Is that the Atmore Hotel kit from Walthers? Looks familiar. Like the idea of balsa in the inside corners. Lighting is going to be my next adventure.
This is a kit, not a scratchbuild, but I used some of the same techniques here. On the left side, you can see where I used 1/4 inch balsa strips in the corners. This not only gives me a much more solid joint, but it also seals the corners from the inside and prevents embarrassing "light leak" when you illuminate the structure. I attach the balsa strips to the inside with CA glue, which bonds well to both the wood and the plastic. You can also see the balsa strips around the roof and the bases of the floors.
This building is a hotel, so I wanted some lights on and some off, along with a rudimentary interior. With mostly small windows, I used City Classics window treatments (Venetian blinds and shades) to partially cover most of the windows, so the simple interiors were perfectly adequate even in illuminated rooms.
Most kits are butt joints, not angled miter joints. Unless there is a particular decorative trim feature on the corner, that's probably the way to go. No one will ever notice anyway.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I just found the book on EBAY and bought it!
Thanks
Oh me and my math! Now you know why I ask so many questions.
daff Been doing a little math here so ck me to see if Im on the right track. 2 walls forming a 90 degree consist of 2 x 45 degree cuts (one each wall) 2 walls froming a 45 degree consist of 2 x 27.5 degree cuts (one each wall) 2 walls forming a 27.5 degree consist of 2 x 13.625 degree cuts (one each wall)
Been doing a little math here so ck me to see if Im on the right track.
2 walls forming a 90 degree consist of 2 x 45 degree cuts (one each wall)
2 walls froming a 45 degree consist of 2 x 27.5 degree cuts (one each wall)
2 walls forming a 27.5 degree consist of 2 x 13.625 degree cuts (one each wall)
Well, I failed angle school, too, but your second example should be two 22.5° cuts to form a 45°, which then changes your third example to two 11.25° cuts to form a 22.5° joint.
For mitred joints (I use them only where a corner post wouldn't be appropriate) I use the face-up-sandpaper on the work surface to bevel the adjoining edges to something less than 45°, making sure to keep the edges which will form the visible corner straight. This, of course, leaves little gluing surface, although I do coat those exposed meeting-edges with solvent cement so that they soften enough to smooth out any irregularities. On the inside of such corners, I use solvent cement to add a piece of square styrene strip, making sure that it's of sufficient width to span past those bevelled edges and onto the back surface of the walls. This forms a neat and strong joint without a lot of fussing over exact angles.
Wayne
Kambach has allowed the late Art Curren's book on kitbashing to go out of print (and to be sure some of the kits Art liked to work with the most have also been discontinued, such as Mt Vernon Mfg from LikeLike) but it remains a great source of ideas and techniques for imaginative kitbashing, and really establishes what a sophisticated skill it can be not just to do clean and professional looking work, but to even see the potential in a kit that Curren could see. I think after a while Curren had an instinctive sense of the familiar kits he used and probably dreamed entire kitbashes.
His book goes into the needed (and useful) tools and materials.
One "tool" Curren used was the Xerox machine - he'd make photocopies of kit parts and use them to reason out the changes and cuts he'd need to make with the plastic parts, before making any cuts or other changes. The guys at Kalmbach said they always knew when Art Curren was up to a new project because they'd see him at the office Xerox machine with boxes of plastic kits, making copies of the parts.
Interestingly the Walthers "modular" system came and went after Curren's time but I suspect he could have done some interesting things with it.
Curren would save the scraps including the sprues, never knowing when he's need to fill a gap or create a corner. And having some scratchbuilding skills to fill in gaps between kitbashed bits is also valuable.
I suspect that somewhere out there are guys who are kitbashing laser cut wood kits just as ambitiously as Art Curren did with styrene plastic kits.
Another useful book, but harder to find (also from Kalmbach and out of print) is Robert Schleicher's Building Plastic Railroad Models. He too goes into the tools, materials, and concepts.
