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Y confused

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  • Member since
    November 2013
  • From: lake placid,n.y.
  • 47 posts
Posted by STANLEY O MONTGOMERY on Thursday, August 28, 2014 6:02 AM

after a lot of measuring i see a runaround would be the best way to go, i was looking at loco's like e7's and simlar deisels looking kind of funny pulling cars backwards,but switchers seem ok thanks

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern CA Bay Area
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Posted by cuyama on Thursday, August 28, 2014 12:57 AM

mlehman
To further add to the confusion -- or perhaps disambuguate it some more -- you can also use a wye as a runaround.

Based on other posts, the Original Poster is apparently planning a shallow shelf layout that is compact overall. The added depth of a wye is a fairly inefficient way to provide a runaround function in his case, since he doesn't seem to have any need to turn anything end-for-end. It is a bit difficult to know exactly what he is trying to do.

Forums certainly can complicate simple things.

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Posted by mlehman on Thursday, August 28, 2014 12:07 AM

cuyama
Are you sure that you don't just mean a runaround? That puts the engine on the other end of a string of cars so that you can switch spurs that are pointed in either direction. A runaround is essentially a double-ended passing siding.

To further add to the confusion -- or perhaps disambuguate it some more -- you can also use a wye as a runaround. The capacity of a wye used as a runaround track is the number of cars that will fit on its longest leg. In a place like Red Mountain, this feature of a wye came in handy. I have about twice the track available as the prototype in my version and being able to runaround cars via the wye still comes in handy every so often.

 

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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  • From: Canada, eh?
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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, August 27, 2014 10:48 PM

Here's a wye for turning stuff.  The dead-end tail track at upper left is long enough to accommodate a pair of Mikados or a Mike and a full-length passenger car.  I used wye-type turnouts at all three positions, as the main line is also curved.  As you can see, the wye doesn't take up a whole lot of room as the tail track runs into the corner of the room, an otherwise unused area.

 

Wayne

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Posted by mlehman on Wednesday, August 27, 2014 1:58 PM

I've had good luck with the PSX-AR. Not the cheapest, but not really expensive, either. It's plug and play, but can also be hooked-up/adjusted to suit specific operational conditions.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

  • Member since
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  • From: lake placid,n.y.
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Posted by STANLEY O MONTGOMERY on Wednesday, August 27, 2014 12:59 PM

I see what you mean now as for deriction for the loco to go it makes sense now, thanks,[ must be my main line is getting untangled] as far as a future reverse loop goes what would be a good but simple and low cost module , bachmann, lenz, or other brand reverse module.

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  • From: Northern CA Bay Area
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Posted by cuyama on Wednesday, August 27, 2014 12:40 PM

STANLEY O MONTGOMERY
about turnarounds with switches and so forth and i must have my mains crossed upstairs because i can get heads or tails in what they mean by throwing switches to bring loco back in differant derection

Are you sure that you don't just mean a runaround? That puts the engine on the other end of a string of cars so that you can switch spurs that are pointed in either direction. A runaround is essentially a double-ended passing siding.

Do you really need to turn the engine end-for-end on your compact layout? A turning wye will make your layout much deeper.

  • Member since
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  • From: lake placid,n.y.
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Posted by STANLEY O MONTGOMERY on Wednesday, August 27, 2014 12:29 PM

Smilethanks for the help Ithink i have it now, Ido see what you mean by the RR language, Iam going to use 1r hand turnout and 1 left hand turnout comming off main into a Y with dead end long enough for a loco and maybe 1or 2 cars so i still need a reverse module and what brand would be ok for a 5ft long module. thanks

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Posted by mlehman on Wednesday, August 27, 2014 11:55 AM

cowman
I think part of your problem is the confusing language of model railroading.

Richard,

You got that exactly right.ConfusedHuh?Cool

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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  • From: Central Vermont
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Posted by cowman on Wednesday, August 27, 2014 11:42 AM

Stanley,

I think part of your problem is the confusing language of model railroading. 

Turnout is the piece of track which the train can come in from one end and go in either of two directions or come from those directions onto the one line.

Switch is the confusing term.  Some use it the same as a turnout, because a train switches directions.  It can also be an electrical switch.

When creating a loop where a train goes over a turnout, around the loop and back over the same turnout onto the track it came from, is called a reverse loop.  They require special wiring.  Some of the methods (Atlas) of wiring require a special electrical switch, they have two varieties, depending on your preference to wire.  I won't go into tho methods, an Atlas wiring book has both well illustrated.

All it takes is one trunout to create a reversing loop, but it also takes an electrical switch also.

For DCC there are several manufacturers that make a special electrical part that you wire in to make the reversing loop work automatically.

Hope this helps a little, it's not all you, it's the English language using multiple terms for the same items.

EDIT;  Looking at the responses that came while I was typing.  Yes a Y takes 3 turnouts, they can be wye's or standard turnouts.  You still need to handle them with similar electrical switches to a reverse loop.

Good luck,

Richard

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Posted by mlehman on Wednesday, August 27, 2014 11:41 AM

You talking electrical switches or rail switches (turnouts)?

I can't speak to unitrack and what track section it needs specfifically to create a wye beyond the 2 turnouts and the wye turnout. So long as you have three turnouts and they connect in triangular fashion, you can physcially turn the loco's direction.

BTW, you don't actually need a wye turnout to make a wye track arrangement. All you need are three turnouts of any type connected in a triangular fashion. When a turnout is called a wye turnout, that means the two legs diverge in opposite directions equally, rather than to one side or the other like a conventional R or L turnout

Also don't confuse the wye turnout with the wiring/switches needed to make the wye track arrangement work electrically. Because you reverse the direction of the loco, at some point in the process, you must reverse the track polarity. In DC, you use a DPDT switch usually, although you can also rig contacts on the switche machines to do it. In DCC, you usually use an auto reversing unit, (it doesn't switch polarity, but the electrical "bias" of the power to do the same thing).

So two different wye concepts that work together, track and power. The key is gapping the "reversing section" -- essentially one leg of the wye and its turnout -- and feeding this electrically isolated section of track via a means to reverse its power, either a switch/DC or an auto reverser/DCC. You reverse the power when the train is in this section, then when it exits in the reverse direction, the power will line up across the gaps and you won't have a short. It helps if the reversing section is as long as your longest trains will be, but there are workarounds if that isn't posisble.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by davidmurray on Wednesday, August 27, 2014 11:32 AM

Stanley:

To turn an engine so that it goes from front end west to front end east uses the same principle as a three point turn in a car.

You need THREE turnouts, one or all of which may be "Y" turnouts.

You go down one line from a turnout, one a curved section of track,thru a reversed direction tunout, far enough to clear the point, back up on straight track thruthe secong turnout that you just went thru forwards, back into one side of the third tunout, Forward thru the other route down another curved track and forward to the route not used on the first turnout.

Each of the three tunouts has to have a long enough Y-tail to hold whatever you are tuning, one engine, a ABB set or an entire train.

This does that a fair amount of space.

Hope this helps.

Dave

David Murray from Oshawa, Ontario Canada
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Y confused
Posted by STANLEY O MONTGOMERY on Wednesday, August 27, 2014 11:17 AM

Cryingthis is a question that is already confusing to me; so here it goes; I"am making a kind of switching layout n scale with unitrack, and i have read some articles about turnarounds with switches and so forth and i must have my mains crossed upstairs because i can get heads or tails in what they mean by throwing switches to bring loco back in differant derection can't i just use 2 turnouts and a Y without extra switches. [need simple info, ready for melt down] thanks.

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