some freeware Start Menu replacements that make it looka nd behave exactly the same. WIn 8 drives me nuts - 8,1, I am ready to go ahead and install now. Workign with servers, this is the same as Server 2012 R2, which I'm finding to be just fine. Server 2012, same as Win 8 - yuck.
DO agree switching AV. MSE is free AND it usually ranks pretty high. I've tried a few different free ones - MSE seems to have much less overhead than the others.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
On topic: Stick with pencil and paper. CAD is for those who have forgotten how to hold a pencil . If you have to use a CAD proggy, personally I recommend the Atlas RTS ver 7. Its blatently easy to use and produces drawings equal to the photoshopped versions you see in MR magazine with a little help from MS Paint (which it directly will interact with, unknown if other CADs do this.).
Off topic: Switch back to Win7. For those who dont know, or even cared to know.... Win8 is Win7. The only difference, Win8 is made for touch screens.
Win8's core code is Win7, its GUI (GUI is the part that you the user interacts with) is different. Thats it thats all. So all youd lose is that stinking apple iphone looking desktop that NO ONE WANTS. Operationally, there is NOTHING 8 can do that 7 cant do just as fast, or just as good. Its the same!
And before you do it, DO NOT upgrade to 8.1. That is a mistake. Your just polishing the proverbial t**d by doing that, not fixing the problem.
As another user stated, switch to Malwarebytes Anti-malware. McAfee and Norton are such system hogs, they are as bad as a virus themselves! Also get yourself a copy of "Ad-Block". Of all softwares ive come across since i started in programming (the 80's) this is the best computer application ever made! BAR NONE!! Both are free, and both are for Windows!
PM RailfanI recommend the Atlas RTS ver 7. Its blatently easy to use and produces drawings equal to the photoshopped versions you see in MR magazine
Atlas-branded RightTrack CAD has been discontinued for some time. It was a stripped-down version of the commercial program WinRail.http://www.winrail.com/
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
I use a pencil and a CAD program. No, I don't write on my computer screen! That would be like the guy who marked his favourite fishing spot by putting an X in the bottom of his boat.
I use 3rdPlanIt and really like it, but I prefer to keep pencil notes of things like switch requirements and structure lists including the things that need to be done to them, i.e. cutting gaps in the turnout rails, adding lighting and details to a structure etc.
I'm an admitted computer dinosaur. At least with the pencilled lists I know that I am looking at the latest version every time. Also, I don't have to scroll down the page to see all of the info!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
cuyama Atlas-branded RightTrack CAD has been discontinued for some time. It was a stripped-down version of the commercial program WinRail.http://www.winrail.com/
Thats why I mentioned it as RTS. A stripped down version may possibly have a lesser learning curve than Winrail, and hopefully be a pinch easier to use. I keep hearing RTS has been discontinued. However, I just dloaded a copy of v7 to upgrade my earlier RTS version in the last 2 years from somewhere. Its still out there.
EDIT: heres a link for 4 versions of RTS.....
http://trainweb.org/seaboard/layouts.htm
PM RailfanThats why I mentioned it as RTS
RTS is short for RightTrack Software.
It was no easier to use than WinRail, it was just hamstrung by only offering Atlas components.
PM Railfanheres a link for 4 versions of RTS.....
Those are unauthorized copies with no support, so caveat downloader.
An unsuspecting newbie who downloads one of those versions and finds that it crashes or won't open after a Microsoft upgrade and leaves them unable to access their files would be in a bad spot.
By the way: A friend lost several weeks' worth of work when a Microsoft OS upgrade rendered RTS version 10 unstable (and unrecoverable). He had to re-do the entire layout from scratch. Sometimes “free” costs more than one expects.
cuyama PM Railfan Thats why I mentioned it as RTS RTS is short for RightTrack Software. It was no easier to use than WinRail, it was just hamstrung by only offering Atlas components. PM Railfan heres a link for 4 versions of RTS..... Those are unauthorized copies with no support, so caveat downloader. An unsuspecting newbie who downloads one of those versions and finds that it crashes or won't open after a Microsoft upgrade and leaves them unable to access their files would be in a bad spot. By the way: A friend lost several weeks' worth of work when a Microsoft OS upgrade rendered RTS version 10 unstable (and unrecoverable). He had to re-do the entire layout from scratch. Sometimes “free” costs more than one expects.
PM Railfan Thats why I mentioned it as RTS
PM Railfan heres a link for 4 versions of RTS.....
With all the twists, turns, confusion, up-grades and lost data caused by a lack of forward and backward thinking by the software developers, makes me wonder why anyone would use CAD, to design anything as simple as a model railroad? Radius templates, compass', straight edges, pencil and paper are still easy enough to find and the method has worked without up-grades since the beginnings of the mechanical age. Call me old fashion and a dinosaur; but, this is the system of choice for me!
I know that CAD is a powerful tool, necessary to business and here to stay! I just don't need; or, want it!
Speaking as a fellow dinosaur, I love the tactile feel of an old-fashioned pencil on good-quality paper. A compass that actually punches a little hole at the center of a curve. A protractor and a 30/60 and a couple French curves and a simple straightedge. Some sandpaper to make a really fine point.
"I love the smell of pencil shavings in the morning!"