Dave Nelson
You can either miter the "half" angle or miter the entire angle and "butt" joint. Using the desired template from the footprint, you can cut cardstock template for the angle. W/O any expensive sophisticated equipment ( table or band saw) you can cut the angle close to one already drawn on footprint and scribe, razor saw' hacksaw the piece close to the angle needed. By sanding the joint across a sheet of sandpaper held on a solid flat surface, you sand and check the progress w/ that cardstock template as a guide placing on the surface. Many times i need to do this even on tricky compund miters for exact fit of crown molding that my sliding compound just couldn't get that "absolutely" perfect. I can cheat w/ a belt sander, but wouldn't recommend unless quite experienced w/ the tool. Bench power sanding belt/ disc works perfectly however not everyone has the luxury of having one. If you are worried about your layout, cut strips w/ the miters to place on that "footprint" template to double ck before cutting the wall section. This is true especially for laying out the 1/2 angle example: (2-22 1/2 for a 45 degree cut)
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
my concern in doing angles is lets say you cut a bldg from left rear to right front I want to be sure that the new existing points where walls now meet are flush and I dont leave a gap. So I guess what I need is a way to "mitre" the two walls so that they are flush.
daff What is a good and easy way to figure angles? I have a couple of spots where taking a relatively square bldg and fitting it in on an angle would be terrific but I must have stayed out of school the day they taught us about angles!
What is a good and easy way to figure angles? I have a couple of spots where taking a relatively square bldg and fitting it in on an angle would be terrific but I must have stayed out of school the day they taught us about angles!
Angles can be figured in a few ways. Simple method is to just lay out a template. To calculate the footprint and angles, lay cardstock and draw perimeter/ footprint with a small straightedge. This will allow you to examine the size, shape and finished footprint of the structure. Small square block to locate 90 degree corners can help to start w/ some initial refeence points as you draw the shape. To transfer angles, I recommend a carpenter's "bevel" square, however you can cut out cardstock or styrene to match the angle off the initial template. As a finish carpenter, figuring or transcribing angles comes natural to me and forget that it may get confusing. Even w/ the bevel square, it is only a tool to set/ figure an angle. I make templates off thi to work with.
I make 3-dimensional mockups out of cardstock from Staples.
For positioning in the top picture, I use old pieces of track. The cardstock piece with the blue edges is a flat representation of what will be a canal. The 3D models let me see how they will fit, and also give me an idea of how the buildings themselves will look.
Most of these were made with DPM modular sections.
Always like to see other peoples work. Explains a lot of things. I think I can do this. Appreciate all the response.
Happy Holidays
Gidday, lots of great advise, tips and tools. I would just like add the tools I'd be lost without are my 4 inch machinists square, scriber, and steel scale ruler.
Ditto to Have Fun.
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
ctyclsscs...Each time you kitbash a model you'll probably wind up with some unused parts....
Jim's right: I bashed this together from two Walthers "Waterfront Warehouses", using most of the walls on the two sides which would be visible once on the layout:
Here's the normally-unseen back wall - a good place for that .060" sheet styrene which I mentioned previously:
As you can see in this view, the structure was built to fit between its siding and the backdrop wall, as were all the buildings along the tracks in this town:
That sheet styrene makes good interior walls and bracing, too:
After Languay's was finished, I had a couple of wall sections left over, so I built the Evell Casket Company (its prototype was in my hometown and bore only a passing resemblance to my version). It sits right at the layout's edge, and because I had only a limited amount of walls, I modelled it as if it had been cut-off at the edge of the modelled world:
This view is not easily seen from the aisle, but it makes for an interesting photo. Despite the apparent lack of a siding, this structure has rail service via a couple of staging tracks located under the south end staging yard. They support several unmodelled industries which take up little room but generate a great deal of traffic:
After Evell's had been completed, I still had some doors and windows left from the original Walthers kits - each one came with two full sets of windows and doors, a kitbasher's delight. However, I had no spare walls lying around, so I used some more of that .060" sheet styrene to build a combination train station, express division, and post office:
Again, this one was built to suit the site, with non-parallel front and rear walls:
You can also kitbash freight cars, like these Tyco 40' wood reefers...
