I am building a new layout in a basement, it will be about 12x6. What is the best overhead lighting.?
I am still undecided on the kind of lighting. However I would recommend having lighting that comes from all angles as to eliminate any shadows being cast. As my skill level in the modeling end of things has increased. So does my being bothered by unrealistic shadows from insufficient lighting.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
How high is the ceiling?
I like track lighting for its versatility and the ability to move the lights around and re-orient them to provide more or less lighting.
I would recommend dimmers, but make sure you get the kind that can be used with CFL bulbs.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
"Best" could mean a lot of things. If you want flexible, efficient and easy to use, I suggest looking at some form of LED strip lighting. I've been using a product by Meridian that looks like a thick lamp cord with LEDs embedded in it. It's easy to hang, follows curves and is relatively intense.
I have a thread called "The Night Scene" but it also cover this lighting. Follow this link and go about halfway down the first page where discussion about it starts.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/213765.aspx?page=1
Here's a pic of my layout illuminated with it.
The power consumption for the whole room is about the same as a single old school light bulb, about 120 watts or less than three of the old 50 watt halogen spots, of which I had more than 30 at one time, plus over a kilowatt of tubes in the drop ceiling. It used to get kinda warm in there. In contrast, there is no heat noted with the LEDs.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Here is my attempt at sufficient brightness, sunlight color rendetion, and uniformity to reduce shadows.
Upper deck: http://www.lkorailroad.com/track-plan-positioning/
Lower deck: http://www.lkorailroad.com/lighting-completely-finished/
There are a lot more posts on the blog. If you flip though you will see additional images of the layout lighting as well as construction details as I built it.
http://www.lkorailroad.com
Alan
Freelancing the LK&O Railroad
Swedish Custom painter and model maker. My Website:
My Railroad
My Youtube:
Graff´s channel
As I work on my new basement and design my new layout, I am fully planning to use LED stip lights. Nothing else comes close to coverage, low heat, and low power. My plan is to use 3 strips, one of a white type, one of blue, and one RGB strip so I can simulate dusk to dawn plus have night lighting.
My layout is linear shelf style, this may not be optimal for island type layouts.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Fluorecent lights are not too expensive, run reasonably cool and can be hidden behind a bench edge valance. The four foot tubes draw 40 watts per tube. One tube throws as much light as three or four 100 watt incandescent bulbs. The modern tubes, the skinny ones, can be had with much better color rendition than than the old fat cool white tubes. To judge color rendition, you need to visit a lamp store, with some colored objects that you are familiar with. Red is the greatest challenge to color rendition, so bring a box car or two. Hold 'em up under the lamps you are thinking of buying, then take 'em outdoors and look at 'em under daylight. If you like what they look like under the lights, buy 'em. Note. Tubes with the best color rendition tend to cost a little more and throw less light per tube. You pays yer money, you takes yer chance.
For working on the layout you want plenty of light, so you can see what you are doing, and find small parts dropped on the floor. For showing off the trains, having the light mostly on the layout and the overall room light dimmer is very effective. Fluorescents cannot be dimmed, so you want to wire a couple of strings to different switches, so you can turn about half of 'em off.
While you are doing electrical work, think about wall outlets, lots of 'em, so you can run Dremels and soldering irons anywhere in the room without extension cords. And have outlets UNDER the bench work for trouble lights as well as tools. Think about a master switch for the wall outlets so you can flip the power off when you leave and not worry about a forgotten soldering iron starting a fire. Put the wall outlets and the ceiling lights on different circuit breakers so a short that trips a breaker doesn't put the room lights out at the same time.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Go with CFL's and track lighting, cheap and low energy user and ready for the day LED's become cheap enough (getting there but still $10 a bulb when CFL's are less than $1).
I am finding that having LOTS of Fluorecent lights maks reading Car Number a lot easier for those people with EYE Problems or just aging Eyes!
This is the biggest problem I find when visiting a layout or trying to OPERATE on one
NOT being able to see the layout!
While YOU may enjoy NOT seeing your layout your Operators or VISITORS don't and GUESS WHAT?
They will be telling everyone that the Layout is DARK and it is a waste of time to visit!
I have found that having a minimum of 100 LUX (metric equivelent of Candle Power) at track level goes a long way in making it easier for everyone to really see the Layout!
If you are proud of your work SHOW IT OFF by putting enough light on it (most Museum Displays have LOTs of lighting).
But if you feel that your layout isn't worthy then continue on with the poor lighting that 99% of the layouts have and this includes some really famous Layouts I have seen!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Bob,
I certainly agree that you don't want to skimp on light output or have it inadequate for ops needs.
I would tend to quibble that flourescents are the go-to answer to solve lighting problems now. Ten years ago, yes, they were the most cost effective means for layout lighting. Note I did not say best. They tend to flicker and glare, as well as combine the worst properties of point and line sources of light. You needed to get decent tubes, too, preferably GE Chroma 50 or the equivalent, to enjoy the full benefits.
I've got over a kilowatt of Chroma 50 equivalent lighting in my ceiling I now rarely use. On occassion, I use them for work lighting.
Granted, a big part of the reason why is due to their inefficiency versus more modern technology. While better than incandescents, they're worse than just about anything else when it come to energy effciency. They (and the associated ballasts) also produce a surprising amount of heat.