Tom
NP2626 cuyama PM Railfan Thats why I mentioned it as RTS RTS is short for RightTrack Software. It was no easier to use than WinRail, it was just hamstrung by only offering Atlas components. PM Railfan heres a link for 4 versions of RTS..... Those are unauthorized copies with no support, so caveat downloader. An unsuspecting newbie who downloads one of those versions and finds that it crashes or won't open after a Microsoft upgrade and leaves them unable to access their files would be in a bad spot. By the way: A friend lost several weeks' worth of work when a Microsoft OS upgrade rendered RTS version 10 unstable (and unrecoverable). He had to re-do the entire layout from scratch. Sometimes “free” costs more than one expects. With all the twists, turns, confusion, up-grades and lost data caused by a lack of forward and backward thinking by the software developers, makes me wonder why anyone would use CAD, to design anything as simple as a model railroad? Radius templates, compass', straight edges, pencil and paper are still easy enough to find and the method has worked without up-grades since the beginnings of the mechanical age. Call me old fashion and a dinosaur; but, this is the system of choice for me! I know that CAD is a powerful tool, necessary to business and here to stay! I just don't need; or, want it!
It's all in the "you get what you pay for" sometimes. My plans from my layout over 10 years ago still open in the most current version to 3rd PlanIt. That was over 10 years, 4 computers, and 3 versions of Windows ago when I started those designs.
BATMAN If you do go the pencil paper route, I bought this pad of giant graph paper at Staples for $7.00. On this drawing each square represents 1 foot. In my down time at work I would roughly draw things out on a small peace of graph paper on a clip board and move it on to this big one later. I like designing houses with a CAD program and think they are great, however for some reason and I don't know why, I still like pencil and paper for designing layouts.
I like pencil and graph paper for layout design too. There is very good reason for this. I can scale everything out and draw the room boundaries and then visually imagine where layout components go like curves, turns, yeads etc. I can do this better with an 11x17 sheet of graph paper scaled out, better than a computer screen which I can't necessarily put a scale rule up to and meausure 1 inch = whatever scale.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
rrinker It's all in the "you get what you pay for" sometimes. My plans from my layout over 10 years ago still open in the most current version to 3rd PlanIt. That was over 10 years, 4 computers, and 3 versions of Windows ago when I started those designs. --Randy
And I just now tossed my layout plans drawn on my drawing board 26 years ago! Needed my drawing board to do another project and I had no use for the old plans anymore; so, I threw them. Sometimes the old ways of doing things have merit!
Nothing wrong with paper and pencil as long as you can school yourself to draw the turnout angles properly and sme with curves. It's too easy to 'cheat' on paper and end up with somthign that won;t fit or, if it does fit, won't run well becauseof artificial kinks.
-Randy
I've been using xtrackcad for years and although it has a bit of a learning curve, it does have great features like test running with trains which is great for figuring how many exact lengths of cars can fit in a siding etc. Another great feature is your able to add elevations and it gives you exact measurements for height and I've used this with great success on my last layout for setting up a perfect 2% grade from 0 elevation down to a below staging yard. If your track plan fits on the benchwork you design for your room then the railplan you make can be printed and placed on the benchwork, mind you this only works if there is a solid top benchwork because obviously the paper has to be layed out.
Lynn
Present Layout progress
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/290127/3372174.aspx#3372174
I haven't seen it mentioned here but when I was designing my layout I used CadRail from Sandia Software.
http://www.sandiasoftware.com/
I made several version upgrades but not since V 7. I believe they are up to V10 now. I don't know about Win7 compatibility but it still runs fine on an old XP machine I have.
The ability to make LAYERS is a great advantage of CAD programs. You can experiment with various design elements on several layers and make changes without affecting other layers. You can also do scenery (tunnels, bridges) structures and even your buss wiring and power districts on individual layers so if you want to work on certain details it won't change anything else.
Another advantage is the ability to make changes, say you want to make ALL your 24" radii to 25.75 or so. You can do it with a few mouse clicks and everything adjusts automatically.
One place I had to do some tweaking was where a commercial turnout, say Walthers Shinohara code 83, if placed as a crossover I would have to trim an inch or so off the diverging route in order to maintain a 2" track center.
Yes, the learning curve was slightly steep but after a few tutorials and playing with small segments it wasn't so bad.
Presently, I have a need to print and laminate some track diagrams to help operators through some of the interlocking plants and junctions. A CAD program will make it nice to do just that. I want to map out my power districts, too since, as I add scenery, I am covering over the notes that I had drawn on the roadbed in regards to gaps and feeders and which is rail A, etc.
Another old producer of RR software was Abracadata (remember them?) they are DBA Liquidateher or something:
http://www.theliquidateher.com/railroad-windows.html
I can not say if any of their products are worthwhile or not but I have used their EZ Architect software and it is pretty decent for the price.
Just my 2¢ Good Luck, Ed
Actually Atlas' RTS is available as a free download. I don't know which version is available from all sites, but Google "atlas rts" and there are many hits.
Speaking of RTS, I was wondering if anyone had successfully ported the Atlas Library to a Win 7 64bit compatible file format. Long ago i purchased the complete Atla library and RTS version 8 from Atlas, and have been running it in an XP virtual machine on my Win 7 Pro 64 bit machine. I recently contacted LOGOS Library software (Atlas must have uased their software for the Library) and they got me upgraded to Logos 5 (that is Win 7 Pro 64 bit compatible) but they are now a Bible Library company, and don't seem to know anything about the old Atla Library. Just thought i would ask. i will post this as a new thread. Thanx!