singletrack1,
I think your water looks great, the smooth shine looks very much like the real thing to me. The dark blue color does make me think we are looking into a deep pond!!
Great job, and I looked at your other layout photos, very nice work.
Aflyer
Thank you Mr. B! That was a little different from what I remember before but certainly did the job! I appreciate the help very much!
Happy RR'ing!
Duane
Go to Photobucket, select the picture and display the full picture on the screen, not the thumbnail. Right click on the picture and select Properties. From the box that pops up, highlight the big long string of characters that starts with http, and looks like this:
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee164/MisterBeasley/DSC05043.jpg
Hold down CTRL and press c. This will copy the selected string.
Next, go to the thread where you want to put the picture. Click Reply (not "quick reply") and press the "Insert/edit Image" button, the fifth from the left on the bottom row of buttons. Click in the box labelled "Source," hold down CTRL and press v. This will copy the URL into the box. Finally, press OK and the picture should end up in your post.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Ugh... I think it's IE8... I had IE9 once but due to military affairs I need to deal with and all the programs that that entails, they do not play well with IE9. It seems like I've posted pics before and the only thing that's changed is this site's "program, format, software... whatever. this is the first time I've tried to upload anything since the change.
???
What browser are you using?
" alt="" /> Nope,,, I tried both the IMG and HTML links and nothing. Any ideas? Duane
" alt="" />Thank you all who have contributed- Mr. B, I read about your swamp it seems in a post from soneone else not too far back. I've read a bunch yesterday and in the past regarding so many of these different approaches. Most all the info I read regarding EZ Water pretty much went as all of you have indicated- something like 3 positive results and about 100 others saying, sometimes in all caps, "run away", "don't use it",,, it will brown, crack, everything bad. Me being the hard-headed and competitive one I am came to think "this sounds like a challenge now". That, and I've had the experience when a product does not work, typically something is not right either in the prep or in the application of the product. Like I indicated before, I had the stuff, it's a small pour, and worse come to worse, I cut it out, rebottom it and do something else- it's only wire screen, plaster cloth and durabond under it.
I made a first pour with the EZ Water last night. I paid close attention to the heating process- directions tell you if it is smoking, it's too hot, and extra heat will discolor it. The first pour went smoothly and when cooled and set was clear and smooth as glass. I did not quite mix enough to get the edges like I wanted, so I did another pour this morning. The second pour resulted in my acquiring a heat gun to work out air bubbles that had developed between the layers. The heat gun process went well though I kept worrying about that "more heat discolors" thing.
I've ended up with what I feel for my purposes to be quite a satisfactory result! My pond is supposed to be quiet, calm, and deep. I feel what may be viewed as shortcomings would result from my not being a painting artist when it comes to painting the bottom. Nonetheless, my result will work quite well for my application. There are no plants yet in the area as they come next, but now I will try to post a pic or two...
Thank you all again so much, enjoy (or not) the pics, and Happy RR'ing and New Year! I don't think I'm getting pics up- they're in my photbucket, but I dont think it's working!
Two more advantages of multiple thin pours -
The tinting applied to each level of this swamp was different. At the lowest level, I used dark paint, and quite a bit of it, leading to a dark, murky bottom. The middle levels got lighter, and the top level was clear. This gave me the appearance of a swamp getting murkier as you look down into it.
The "waterline beaver" swimming in the middle was done by removing the legs, filing the base flat and using just a dab of glue to hold it in place as the final thin pour was done around it.
Limited experince for me but very happy with Envirotex. Simple to use, plenty of working time then cures very quickly, multiple pours are fine, its easy to tint with cheap acrylic paint. And the surface that results is hard, durable, and easy to clean.
I found that multiple pours are actually a big benefit. With the first pour you can confirm how level the area is and get a very good idea of where the water edges will end up. Then make adjustments to landscaping to dress up the banks so that the water meets the edge correctly before doing the next pour(s). It does not sound like this is possible with the pellets.
Huntington Junction - Freelance based on the B&O and C&O in coal country before the merger... doing it my way. Now working on phase 3. - Walt
For photos and more: http://www.wkhobbies.com/model-railroad/
You might also check to see how David Popp made a river section on a corner of the Virginian Project layout, described in the 2012 articles or the videos on the MR site. I have a similar spot provided on a corner of my layout but have not decided how to do it.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
I am also a satisfied coustomer of magic water.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
Consider me a satisfied customer of the Magic Water product from Unreal Details.
http://www.unrealdetails.com/
It is important to follow the instructions and advice that come with the product, including lightly blowing on it to encourage the air bubbles to come to the surface. It is relatively odorless and is mixed at room temps.