With prices coming down and output getting better all the time, for a new installation I recommend going with LEDs in some form. The technology is mature, prices keep falling and they run cool. I'm very happy with my conversion to LEDs, which will pay for itself in just a few years. The flexibility and ease of installation also are clearly in favor of LED light strips. I just string them up to follow the layout curves and turns. If one pass through a scene isn't enough, I just add another string.
The overall pic I provided in my earlier comment may have given the wrong impression of dark areas, which are actually the aisles. The light strings point light where it's needed, so I don't illuminate the aisles, preferring the shadow box effect using them in this manner provides. Here's a pic that better shows the illumination, a scene in Silverton.
While, for the average layout, using alternative lighing is well within the budget of the average modeler.
But when the room size gets over a cetain size - Alternative lighting gets a bit expensive!
To fill a 2500 sq ft area with enought light to get the LUX level to 100 LUX at track level requires a LOT OF LIGHT!
I have my lights above the Drop Ceiling and they are arreaged to light the layout at the LUX levels that I stated above!
I had checked the lighting levels of a dozen or more Layouts that I run on and NOT one came close to the Light levels I was trying to achieve!
I am at a loss why EVERYONE wants to HIDE their Layouts from the average Visitor by NOT puting in more light -
Unless they feel that the cost of Lights is too much! Their Loss - or they are not happy with the way their layout looks!
I use the Cool White 4100k lamps bought by the Contractors Case at Lowe/Home Dpot.
I have found that with my Eye Sight after numerious surgerys requires me to have a bit brighter conditions and NOT one person that either runs my lasyout nor any visitor has ever stated they wish the layout room was darker!
They all commented that this was the first layout they could actually see the trains running adequately !
With over 8000 watts of light I would certainly hope so!
As for shadows - I have a few - which will get worked out with MORE Lights and what few remain gives the clouded look as the rest of the layout is so bright!
Everyone has their own way of doing things and if they like the dark look - don't be surprised that few want to revisit the layout due to the need to wear a Miners Light Hat just to the see the detail on the layout! ;-)
And another reason I put so much light in was I was getting the Fixtures from a contractor that did a LOT of remodeling of Stores and the old lights were just being thrown into the trash!
My two sons and I went to a warehouse clean out sale and got 2 pallets of 4 tube 4 foot lights for $10.00 so that one was a no brainer. Most of my lights are quad 8ft lights with a mix of 2 tube 8 footers and 2 tube 4 footers thrown in to fill in the shadows.
A lot of times one can get these lights very inxpensive at the surplus stores and Habitat for Humanity outlet stores!
So the price gets a lot better that way!
cmrproductsWhile, for the average layout, using alternative lighing is well within the budget of the average modeler. But when the room size gets over a cetain size - Alternative lighting gets a bit expensive!...With over 8000 watts of light I would certainly hope so!
Yeah, but that's also 8,000 watts of electricity. Operational costs have to be taken into consideration. I've gone from about 1,200 watts of overhead (not including the 30+ halogens, which more than doubled the needed power) to about 120 watts to light the same space.
A 90% cut in the required power does make the math a bit different.
I'm not arguing about in-place, realtively up-to-date installations in terms of the economics. Yes, the acquisition cost of the tubes is still much cheaper. But the power to run them isn't getting cheaper, so operating costs are a bigger and bigger factor.
In my case, the deciding factor was the heat. The only time when all the lighting was on was when I was operating. It was hot to start with, then you pack in some warm bodies...even the central air in the basement cool really couldn't keep up. Now it stays right at 70 degrees no matter how long we run or how many folks we squeeze in.
Sometimes it not just the light, although I think there is an improvement with the Daylight LEDs even over the Chroma 50s.
Mike
You are correct in that a NEW Install should look at Alternative Lighting!
But using the analigy of saving X number of $ from one type and another
The Electric Companies were spouting that kind of jubberish a few years ago
You will save X dollars by switching over to this or that
So I did some figuring IF I took the cost of the NEW Electronic Ballasts and the associated hardware needed to change
And did the calcs using the proposed figures from several sources on the internet and books etc.
No matter how I figured the savings per year the ROI (Return on Investement) came out to something like 50 YEARS!
There is NO WAY I would ever see any real savings in my lifetime and probably very little over my Kids lifetimes!
The only real saving is Dollars NOT CENTS per month!
Figures will Lie and Liers will Figure as the old saying goes!
Until I can see a savings Actual not Theoritical then I could see doing changes!
Where the REAL savings comes in is JUST TURN THE DANG Lights OFF (when NOT using them) I have seen more savings here now that I do that!
YMMV! ;-)
Reagrdless of what lighting type or arrangement employed it makes good sense to arrange them on separate switched circuits so you can light only the area you are working in. While all the lights may be on during an operating session there is no need to have all of them on if you are working on the layout in a specific area. JUST TURN THE DANG Lights OFF is real savings.
Practicing what I preach: http://www.lkorailroad.com/lighting-system-operational/
That is correct! - Have a number of circuits to save the need to light up the whole place!
While some have WORK lights and Layout Lights - I just use all the same lights.
With the Lights mounted so high in the room and being above the Drop ceiling the coverage is fairly wide (and the Heat stays abov e the ceiling)!
I have 9 Lighting circuits that control areas of the room lighting.
SO I really don't spend a lot of money on electicity when I am just down working on the layout.
But when it comes time for an OPs Session - all the Neighbors know as the everyone elses house lights dim down a bit when I flip on the Room Lights! ;-) ;-)