...modified into 36' truss-rod reefers, with new wood ends and radial roofs:
Sometimes, even vehicles might fall under the kitbasher's knife, like this non-descript army truck:
It's much more useful on my layout as a moving van:
Once you start kitbashing, it'll be difficult to stop, and it could even lead you into the dark world of scratchbuilding. Have fun.
I know you asked about tools, but another thing that helps is to start a collection of extra parts and doodads. Each time you kitbash a model you'll probably wind up with some unused parts. Start a collection of them. Maybe even buy some cheap kits at train shows to get some extra parts. A lot of Model Power, IHC, AHM and other older kits have extra parts included. Of course, you can always buy parts from folks like Tichy, Grandt Line and others to have on hand. Eventually you'll wind up with a variety of parts, like chimneys, doors, roof vents, etc. that all come in handy when you're kitbashing buildings. You'll be surprised at how quickly you'll accumulate a nice variety of extra parts once you start.
Jim
Sounds good! Having a bit of the back roof in place will definately add to the depth of the scene. You will have to find something to replace or extend the roof but that shouldn't be a problem. The roof on the model looks like it is made of rolled roofing. I have duplicated that effect by using strips of manilla envelope cut to scale (3' or 4' wide x 15' long) and glued down with Aileen's Tacky Glue. Paint it a flat colour obviously, and I would suggest painting the roof as close as possible to the finishing of the project because you will leave finger prints on the flat surface. Latex gloves work too.
One other thing you could consider if space permits is to mount the freight shed on a bit of an angle to the back wall. It adds a bit of texture to the scene instead of having everything parallel to the back drop.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Will probably cut it on the backside thinking that it will add some depth to it rather than it just sitting flush against the backdrop.
And I will share some pics when done. Heck may just do some You Tube "How To" video.
daff:
Extending that freight building should be quite easy. Since you are on a shelf layout you likely won't need a back wall or the back half of the roof. That automatically gives you the parts to widen the building. The only cutting in the walls will be on the two end pieces unless you want less than double the original width, and you will probably have to do some cutting on the foundation. Butt joining the roof shouldn't be too hard but as has been mentioned you will need to reinforce the seam. I would suggest a 'T' shape reinforcement close to the top of the roof (i.e. .060 styrene 3/4" wide glued on its edge perpendicular to the roof) as well as a flat strip the length of the seam. Make sure you put the roof on a flat surface to do the joint so that the two pieces line up level. Same with the walls.
You don't have to go the full half width either. You can cut the building off wherever you want within reason, so for example, if you discover that the 4 1/2" depth is too wide you can cut the roof and sides to less than that depth without affecting the appearance too much. I wouldn't go much less than 2 1/2" - 3" or the roof might not look right.
Have fun. Show us your work!
Somebody mentioned a razor saw, but I'd like to strongly suggest getting one as a prime piece of equipment.
Step 1: Go to www.michaels.com or www.acmoore.com, the web sites for the craft stores. Look for the coupons. There is almost always one for 40-50% off one item. They take each other's coupons, by the way, but either way it's one coupon per checkout.
Step 2: Go buy a razor saw. They're about $15. Look around the store. Buy some balsa wood strips (1/4 or 3/8 square are good) and some craft paint and brushes. Buy a 2x3 foot sheet of 1/4-inch foamcore board, and a container of Aileen's Tacky Glue. That razor saw is still going to be the "expensive" item you use the coupon for.
Step 3: Have fun. Don't be afraid to make mistakes - we all do, and sometimes the results are better than if we'd done it right.
doctorwayneA utility knife is a lot more useful than an X-Acto for cutting large sheets and for simple straight cuts on the heavy plastic used for the walls in most structure kits.
I second that. In fact, I use a utility knife in place of a hobby knife for nearly everything. I just find it easier to control and the blades are more durable.
