One other caution I would add is that kids will tend to try to 'hang' from the railing, especially if they are getting bored. In other words, they will put their full weight on the railing sometimes, so it will have to be sturdy.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
BroadwayLion CTValleyRR Electrical conduit may not be firm enough, and in any case isn't smooth, so you will have to pad it. EMT is certainly firm enough if you mount it according to the electrical code : ) Anyway, my choice for this stuff was dictated by the fact that I wanted outlets every 6' or so around the layout in order to eliminate extension cords on the floor. I do not expect kids to come in and grab it, and it is too low for that, but is just perfect for this old bag of lard to grab hold of smoething for "ballance" when him tries to get up from the knees of him. ROAR
CTValleyRR Electrical conduit may not be firm enough, and in any case isn't smooth, so you will have to pad it.
EMT is certainly firm enough if you mount it according to the electrical code : )
Anyway, my choice for this stuff was dictated by the fact that I wanted outlets every 6' or so around the layout in order to eliminate extension cords on the floor. I do not expect kids to come in and grab it, and it is too low for that, but is just perfect for this old bag of lard to grab hold of smoething for "ballance" when him tries to get up from the knees of him.
ROAR
Lions can't kneel, silly. They either sit on their haunches or lie flat out.
Of course, they don't have opposable thumbs either, so grabbing on is kind of out of the question, too.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
CTValleyRRElectrical conduit may not be firm enough, and in any case isn't smooth, so you will have to pad it.
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Erosebud,
While I understand your concept and your desire, take it from someone who uses his layout to conduct railroading merit badge classes -- YOU DO NOT WANT TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO TOUCH YOUR LAYOUT. What you envision as a rail to give people something to steady themselves on will be seen by others as somewhere to brace themselves while they lean in over your layout, grabbing and touching. I have a couple of "stadders" that I built of 2x4 and 1x3 lumber and 3/4" plywood. They have 1 or 2 9" steps and a railing of 1x3s around 3 sides, and a 6" wide shelf across the front, which both discourages leaning in and gives people a place to put things so they don't use the layout. Another problem with a hand rail is that children as old as 10 have a tendency, when excited, to grab a handrail and use it to steady themselves while they jump up and down with excitement, which isn 't kind to whatever that rail is attached to.
If, in spite of the many voices of experience here telling you what a risky idea you have, you want to go ahead with your plan, any of the previous suggestions will work. Your attachment points need to be solid, as in cross braced 2x4 lumber solid. While some of the options arent too heavy, eventually this railing will take 100+ pounds of force when someone loses his balance. Standard stair rail will work, as will 1-1/2" PVC pipe (it's plenty strong -- I used it as handrails on ladders in the kids treehouse. Likewise, the closetrail system will work. Electrical conduit may not be firm enough, and in any case isn't smooth, so you will have to pad it. Foam pipe insulation is generally not self-adhesive, and is commonly sold in bags of 3' strips, 6 pieces to a bag.
Good luck.
That black (or gray) foam pipe insulation is probably self-adhesive. But that doesn't prevent touching the layout edge. I believe your instincts are correct that you should have something that prevents touching the layout at all. However, anything that is fastened to the layout will still permit jarring of the structure by someone grabbing to prevent a fall or even to just hang onto and jiggle as kids are wont to do! Only a separate free-standing railing will prevent that sort of thing.
Dante
Sounds like you do plan for a considerable amount of the hand rails. Fir 1 3/8" can be bought in various lengths up to 16'. the standard brackets will work providing you have sufficient framework/ blocking @ the facia. If you feel the larger rails may look too cumbersome and detract from a clean facia, you could look into the "closet pole" used w/ closet systems such as Closet Maid, they're much smaller and the white metal poles could be spray painted if nec.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
On my layout I keep scenery to a minimum on the first 2 - 3 inches beause of my own carelessness and have glued down either gravel or WS fine turf. Some make roads along the edge. It sounds like having kids around the layout is important so why not make the area where they might grab kid proof.