And make no mistake about it, as with any liquid it finds every little gap or opening. It is not at all viscous when poured but very liquidy. I tried it out (and my creekbed scenic ideas) on a tiny creek bed I made out of a scrap of beadboard foam and was careful to seal the ends with styrene and adhesive latex caulk and then went ahead and used it on a signature scene on my layout, again being very careful to seal the ends (which which when the styrene "dam" is removed come out looking like cleanly cut slices into the water - interesting).
I have seen the yellowed effect with the EZ Water which does not surprise me since the pellets start yellow; and I can't help but suspect that the introduction of heat to the layout during the pour, and then the product hardens while the heat goes away, might account for the cracking that some have experienced.
Dave Nelson
If it matters, I can't recall reading, in my eight years on this forum, or any other hobby forum, where anyone had a satisfactory result with the pellets. On the other hand, Mod Podge, Future floor polish, and two-part epoxies do much better. I use a finish quality two-part epoxy from Swing Paints called Nu-Lustre 55. I believe Envirotex is a similar product. It's not cheap, to be honest, but if you measure and mix it really thoroughly, you'll end up with a perfectly flat, smooth, and clear slab of glass-like water. To make it look more like water, you can add a single drop of acrylic green paint, but I also use a pinch or two of plaster of Paris to add opacity. Very little, not nearly as much as a tsp. Then, when the medium has cured, you can top the glassy surface with gloss medium like Mod Podge and stipple it to look slightly choppy.
-Crandell
If I were doing this, I'd find something other than EZ Water. Woodland Scenics has a product now that is already in liquid form in a plastic bottle that is much easier to work with.
A member of our local club used EZ water several years ago with disasterous results. First, it was wintertime in an unheated clubhouse. Second, he used a Coleman camp stove to melt the stuff. Third, he had to mix several bags and make several pours because of the size of the area and the small pan he had on hand. Forth, he overheated one batch which caused it to turn brown. And his last mistake was pouring it too thick, which caused it to start cracking as it cooled.
By the time it was finished, it looked like a large frozen lake that had been through an earthquake, with all the cracks in the water.
Buy a bottle of the newer water and pour it in several very thin layers until it is built up to the thickness you desire. Let it cure for two or three days between pours.
Thanks for the input Paul. I've thought about the trip from the stove to the layout, not long in our place but with 4 dogs and 5 cats to potentially manuveur around... yah! I've got some old junk pans somewhere I used to use for outdoor dog dishes. Maybe I'll dig one of those out along with the backpack stove and just melt it right there at the workplace! Probably safer!
Good to hear you had success the second time around. It's dawned on me that because it's a meltable product, that probably has something to do with why they say to do one pour. I imagine pouring more onto a set layer melts the first layer probably unevenly...
Thanks all!
I botched my first try with the pellets on my grandson's layout. The pond in plywood I had routed out pretty deep, and the first batch was too shallow. With the second batch, it came out not very level (maybe melted but still pretty viscous). In later months it cracked *mybe from temperature variations) and in tying to chip it out to re-do, I went throught the plywood. So we covered it and put a structure there. We then build a much smaller, thinner pond elsewhere and used the same material successfully. I;m unsure about whether heating more beyond melting helps reduce viscosity to help self leveling when poured. When really hot it starts smoking.
When I do my layout I will consider another type.
This stuff is a bit scary to maneuver from the stove where heated to the layout for application. I heated it in a small disposable aluminum dish and carried it with long pliers, in hindsight a good way to drop it. Suggest use pliers to move it to a piece of plywood or small box to carry it. Use extreme caution if kids or pets are running around.
Thank you Crandell, I shall find out how level my pour is and how well it is sealed. At least there is nothing underneath it but plywood! And Mr B., wonderful effects! I have seem those pics many times here and they are certainly inspirational! My scene is nothing more than a dammed off runoff area in a little viewed area, but none-the-less, it is a water effect on the layout. It will most likely be somewhat hidden by overgrowth and trees, but that's okay. I have the idea of a fisherman on the shore somewhere! Who knows? Maybe this layout comes out in my lifetime and a new one begins (certainly not planned anyway) at which time I will have learned a bunch!
Thank you all, and Crandell, I hope it "flows" like mineral oil, meaning I hope it flows out quickly so I have an idea how much I need in there and whether it will cover. I hate to heat some up only to find out it is not enough when it settles, like my Durabond, thinking I was leveled, but then when it set it's pretty wavy! I'll post a pic or two when it is done (maybe)!
This is my first "water" scene.
