I've got a bump in my track, and I'm going to have to take it up and re-do it so it will be level, or at least more nearly so. It's not a big deal. I knew it had a problem, so I never even glued it down. End-to-end, this is not more than 5 feet of double track.
I can do this without a laser level, but, you know, I could also do it with a laser level, and that would give me an excuse to buy one.
I've seen these for $12, and also for 4 figures. I assume the ones that cost over a thousand are for hanging wallpaper on airplanes, because everything costs more on airplanes, but what are the plusses and minuses of the various grades of these things?
Thanks a lot. I trust your input more than the guys on the flight sim forum, by the way.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Mr. B,
A laser simply points in a straight line, Attach it to a level and theoretically a user could level something, if they know how to use it. With grades, it's a bit trickier. Basically, you can put the level as the foot of the grade and raise it inch by inch as you mark how far down the track that takes you. Between the height above the base and the run before it intercept the roadbed, you can calculate a grade. Maybe there's a simpler method? I haven't really worked with a laser level, though.
What I use is one of those electronic levels. No laser, but it'll give you grades directly in terms of grade and rise. That's what I use on my layout and it's a godsend. I just slide it along to check the entire grade for bumps and rises, turn it sideways to check for a level cross-grade.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
They work great for positioning shelves on walls and hanging pictures. But in all practicality,on a flat layout, I don't see how that would work for a high spot. Maybe a 3 ft Aluminum level would be more practical. Just my experience, with a laser level.
Frank
I have a relatively inexpensive 24" digital level with a laser. The digital readout is great for double-checking grades (exactly as Mike describes) but I haven't found a real use for the laser on the railroad. If I had to do it over again I would probably spend a bit more to get better digital readings and skip the laser.
Huntington Junction - Freelance based on the B&O and C&O in coal country before the merger... doing it my way. Now working on phase 3. - Walt
For photos and more: http://www.wkhobbies.com/model-railroad/
Not meaning to hijack the thread, just wanting to find if anyone would recommend one for setting up a shelf layout or will a good 4' level do as well?
Thank you,
Richard
Been reading "bubbles" and have an eye for level that just comes naturally w/ so many years experience I have no use for these digital versions, personally. This is speaking from experience and from using numerous quality levels that I wouldn't expect most to have (various, torpedos, 24", 32" 48" 72"). Funny this come up, last job my 6ft Empire (usually kept cased for cabinet work) showed a true level to 36ft +/- 1/8" (over the total distance) to double check the results of a David White Meridian transit. The transit was off by more than 1/4". But w/ most of the "junk" found at the average home center, I would actually recommend some of the digital versions for benchwork applications. Handled propery, they work well for level and grades as descibed. A few models will have the digital unit detactable and can be used on any length beam. They can get quite pricey for some better models, but you make the choice. I will still be calculating grade w/ the appropriate sized block attached/ taped to a known true level.
For old school purchasing of the basic level, look for clean heavy extruded aluminum "I" beam constuction. Some will show end caps in decent "bumper" caps not snap on plastic. bubbles can be molded in glass sealed or inserts but look for screw adjustment if ever need to recalibrate. When selecting off the "rack" place a few to horizontal and ck the bubble. You'd be surprised just how off so many can be. Even if buying a cheaper version of a 2ft check agaist several quality 4/6ft ones to find the average plumb (vertical) and level (horizontal). Even a cheaper version, checked against several quality ones, handled properly will suit your needs.
So Mr "B", feel free to add this gadget to your tool arsenal if tired of playing w/ calc the blocks for the rise!
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
I got a laser level for Christmas last year and finally used it on my model railroad to 'strike' a level line around the walls for my backdrop. The level has a swivel/rotating base that I set up on a tripod to get it to the height I needed. The only drawback is that the laser line is about 1/16" wide and not really that acurate for fine work, but it was OK for my task at hand. This one is a Craftsman model that has a lot of features but unless the laser beam/line is .010" wide, it doesn't replace a bubble level in my mind. Just my observations. As for track work I would stick with a good aluminum bubble level.
