Picking a season-fall/winter

[Anonymous]

So I'm almost done forming my land, the foam is carved and glued down and all that's left is a nice coating of sculptamold. Once that's done I have to start adding scenery and I'm torn between fall and winter. I know winter is not done often, but I thought of so many new opportunities with a winter scene--snow, snow, snow; Xmas lights on the houses, dowtown shops decorated for xmas; people shovelling their driveways; a nice little pond hockey setup(love this idea). But then I flip back to fall, a beautiful mountainside with trees in all of the fall colours, a nice cottage scene(maybe being closed up for the season) and obviously I can still have some water scenes(fishing/boating etc.) and most importantly alot more reference material/scenicking materials.

I'm not modeling a specific area/era, it's full freelance so there's no restriction there, and I know it comes down to personal preference but I was wondering if anyone had two cents to throw my way--maybe even a few winter examples(I've searched and only foud one on the internet).

JASON

[tstage]

Ya' know, Jason, it sometimes snows when the leaves are still brilliant on the trees. (Happened to me a couple of winters .)

Another thought. I don't know how big or small your layout is, but you could use a backdrop to divide your layout into two halves: One section could be scenicked autumn; the other, winter. Then you could have the best of both worlds. [:0]

Tom

[Anonymous]

Sorry, forgot the specifics--3X7(and change) N scale layout in the spare room. I think, with the small table size dividing would just make things too small, although the thought crossed my mind as well.

JASON

[tstage]

Jason,

I've seen photos of 4 x 8' layouts in HO with a backdrop down the middle that worked. You can cover quite a bit of acreage in N-scale one a 3 x 7. (That would about 6 x 14 for me in HO.)

Give it a try. You could probably run the backdrop diagonally in order to maximize the width of the scene. Course, it depends whether or not you will have access to all four sides of the table.

Let me know what you end up deciding.

Tom

[CNJ831]

Autumn and especially winter scenes are tough to model really well. I've done my modest-sized HO layout in peak autumn foilage (~500 trees) of the sort you see in the Northeast and it took me six months to get the colors blended just right. Winter is rather more difficult, requiring an awful lot of bare, twiggy, trees unless you depict parts of the mid-west. I know that Mike Tylick has done believable early winter scenes using certain types of bare weeds as trees but he's one of the few I've seen able to really get away with it. Scenic Express' Super Trees would probably do the job quite affectively but it wouldn't be cheap. Snow scenes are also difficult to keep pure white over time - many materials yellow or get dusty.

CNJ831

[willy6]

I'm modeling current circa,autumn. where i live at all colors work well in scenery.

[CBQ_Guy]

This is, of course, just my opinion, but I have so far never seen an autumn scene that completely looks right too me on a layout. The colors never seem to be dead on, and usually look wrong or too bright and gari***o my eye.

Too bad, as originally I was going to do a fall time of year on my layout. Because of the above observations, I have decided to go with late summer/early fall. That way, I can use some variation in the green, even using a hint of yellow here and there, to my trees so they don't all look pretty much the same color. As a side benefit, it also will coincide with the grain rush on my Midwestern, mostly rural branchline layout![^]

[Big_Boy_4005]

I have a tip for making your trees look better regardless the color of your foliage. The secret is spray paint. Complimentry colored highlights make a big difference. Yellow is a key for fall. Just a very light spray works wonders.

I like the idea of a diagonal backdrop, and doing both winter and fall. Personally I think winter is more difficult. Realistic placement of snow is tricky.

[ahuffman]

Take a look at the winter modelling article in the January and February 1996 Model Railroader. IMO, some of the most impressive scenic modelling I've ever seen done. Also check out the Paul Dolkos article on bare trees in the November 1993 MR. I think he has captured that austere, bare ground and trees late fall or very early spring effect very well.

[Jetrock]

A lot depends on the area you are modeling, or want to represent with your modeling. I suppose that a stereotypical "winter scene" includes snow, but there are plenty of places where it doesn't snow in winter (winter in Sacramento looks a lot like summer in much of the Midwest--rainy and cloudy, no snow at all. The only difference is the temperature and the lack of leaves.) While you are modeling no specific prototype, you'll probably have to make some decisions about the kind of winter/fall you want to represent, and what those scenes look like in different places.

Also keep in mind what sort of industry your railroad carries. If you model a lot of food-related industries (fruit & vegetable processing, grain mills, etc.) they don't do much business in winter, although in fall there is quite the rush of harvest-time business.

Personally I model late summer--both because my model railroad is very based on agricultural business, because the State Fair generated extra rail traffic at that time of year, and because Sacramento's blasting late-summer heat is the most distinguishing feature of the region.

[ondrek]

my layout will be a fall scene too. here is my catch- the mountain will have snow on it thought, this is completly possible as my layout will be vermont. so one could have a snow capped mountain with no leaves on the trees and then different levels of stages of the foliage coming down the mountain and having full peak in the town area. thats my vision.