I did this about 5 years ago, and the water has not cracked or discolored in all that time. The surface remains hard, glossy and flat, and needs nothing more than the occasional dusting. So, I will recommend using Envirotex Lite, my personal "water of choice."
I went to www.michaels.com (the craft shop) and printed out a coupon good for 40% off on one item. Envirotex Lite is not a cheap product, but the coupon will save you a lot. I bought the larger of the two sizes. But, if your needs are modest you may get by with the smaller box. This stuff really does go a long way, and I can assure you that if you keep the bottles closed up once you're done, the rest will last for years on the shelf.
Envirotex works best when you use multiple pours, no more than a eighth of an inch deep per pour. I add a small amount of tinting with acrylic craft paint to give more "optical depth". "Small" means a drop or two of paint. Wait a good 24 hours between pours, and mix it well (stirred, not shaken) to make sure the components are mixed properly.
It will act like mineral oil when you pour it. It will seek every tiny orifice and drip through it and onto something below. So, you should seal your water feature up like it were to be used as a fish tank. You can use sealants or use plaster, or putty. I have mixed paints and plaster, slopped and painted it into place and waited for it to dry. If done well, it can seal up little cracks and fissures. Then sand if you must, or just paint up the surface and then pour.
Oh yah,,, already figured on not re-using a pot afterwards, thinking more along the lines of either lining a pot with foil, or like the instructions show using a disposable pie pan... probably the foil lined pot thing as that may keep it liquidy enough while I go from the stove to the train room, instead of a pie pan cooling down! What do I know? It either works or it doesn't; either way I will have an experience to share for the next modeler that comes along!
Thanks for the input Rob. I thought I might hear something like this since I don't usually hear of the product when I'm reading of other modelers water scenes. I picked this up at my LHS (not so local, 50 miles away) during a visit thinking I only have the one small, out-of-the-way scene to do, that is nowhere near a showcase scene. I understand the risks and have read of others water scenes yellowing, shrinking, cracking, forever wicking, etc., and this scene is easily removed and replaced (I think ), so I will probably still use this stuff.
My big concern is the "sealing with Scenic Cement" deal? WTH? Is that some kind of glorified water/white glue mix? Do I need to go over my painted (acrylic) surface with something else? It does say to paint with acrylics, which is handy since that is what I use for everything anyway,,, but after that?
Heck, I've got urethane out in the shop I could use, but still going to try this stuff. I'm sure not going to use it all on this pour, easily cut out if need be later, why not?
Keep it coming gang!
singletrack100...am using EZ-Water, the little pellets you heat up.
I don't like to do this, but I'll suggest you stop right there and consider another product. I've seen quite a few projects using the EZ water, and heard about many more. This product isn't well thought out, and tends to yield very poor results. The finished water retains a sickly yellow cast, and frequently shrinks more and more over time. I can't tell you how many bodies of water I've seen where the EZ water has shrunk, curled, cracked and otherwise ruined the scene.
Multiple pours with this product tend not to go well. It can't really be cleaned from the vessel you use to heat it, so plan on disposing of the pot afterward.
It sounds to me like your scenery is ready for whatever water product you choose to add. To avoid disappointing results, something besides EZ water might just be a plan. Woodland Scenics sells a better material called "Realistic Water" that will deliver far superior results http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/Item/C1211/page/1 .
Rob Spangler
I ahevn't use that stuff, although I think I have a bag around somewhere. If it says do it in a single pour, then probably best to do it that way. Additional layers may not work well.
The Scenic Cement thing is probably to ensure the holes are all sealed. You've done that. It may also have something to do with how the "water" adheres to whatever it's poured into, as well as keeping anything you put in th base of the pond stuck to it and not floating in the water when you pour. You probably have that covered, but someone with actual experience should confirm.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Hi all. I'm modeling a small little lake, about 6" diameter, and am using EZ-Water, the little pellets you heat up. I've understood from other posts regarding water to have the area sealed up, painted and ready to go. I've read where many sealed their are with Hydrocal or some other type- I use Durabond 90 for my scenery needs.
Anyway, I've Durabonded my pour area, painted it and have shore rocks (kitty litter) glued in place and was getting ready to heat my stuff up and make a pour when I read something. First, it talked about NOT doing more than one pour, and second, it said to seal the area first with Scenic Cement. So as I double wait to make sure everything is dry, now I'm wondering if I'm ready or not?
Have any of you used this product, and is there some reason if the first pour (1/8") doesn't quite reach the shore that I cannot put another thin layer on after it sets? Also, what is this sealing with Scenic Cement? I've apparantly missed something when reading other water related posts. Is there an alternative?
Thank in advance everyone! Happy RR'ing!