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
farrellaa I got a laser level for Christmas last year and finally used it on my model railroad to 'strike' a level line around the walls for my backdrop. The level has a swivel/rotating base that I set up on a tripod to get it to the height I needed. The only drawback is that the laser line is about 1/16" wide and not really that acurate for fine work, but it was OK for my task at hand. This one is a Craftsman model that has a lot of features but unless the laser beam/line is .010" wide, it doesn't replace a bubble level in my mind. Just my observations. As for track work I would stick with a good aluminum bubble level. -Bob
Laser is great, but only as good as you level the unit to send out that "laser" fat line! Look @ the laser saw attachments, OK now what part of that fat laser line do I decide to cut? No wait, I can't see my line, 'cause the laser is masking/ hiding the line in the first place, All my laser blade attachments are somewhere in a landfill.
A good level and a sharp pencil is far more accurate for close quarters, in my opinion. Most are just a gimick. Not talking about laser to shoot walls for dropped ceilings etc in large areas.
Not to be confused w/ the digital leveling.
My e-level is nearly 20 years old. It's a Macklanburg-Duncan ProSmartLevel. Just the digital unit, it's about 8" long. It's designed to insert into longer levels as part of a system. I never bothered with the rest, this worked for me. It's fairly accurate, reads to 0.1% grade, which I would say is necessary to do model railroad engineering. Single digit grade readouts won't cut it. You've got to read down to a tenth of a percent.
One thing about the short length is that it lets me read every little bit of transition, which helps avoid some issues with vertical curves. Also makes it easy to check cross-grade level.
mlehman My e-level is nearly 20 years old. It's a Macklanburg-Duncan ProSmartLevel. Just the digital unit, it's about 8" long. It's designed to insert into longer levels as part of a system. I never bothered with the rest, this worked for me. It's fairly accurate, reads to 0.1% grade, which I would say is necessary to do model railroad engineering. Single digit grade readouts won't cut it. You've got to read down to a tenth of a percent. One thing about the short length is that it lets me read every little bit of transition, which helps avoid some issues with vertical curves. Also makes it easy to check cross-grade level.
Mike the Pro-Smart is a very decent unit, have you ever found the need to have a use to insert into a 24" or longer beam? The units themselves are quite accurate but others may want to know this as well. The accuracy of the unit placed in longer Unit lenths may prove better, your take on this. Not sure everyone would go that expense. I personally won't use it for jobsite as storage in work truck and job use would be problematic (not always under my control), they need TLC. Layout builder's won't be trashing or abusing a tool like this.
MisterBeasley
I can see using a laser level to determine the high and low points on your track, and I think the el-cheapo models would do just fine. I used a "$12.00" model to slope my interlocking driveway and it worked great.
There is a small problem in that the laser beam won't be right at track height because of the construction of the level (unless you dig a hole in the layout to put the level in which I don't think would be very practical). That problem is easily solved by making up a reflector which you can slide along the track. The reflector could be made of styrene or even card stock (styrene being much more durable). You will need to draw a line across the reflector at exactly the height that the laser beam is above the track when the level is sitting on the track. That's easy - just put the level and the reflector down on a flat surface and mark the reflector where the beam hits.
To measure the track alignment you put the laser level on a piece of track that you know to be level and then slide your reflector down the offending piece of track towards the level. As the track rises or falls the beam will move below or above the reference line on the reflector and you can mark the track accordingly. This will work on a grade as well as long as the level is on a suitably elevated piece of track. At least, that's the theory.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I have a laser level. It works great for leveling pictures, molding, and installing kitchen cabinets. I can't even imagine a use for it on the layout.
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Hi,
You get what you pay for when it comes to tools. While a laser level seems like the way to go, for dealing with layout situations, it is not. Get a good stick level, and work with that. Also, use the longest level you can for the particular thing you are working with, as you will get a more precise indication of "level".
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I have the $600 (what contractors use) laser that sits on a tripod and spins, with the target you put on a grade stick. I use it for foundation and concrete work. It also has a mounting bracket for using it for ceilings. You can also use it in place of a transit for establishing and determining grades, as I used it for on our property in the north woods. I used it to put level marks on the basement wall, before starting my bench work, and used those marks as a reference. From there on, I used a 4' level. My bench work was built for, and serves two purposes: 1) A shelving system to put all of our plastic storage containers of "stuff", and 2) the top serves as a level place to begin my lay out.