Rob Spangler
Don't limit yourself to only modelling tools for kitbashing. Depending on the project, I've used hacksaws, handsaws, a 1/2" drill, plumber's propane torch, assorted mill files, bodywork file, ballpeen hammer, cold chisels, and a carpenter's framing square. If I owned a table saw, it would have been useful for the lengthwise sectioning of rolling stock (that's where the handsaw came into play ). If you're cutting-down structures for use on a shelf-type layout or even as a background building on a wider layout, find a plastics supplier in your area and pick up a 4'x8' sheet of .060" styrene. It's useful for making foundations and sub-roofs, but also for bracing and walls for the rear of those cut-down structures - just because they're not seen doesn't eliminate the need for them to be dimensionally stable. A utility knife is a lot more useful than an X-Acto for cutting large sheets and for simple straight cuts on the heavy plastic used for the walls in most structure kits.Most of my larger structures are either kitbashed or scratchbuilt.
daff What about saws for the heavier walls of buildings?
What about saws for the heavier walls of buildings?
Repeated scoring (both sides on thicher stock) usually works most times and snap over workbench edge or other solid straight edge. Drawing a razor saw along raised detail, cornices, paripit etc may be needed. Many times I like the "quick" method for initial sizing of larger stock, fine toothed (plywood blade) reversed in a table saw, rips the sections like butter. Control the feed until you get the hang of it. You actually "melt" your way through and just scape off and sand.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-2954
This is the one I have and want to cut it in half long ways and possible make one long building instead of the 9" wide footprint it now has. Just way to wide for my use.
This is exactly what I want to do. I have a shelf layout about 21" wide and a lot of the buildings I like have a bigger footprint than I have room for so to be able to cut in half, double the length is exactly what I want to do.
Thanks, Happy Holidays
Congratulations on taking the step into kit bashing. The possibilities are endless.
One of my favourite kit bashes is to take a regular industrial or commercial building and "unfold" it to make a longer but shallower background building. Here is one example. This is a really easy kit bash because there wasn't a lot of cutting of walls required:
This how the kit was intended to be built:
This is how I unfolded it:
This is an inside view showing the new roof and the reinforcing between wall sections. The joint has been painted black to prevent light from glowing through the seam:
This will have another taller building (or buildings) behind it that will be basically the flat walls of a kit set up about 1/4" away from the backdrop. Here is the kit I am planning on using:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/150-721
The second kit can be expanded either lengthwise or heightwise, or both if you use more than one kit.
There ready made background kits as well of course but I want something a little different.
One tool you will need, if it hasn't been mentioned, is a steel ruler. Get one that does not have the cork backing so the ruler can sit flat against your work. As has been mentioned, get a good supply of #11 X-acto blades. I bought a bulk pack on eBay so they worked out to only a few cents each. I am no longer tempted to get as much life out of each blade as I possibly can so I don't suffer the messed up cuts that dull blades can produce.
You will need a razor saw or two. Those are the saws with a reinforcing strip along the top of the blade. They make a nice thin cut but you need to concentrate on keeping the cut line straight because they tend to wander, at least mine do. I would suggest getting two, one with a shallow blade and one with a deeper blade and slightly coarser teeth. Here are some examples:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/search?category=Tool&scale=&manu=&item=&keywords=razor+saw&words=restrict&instock=Q&split=30&Submit=Search
Yep...plastic kits
Sounds like your talking from experience. Will follow your advise.
Well Hello Frank...we have talked before.
Thanks for the info. As a matter of fact I got a catalog from them a little while ago and totally forgot about it.
Thanks again
Get some nice big sheets of sandpaper, like 100, 150 and 200 grit, to sand cut edges of kit parts (I keep these flat on the workbench and move the piece across them). Assuming you're working with plastic kits, get some miscellaneous styrene sheet and strip material, including some heavy stuff to reinforce joints. Larger sheets of styrene (like you can get from commerical plastics suppliers) are useful for longer reinforcements and new roofs. You'll eventually need some sandable putty to fill gaps. Various brands work well for this; I like Squadron but there are others.