Elsewhere I've posted about a problem that developed in my little yard as a consequence of applying too much moisture to the quarter-inch or so of Arizona Rock & Mineral Yard Mix: in my quest to get everything thoroughly saturated, I penetrated the sheet of 1/4" plywood I have as a base in the area. It could have been worse had I not used a product with smooth top and bottom, but it still sagged enough that a 30-inch section of track bowed up in the middle, ballast and all. I got good, if conflicting, advice from our friends here about whether to fix it or start over (I've started over, largely because this is a little interchange track and needs to be dead level and smooth for magnetic uncoupling). Apply my experience as you like, keeping in mind that it took days for the problem to show up and more days to partly recover on its own.
I concur with the comments about designing the yard with safety much in mind. At the same time I note that Bill Aldrich's layout (in the Realistic Layouts series on modeling the trackside scene) has some litter on the yard that author Paul Dolkos points out would normally be seen only near a cleanout track. You'll need to balance the correctness of a safety-first yard with the visual appeal of some lading material, spilled grain, and so on. My likely audience--average age seven years old--is not going to care much about prototype practice, but they'll think it's cool to have some broken "glass" or a puddle or a few weeds here and there in the yard. Your audience may prove to be a tougher crowd.
richhotrain Frank, can you say, HO-Velo,mlehman,wp8thsub? Go back and re-read the thread. No one agrees with you. Quit picking on me. Rich
Frank, can you say, HO-Velo,mlehman,wp8thsub? Go back and re-read the thread. No one agrees with you. Quit picking on me.
Rich
Rich,
It wasn't me,,must have been, that, Frankie, guy! Up to his old tricks again.
Cheers,
Frank
Alton Junction
I was disagreeing, with your statement, about sheet cork, not being,porous.
What's everyone else, got to do with that statement?
zstripe Rich, I respectfully, disagree, with you, If he is using, the bulletin board,sheet cork,that is sold in rolls, it is Natural Cork, is durable and Absorbent. You can even get it,in a finer grade, if you like. Been using it for years. Cheers, Frank
I respectfully, disagree, with you, If he is using, the bulletin board,sheet cork,that is sold in rolls, it is Natural Cork, is durable and Absorbent. You can even get it,in a finer grade, if you like. Been using it for years.
LOL
I am trying to imagine why bulletin board cork would be absorbent. Perhaps so that if the student sprays a Coke, it will be easily wiped up.
Frank, if you choose to disagree, you are disagreeing not only with me but everyone else who has responded on this issue. Using a water/glue mix on cork roadbed will not result in the cork swelling.
Actually, a wine bottle cork swells in the bottle as wine fills its pores. That's why you need a corkscrew device to get the cork out of the bottle. A natural cork is porous so it will swell. That's why wines are stored, neck down.
Hobby cork sheet is not natural cork and it is not porous. It is recycled cork, a by-product of the natural cork. For that reason, it can be soaked with water without swelling.
Paul,
You did say, that you are using, flat cork sheeting, for your yard area, so that is not, roadbed, per say. Most cork sheeting, I have ever seen and used, is 1/8 inch thick and light in color, so if you painted it before you laid your track, aside from any potential swelling,it would better match,the rest of, ground area you choose, whether it be ballast, or dirt, missed areas will not show up, as easily.
A Champagne bottle with a cork cap, once removed from same, will swell up considerably, making it near impossible,to get it back in the bottle, once it hits the air.
This is my yard:
The tracks are not elevated on roadbed, so the ballast does not form a mound. I covered the space between the tracks with mostly earth-colored turf, plus a bit of green and some ground foam. In front of the light tower there's a shallow ditch, filled with Envirotex "water" and surrounded with field grass. I also make Hydrocal castings that I mount horizontally to get areas of rock ledge near the tracks.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Paul, This yard sure is clean looking, perhaps too clean and groomed to be represented on a model railroad.
Maybe it was luck, but I didn't seal the Midwest brand cork roadbed that I used on my previous layout and it never buckled, but I did a test with a piece of poster board cork I bought at the five and dime store and it buckled big time, not only that but something in the cork reacted with the glue and gave the ballast a green tint. I suppose all cork is not created equal, at least not for modeling railroad use.
regards, Peter
I think subroadbed was being confused with roadbed. Never had an issue with cork either, and I have a bunch of it. After all, how would the wine stay in the bottle if the cork leaked?