[CNJ831]

ondrek - Are you actually a Vermonter or from New England? I'm from upper NY and in my experience what you are describing would normally be a very rare and unusual situation in spite of the differences in elevation. Peak foilage in most of Vermont occurs in early to mid-October, with the trees right down to the level of the Connecticut River Valley (the low point) being essentially bare by about the first week of November. Significant autumn snowfalls don't normally occur in Vermont, except on the highest peaks, prior to all the valley trees becoming leafless.

CNJ831

[ondrek]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

ondrek - Are you actually a Vermonter or from New England? I'm from upper NY and in my experience what you are describing would normally be a very rare and unusual situation in spite of the differences in elevation. Peak foilage in most of Vermont occurs in early to mid-October, with the trees right down to the level of the Connecticut River Valley (the low point) being essentially bare by about the first week of November. Significant autumn snowfalls don't normally occur in Vermont, except on the highest peaks, prior to all the valley trees becoming leafless.

CNJ831

I am a vermonter, i live in springfield, VT.
I have seen it do just that, be mid oct, where the trees here in the CT river valley are still colorful and have snow on the ground at the same time. infact, in 2002 we got 3" of snow the day before Oct 23rd, i know this for a fact because ist the day my daughter was born. we have pics of my son playing in it the morning she was born, it had already started melting too.
I know of another one too. get this....now, its not the fall, but still...May17th 2003, almost summer right? a bicycle race in Sunapee, NH gets CANCILED due to 2-3" of snow collecting on the road, thats the road, not the ground, there was more on the ground. I was there at the sunapee ski area helping with the bike race registrations and a guy not for the race came up and hicked up the mt and skied down the trails!

it may not happen often, but that doesnt mean we cant do it, its our little world right?

Also, there are some trees, such as the ones in my back yard, who year after year take a long time to turn. they are maples, but they were still green until the last week of oct. then they turned yellow real fast and finally after last nights rain/snow the leaves are on the gound. the snow didnt stick though. so sometimes the foliage can linger.

here is another, now, its not vermont, but still....Mt washington. i remember driving home from work, I work in Lyme, NH north of hanover, NH(yeah, its 50miles one way to work), i know i am not looking exacty at mt washington, but i am looking at a peak somewhere near there, and it was briliant white in the begining of oct. for two whole days it was snow capped. now like i said i dont know exactly what peak it was but it was in the mt washington direction.

plus i just like the idea of having the seasons mixing like that and its what i plan on doing, be it a rare occasion of not.

ok, no more ranting. it can happen thats all, It happens in upstate NY too, my boss has a house in Potsdam and he has mentioned it too.

Kevin

[CNJ831]

Kevin - I must bow to your personal observations! In the upper Hudson Valley it is quite rare to see the ground snow-covered with trees still in autumn foilage. Normally, our autumn color sweeps through, almost without regard to elevation, in about two weeks and trees are totally bare well before any snow falls.

Incidentally, I'm very fond of and familiar with Springfield, VT and have visited there many times over the years. For a long time I intended to model the Springfield Terminal Railway in HO but never did get to it. At one point I even planned on writing an article about modeling it for MR but was beaten to the punch by another gentleman who did it for RMC. I do still have a Bowser 0-gauge trolley kitbashed into one of the STRy cars that I run on my Christmas layout under the tree, plus a 44-tonner and a Baldwin-Westinghouse B-1 steeple cab in HO done up in STRy paint. Best of luck in modeling Springfield!

CNJ831

[ondrek]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

Kevin - I must bow to your personal observations! In the upper Hudson Valley it is quite rare to see the ground snow-covered with trees still in autumn foilage. Normally, our autumn color sweeps through, almost without regard to elevation, in about two weeks and trees are totally bare well before any snow falls.

Incidentally, I'm very fond of and familiar with Springfield, VT and have visited there many times over the years. For a long time I intended to model the Springfield Terminal Railway in HO but never did get to it. At one point I even planned on writing an article about modeling it for MR but was beaten to the punch by another gentleman who did it for RMC. I do still have a Bowser 0-gauge trolley kitbashed into one of the STRy cars that I run on my Christmas layout under the tree, plus a 44-tonner and a Baldwin-Westinghouse B-1 steeple cab in HO done up in STRy paint. Best of luck in modeling Springfield!

CNJ831

I know of the railroad you were going to model. I remember it, it was on its way out when i was a kid, but i remember one of the terminal buildings,

I dont plan on modeling Springfield, mine will be fictional, just based on a VT town.

if you ever plan on being around, let me know my door is open.

you can contact me, my email is in my profile.

Kevin

[Anonymous]

i think you should do a mid-fall with a light dusting of snow on the ground. in michigan this is common, well nothings common in michigan thats the nature of the state. but if you want to do christmas lights on houses, there are people that have them on there house all year round.just a thought, or you could do like a holloween type layout and use christmas lights as like pumkin lights around a house??? ~ChriSS

[Anonymous]

Winter makes for beautiful layout but I wonder if you would want it all the time. I model in late summer with some trees starting to turn.