I think anyone with any amount of building skills could use a 4' level, along with a straight 6' or 8' 2x4 straight edge, to build a good level and sturdy benchwork structure. For long distances, just tape the level to the straight 8' 2x4, and you have an 8' level. If your using two seperate levels, check them by putting them together in the horizontal and vertical positions, and make sure the bubbles match.
Mike.
My You Tube
MisterBeasley Thanks a lot. I trust your input more than the guys on the flight sim forum, by the way.
Mr. Beasley are you a flight simmer by any chance? I'm asking because I used to be, but have drifted away from it lately.
Dean
30 years 1:1 Canadian Pacific.....now switching in HO
bogp40 mlehman My e-level is nearly 20 years old. It's a Macklanburg-Duncan ProSmartLevel. Just the digital unit, it's about 8" long. It's designed to insert into longer levels as part of a system. I never bothered with the rest, this worked for me. It's fairly accurate, reads to 0.1% grade, which I would say is necessary to do model railroad engineering. Single digit grade readouts won't cut it. You've got to read down to a tenth of a percent. One thing about the short length is that it lets me read every little bit of transition, which helps avoid some issues with vertical curves. Also makes it easy to check cross-grade level. Mike the Pro-Smart is a very decent unit, have you ever found the need to have a use to insert into a 24" or longer beam? The units themselves are quite accurate but others may want to know this as well. The accuracy of the unit placed in longer Unit lenths may prove better, your take on this. Not sure everyone would go that expense. I personally won't use it for jobsite as storage in work truck and job use would be problematic (not always under my control), they need TLC. Layout builder's won't be trashing or abusing a tool like this.
Bob,
I've not really needed a longer baseline much, although I do have an ordinary 2' spirit level I could set it on top of if I need to. What I do is slide it along the grade. Since it's fairly precise, I can follow the vertical curve transitions, etc because it's so short. To me, that's where folks get into trouble and often it's because they "bridge over" gaps that appear under longer levels, just assuming it'll work out.
I agree that a 2' level is a good starting point for most. You do have to be disciplined in your engineering with the short level. I paid around $100 for it (~20 years ago), so it's not something to leave around where frisky fingers will drop or "misplace" it. But if you're building a sizable layout, it's an excellent investment. I still use it frequently, even though the time of heavy construction is past. This is another place where the short length shines, for instance, when I need a level building foundation.
mactier_hogger MisterBeasley Thanks a lot. I trust your input more than the guys on the flight sim forum, by the way. Mr. Beasley are you a flight simmer by any chance? I'm asking because I used to be, but have drifted away from it lately.
The only flight simulators I have flown were made by Link.
Now back to laser levels.
mactier_hoggerMr. Beasley are you a flight simmer by any chance? I'm asking because I used to be, but have drifted away from it lately.
Yes. I, too, drifted away from it. Actually, my wife wanted me to get away from the computer all the time, so she suggested pulling the trains out of the attic and "setting them up," thinking she would have a Martha Stewart Christmas village sized decoration to put around the tree.
That computer crashed and I gave up flight simming for a while, but a couple of years back I got the urge again. To my surprise, my "Captain Barfbag" account on AVSIM was still active after 12 years of slumber.
Thanks for the replies. I've been using bubble levels since I was a kid, and I currently have 2 short plastic ones and a good 24-inch aluminum one. For the moment, I'll stick with them.
MisterBeasley mactier_hogger Mr. Beasley are you a flight simmer by any chance? I'm asking because I used to be, but have drifted away from it lately. That computer crashed and I gave up flight simming for a while, but a couple of years back I got the urge again. To my surprise, my "Captain Barfbag" account on AVSIM was still active after 12 years of slumber.
mactier_hogger Mr. Beasley are you a flight simmer by any chance? I'm asking because I used to be, but have drifted away from it lately.
Wow! I've only been out of flight simming for a year or so! Got into World of Tankls last winter but that got to be too expensive.
The neat thing about laser levels is "double duty" -- And how the pet dog just loves to chase the ever-elusive traveling red dot!
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956