Now, if you do like it good and wet when ballasting and scenicking along the track, yes, painting the subroadbed or simply using an exterior grade subroadbed material will avoid problems with it swelling underneath the cork. But that's a different topic.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Rail yads have compacted dirt so that the employess can walk on them without tripping.
My yard mix consists of sifted real dirt, and dark grey n-scale ballast. About 50/50 mix. I lay it down, then compact it down with the palm of my hands. Then I spray mist it with alcohol/water. Then I use an eyedropper with the white glue mixture.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Back in the day, modelers use to pre-soak cork in a tub of water before installing it as roadbed, so it's hard to imagine that cork roadbed will swell when you ballast on top of it and then apply a water/glue mixture.
peahrensThe track is all down, so I'm past the option of pre-painting the cork to minimize swelling. I had not considered that when track laying...
I've never pre-painted cork, and never had a problem with it swelling during ballasting.
Rob Spangler
Thanks, all, for the suggestions. I'll certainly look at drainage ditches, plus perhaps use N scale cinders between tracks ballasted with HO cinders for the ties/track. Maybe look at mixing in a bit of dirt between the tracks. Then a few weeds, etc.
The track is all down, so I'm past the option of pre-painting the cork to minimize swelling. I had not considered that when track laying...missed that point in earlier reading.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Peahrens,
A lot of good advice, already given, If I may add, hopefully, you did not lay your track yet, It would be wise, to paint the cork first, before, you lay your track, to the color, of your choosing, to prevent, the cork, from swelling, when you apply, your ballast and glue mixture.
Gidday Paul, this may be a bit more than what you want....http://www.shorpy.com/node/9577?size=_original#caption but there might be some more to your taste here.
http://www.shorpy.com/search/node/railroad+yard
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Prototype yards are usually built with the areas between the tracks filled to tie-top level with gravel somewhat finer than that used on the tracks. If the area receives a lot of precipitation there may be French drains under the gravel, their presence given away by manhole covers set in concrete at the main junction boxes.
What happens later is determined by the prosperity (or lack thereof) of the company. I have seen one yard (Conrail during the bankruptcy) where the yard surface was mud into which ballast, gravel and even some rails had disappeared. One track, embargoed by nailing an X of scrap lumber to the switch target, had a sapling growing between the no-longer-visible rails. The whole area had gone to weeds, well-decorated with blown-in wastepaper and dumped trash.
Note that I do NOT recommend that anyone should model a yard that has become all but useless - even as scenery.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Paul, I'm in the same place as you, ready to ballast and detail my yard. I've been looking at a lot of yard photos on the web and as Rob pointed out it seems most yards are fairly level and void of debris, though there are drainage ditches at the perimeters.
The attached photo is a yard that Phillip Anderson the owner of Arizona Rock and Mineral created.
I followed Joe Fugate's advice for ballasting turnouts around the points http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/6802 with the exception of using dental irragation syringes (Monoject 412) to dispence the wetting solution and glue mixture. For me the syringe is more precise and allows much better control than an eyedropper or pippet. 11 turnouts ballasted using this method and so far none stuck, knock on wood.
The first thing I'd suggest is researching prototype photos. The appearance of track and ballast will vary depending on location and era. Sites like RR Picture Archives http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locationList.aspx have a huge supply of photos, but only a relative few show wide views of yards and right of way. The Carr Tracks gallery has some good reference photos here and there http://www.carrtracks.com/gallery.htm .
Normally you won't see a lot of contour variation within a yard, as all the ups and downs present tripping hazards, especially for crews working in the dark. Think safety.
On my modest 5' x 10' or so HO layout I have two yard areas, a 5 track car yard and a 6 track engine service area, both laid on thin cork sheeting (i.e., currently flat). I plan to primarily use ballast, specifically Highland Products cinders in those areas but want to plan ahead on the nuances regarding scenicing.
For instance, I could simply apply the ballast unifomly across each area, then add some texture between the tracks with ground foams, weeds, etc.
Or, before doing anything, I could create some contour by gouging the cork a bit between the tracks or adding a bit of Sculptamold (height).
How do you suggest going about this? Pics would be most helpful
Thanks in advance!