If the kids are quite young you may be asking for trouble using stools.....depends on the age imo
Just My Worth
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
I think for a rail as you are describing I would use light weight electrical conduit. You may be able to get standoff that would hold it far enough from the layout edge to suit you. If you need it further off you might have to use a T and a short piece to a mounting flange. PVC pipe comes to mind, but I'm not sure it would be strong enough for your application, I have seen it used at shows, but more as a visible barrier, not a bump against.
Good luck,
Richard
I appreciate the observations and suggestions. But I believe, as one response mentions, that the instinct to put one's hands on the edge of the layout is powerful in adults and children. Although I do expect to add some handrails to my steps and stools, I'm really looking for ways to provide a more or less continuous "rail" that folks will naturally rest their fingers on instead of the scenery as they belly up to the fascia. I don't want to prevent them from touching the edge, as those plexiglas guards do (though they surely have their place). I just want something to grab, and the only thing I can think of is a standard handrail mounted close against and maybe a hair above the layout edge.
Somewhere on YouTube I saw, in a video on another layout subject altogether, an edge that had been covered with that black foam you insulate pipes with, bent into an L shape with maybe an inch of it on the layout surface and perhaps two inches down onto the fascia. I don't know how it was attached--contact cement?--but it had the added virtue of following the fascia laterally as it went above or below the mean height of the benchwork. I thought perhaps someone would have a similarly creative approach that stops short of barbed wire, broken glass, or some of the others I suspect we occasionally wish we had.
Guy Papillon Here is a folding stool with an integrated handrail... handle? I use it to reach far places. Easy to stow away too.
Here is a folding stool with an integrated handrail... handle? I use it to reach far places. Easy to stow away too.
Guy,
That is pretty darn cool. A Canadian product? I've not seen anything quite like it, although I have seen other steps, stools, etc with an upright handle attached for moving them about and giving a little balance. My balance isn't as good as it used to be -- I've given up my bike for an "adult" trike -- and I'm sure there are others it might be useful for, too.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Guy
Modeling CNR in the 50's
If your facia is well attached to something solid and firm like a doubled-up joist, how 'bout 4 inch "D" handles like you'd put on a garage overhead door. Low-cost, dependable, simple to install with 4 screws. Hardware aisle in a home center.
I go along with Mr B on this one. At shows I have seen steps, usually wide enough for a couple of kids, but wide enough for one should be fine for a home layout. With a handrail securely attached to the steps, it should be able to keep them from falling over. Also, in the current "SUE" mentality mindset, if a child should happen to fall and get a scratch, you have done something to protect them. Sad situation, but always something to think about. Also, having steps gives opportunity for kids of different heights to view from the "ideal" viewing height.
rrebell Trust me, even adults can't be trusted not to touch the scenery!!!!!!!!!!!
Trust me, even adults can't be trusted not to touch the scenery!!!!!!!!!!!
Amen!
Handicapped type hand rails, the sort about two feet long would help balance a kid on a stool.
LION has mounted 110v AC boxes all around the fascia (lower level) to prevent having extension cords on the floor. The boxes are connected with 1/2" EMT conduit which *I* can uses to help pull myself up from a kneeling position. It isn't easy to get up anymore, that is why I have no wires under the table.
In church we do not use kneelers in the choir, but the congregation is still supposed to use them. If I were in a different church I would just sort of half sit and half kneel. When visiting a Mosque, I usually sit in the back, but one time I tried to get down on the floor with the faithful. I supposed I looked like an arthritic bear trying to pull himeself out of a mud hole. I think I will stay in the back of the Mosques.
How solidly built is your benchwork? Mine is a 1x4 frame with 2x3 legs and 1x3 rafters. That's plenty strong enough for supporting a layout, but it's by no means "man-rated" and if someone pulled hard on the front it would likely do significant damage. My layout is not anchored to the wall, either.
I'd consider building steps with built-in handrails. That would also protect your layout by putting the barrier a bit further from the scenery.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I'm about to mount my fascia. The layout is designed with push-rod turnout controls and other features to make it kid-friendly, though not kid-centered. I have a number of step stools to assist the shorter visitors, but I'm wondering how to help them balance. Just now I'm thinking a regular stairway handrail is the simplest way to keep them from clutching at the scenic edge. Any other suggestions?